Sir, are you the only one who doesn't understand Eric's answer? I thought his answer was quite simple and directly addressed the question.

The equation was a bonus response :)

Oh don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the equations. But Eric's answer didn't include certain gases in the atmosphere (which are lacking in Martian atmosphere), including water vapor, methane, chlorofluorocarbons, and nitrous oxide which cause global warming as well as carbon dioxide.

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flaming balloons

So why is CO2 causing global warming on Earth, when it is not on Mars, despite there being more CO2 in the atmosphere of Mars?

My answer deleted...

That was a very interesting answer Eric. But it was wrong. The answer is that, whilst CO2 is a contributory factor to global warming, it is not the only factor. There are other factors that are causing global warming on Earth,

I appreciate your attempt to answer the question.

Excuse me? Look at the question "So why is CO2 causing global warming on Earth, when it is not on Mars, despite there being more CO2 in the atmosphere of Mars?"

That's the question I answered. The question had noting to do with other contributory factors. It had to do with CO2 causing warming on Mars. I'm beginning to see why others find conversing with you so frustrating. You repeatedly twist correct answers to questions into wrong answers to questions that weren't even asked. There's a word for that. It begins with 'tr' and ends with 'ling'.

Really? I thought my question was about global warming. What did you think it was about? Equations?

I am afraid that the equations are a fundamental part of the science. If you are really interested in understanding the topic and the science I suggest you go and learn about them.

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Reality Internet Personality

So why is CO2 causing global warming on Earth, when it is not on Mars, despite there being more CO2 in the atmosphere of Mars?

My answer deleted...

That was a very interesting answer Eric. But it was wrong. The answer is that, whilst CO2 is a contributory factor to global warming, it is not the only factor. There are other factors that are causing global warming on Earth,

I appreciate your attempt to answer the question.

Excuse me? Look at the question "So why is CO2 causing global warming on Earth, when it is not on Mars, despite there being more CO2 in the atmosphere of Mars?"

That's the question I answered. The question had noting to do with other contributory factors. It had to do with CO2 causing warming on Mars. I'm beginning to see why others find conversing with you so frustrating. You repeatedly twist correct answers to questions into wrong answers to questions that weren't even asked. There's a word for that. It begins with 'tr' and ends with 'ling'.

Really? I thought my question was about global warming. What did you think it was about? Equations?

Sir, are you the only one who doesn't understand Eric's answer? I thought his answer was quite simple and directly addressed the question.

The equation was a bonus response :)

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So why is CO2 causing global warming on Earth, when it is not on Mars, despite there being more CO2 in the atmosphere of Mars?

My answer deleted...

That was a very interesting answer Eric. But it was wrong. The answer is that, whilst CO2 is a contributory factor to global warming, it is not the only factor. There are other factors that are causing global warming on Earth,

I appreciate your attempt to answer the question.

Excuse me? Look at the question "So why is CO2 causing global warming on Earth, when it is not on Mars, despite there being more CO2 in the atmosphere of Mars?"

That's the question I answered. The question had noting to do with other contributory factors. It had to do with CO2 causing warming on Mars. I'm beginning to see why others find conversing with you so frustrating. You repeatedly twist correct answers to questions into wrong answers to questions that weren't even asked. There's a word for that. It begins with 'tr' and ends with 'ling'.

Really? I thought my question was about global warming. What did you think it was about? Equations?

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flaming balloons

So why is CO2 causing global warming on Earth, when it is not on Mars, despite there being more CO2 in the atmosphere of Mars?

My answer deleted...

That was a very interesting answer Eric. But it was wrong. The answer is that, whilst CO2 is a contributory factor to global warming, it is not the only factor. There are other factors that are causing global warming on Earth,

I appreciate your attempt to answer the question.

Excuse me? Look at the question "So why is CO2 causing global warming on Earth, when it is not on Mars, despite there being more CO2 in the atmosphere of Mars?"

That's the question I answered. The question had noting to do with other contributory factors. It had to do with CO2 causing warming on Mars. I'm beginning to see why others find conversing with you so frustrating. You repeatedly twist correct answers to questions into wrong answers to questions that weren't even asked. There's a word for that. It begins with 'tr' and ends with 'ling'.

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@SETIEric

What you just said didn't make sense. You are mixing all your global warming arguments up and trying to confuse people.

Now take a look at Venus if you want to see the effect CO2 has on temperature.

It doesn't make sense? Really? You should consider retiring if you are getting senile.

Getting personally insulting will not conceal the fact that you are wrong and clearly don't know what you are talking about.

My only concern is that there are people out there who's understanding of science is limited and who might be taken in by you. :(

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Reality Internet Personality

So why is CO2 causing global warming on Earth, when it is not on Mars, despite there being more CO2 in the atmosphere of Mars?

Actually the greenhouse effect does cause significant warming on Mars. It's fairly easy to calculate the temperature that Mars would have without an atmosphere. The appropriate formula is simply

R_sun^2 T_sun^4 / d_mars^2 = 4*e_mars * T_mars^4 / (1 - a_mars)

or

T_mars=T_sun * sqrt(R_sun/(4*d_mars)*sqrt((1-a_mars)/e_mars))

where R_sun is the radius of the sun, T_sun is the effective photospheric temperature of the sun, d_mars is the distance from Mars to the sun, e_mars is the IR emissivity of mars, a_mars is the martian effective albedo, and T_mars is the martian surface temperature. Any freshman physics major can derive this for you.

Now for values: The solar temperature is 5785K, the radius of the sun is 0.696 million km, the mean distance from mars to the sun is 228 million km. The martian albedo is 0.15, and the IR emissivity is going to be larger than 1-a because nonmetallic solids tend to emit and absorb in the IR better than they do in the visible. Let's call it 0.95.

So the mean surface temperature of mars should be 155 Kelvin. The mean surface temperature is 210K, a difference of 55K. The most reasonable explanation is that the IR emissivity of Mars is less than would be expected. If you try to back substitute, you get that the Martian IR emissivity is about 0.28. In other words, mars radiates about 30% as much infrared energy as it should given its surface temperature. That is primarily because of the CO2 in its atmosphere.

Eric

That was a very interesting answer Eric. But it was wrong. The answer is that, whilst CO2 is a contributory factor to global warming, it is not the only factor. There are other factors that are causing global warming on Earth, but which are not causing global warming to the effect that it is raising temperatures on Mars as dramatically as Earth. For example, chlorofluorocarbons, of which there is none in the Martian atmosphere, and water vapor, of which there is none in the Martian atmosphere. As well as a whole host of other elements which are in the Earth's atmosphere, but which are not in the Martian atmosphere.

I appreciate your attempt to answer the question.

What you just said didn't make sense. You are mixing all your global warming arguments up and trying to confuse people.

Now take a look at Venus if you want to see the effect CO2 has on temperature.

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Reality Internet Personality

So why is CO2 causing global warming on Earth, when it is not on Mars, despite there being more CO2 in the atmosphere of Mars?

Actually the greenhouse effect does cause significant warming on Mars. It's fairly easy to calculate the temperature that Mars would have without an atmosphere. The appropriate formula is simply

R_sun^2 T_sun^4 / d_mars^2 = 4*e_mars * T_mars^4 / (1 - a_mars)

or

T_mars=T_sun * sqrt(R_sun/(4*d_mars)*sqrt((1-a_mars)/e_mars))

where R_sun is the radius of the sun, T_sun is the effective photospheric temperature of the sun, d_mars is the distance from Mars to the sun, e_mars is the IR emissivity of mars, a_mars is the martian effective albedo, and T_mars is the martian surface temperature. Any freshman physics major can derive this for you.

Now for values: The solar temperature is 5785K, the radius of the sun is 0.696 million km, the mean distance from mars to the sun is 228 million km. The martian albedo is 0.15, and the IR emissivity is going to be larger than 1-a because nonmetallic solids tend to emit and absorb in the IR better than they do in the visible. Let's call it 0.95.

So the mean surface temperature of mars should be 155 Kelvin. The mean surface temperature is 210K, a difference of 55K. The most reasonable explanation is that the IR emissivity of Mars is less than would be expected. If you try to back substitute, you get that the Martian IR emissivity is about 0.28. In other words, mars radiates about 30% as much infrared energy as it should given its surface temperature. That is primarily because of the CO2 in its atmosphere.

Eric

That was a very interesting answer Eric. But it was wrong. The answer is that, whilst CO2 is a contributory factor to global warming, it is not the only factor. There are other factors that are causing global warming on Earth, but which are not causing global warming to the effect that it is raising temperatures on Mars as dramatically as Earth. For example, chlorofluorocarbons, of which there is none in the Martian atmosphere, and water vapor, of which there is none in the Martian atmosphere. As well as a whole host of other elements which are in the Earth's atmosphere, but which are not in the Martian atmosphere.

I appreciate your attempt to answer the question.

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flaming balloons

So why is CO2 causing global warming on Earth, when it is not on Mars, despite there being more CO2 in the atmosphere of Mars?

Actually the greenhouse effect does cause significant warming on Mars. It's fairly easy to calculate the temperature that Mars would have without an atmosphere. The appropriate formula is simply

R_sun^2 T_sun^4 / d_mars^2 = 4*e_mars * T_mars^4 / (1 - a_mars)

or

T_mars=T_sun * sqrt(R_sun/(4*d_mars)*sqrt((1-a_mars)/e_mars))

where R_sun is the radius of the sun, T_sun is the effective photospheric temperature of the sun, d_mars is the distance from Mars to the sun, e_mars is the IR emissivity of mars, a_mars is the martian effective albedo, and T_mars is the martian surface temperature. Any freshman physics major can derive this for you.

Now for values: The solar temperature is 5785K, the radius of the sun is 0.696 million km, the mean distance from mars to the sun is 228 million km. The martian albedo is 0.15, and the IR emissivity is going to be larger than 1-a because nonmetallic solids tend to emit and absorb in the IR better than they do in the visible. Let's call it 0.95.

So the mean surface temperature of mars should be 155 Kelvin. The mean surface temperature is 210K, a difference of 55K. The most reasonable explanation is that the IR emissivity of Mars is less than would be expected. If you try to back substitute, you get that the Martian IR emissivity is about 0.28. In other words, mars radiates about 30% as much infrared energy as it should given its surface temperature. That is primarily because of the CO2 in its atmosphere.

Eric

Thanks Eric, I tried to keep it more simple...perhaps not enough. Your post was quite accurate and most enlightening. Very clear and concise.

He said the same thing you did but fancier ;-)

I'll take that as a compliment coming from a physics instructor.

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Account frozen...

So why is CO2 causing global warming on Earth, when it is not on Mars, despite there being more CO2 in the atmosphere of Mars?

Actually the greenhouse effect does cause significant warming on Mars. It's fairly easy to calculate the temperature that Mars would have without an atmosphere. The appropriate formula is simply

R_sun^2 T_sun^4 / d_mars^2 = 4*e_mars * T_mars^4 / (1 - a_mars)

or

T_mars=T_sun * sqrt(R_sun/(4*d_mars)*sqrt((1-a_mars)/e_mars))

where R_sun is the radius of the sun, T_sun is the effective photospheric temperature of the sun, d_mars is the distance from Mars to the sun, e_mars is the IR emissivity of mars, a_mars is the martian effective albedo, and T_mars is the martian surface temperature. Any freshman physics major can derive this for you.

Now for values: The solar temperature is 5785K, the radius of the sun is 0.696 million km, the mean distance from mars to the sun is 228 million km. The martian albedo is 0.15, and the IR emissivity is going to be larger than 1-a because nonmetallic solids tend to emit and absorb in the IR better than they do in the visible. Let's call it 0.95.

So the mean surface temperature of mars should be 155 Kelvin. The mean surface temperature is 210K, a difference of 55K. The most reasonable explanation is that the IR emissivity of Mars is less than would be expected. If you try to back substitute, you get that the Martian IR emissivity is about 0.28. In other words, mars radiates about 30% as much infrared energy as it should given its surface temperature. That is primarily because of the CO2 in its atmosphere.

Eric

Thanks Eric, I tried to keep it more simple...perhaps not enough. Your post was quite accurate and most enlightening. Very clear and concise.

He said the same thing you did but fancier ;-)

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Reality Internet Personality

So why is CO2 causing global warming on Earth, when it is not on Mars, despite there being more CO2 in the atmosphere of Mars?

Actually the greenhouse effect does cause significant warming on Mars. It's fairly easy to calculate the temperature that Mars would have without an atmosphere. The appropriate formula is simply

R_sun^2 T_sun^4 / d_mars^2 = 4*e_mars * T_mars^4 / (1 - a_mars)

or

T_mars=T_sun * sqrt(R_sun/(4*d_mars)*sqrt((1-a_mars)/e_mars))

where R_sun is the radius of the sun, T_sun is the effective photospheric temperature of the sun, d_mars is the distance from Mars to the sun, e_mars is the IR emissivity of mars, a_mars is the martian effective albedo, and T_mars is the martian surface temperature. Any freshman physics major can derive this for you.

Now for values: The solar temperature is 5785K, the radius of the sun is 0.696 million km, the mean distance from mars to the sun is 228 million km. The martian albedo is 0.15, and the IR emissivity is going to be larger than 1-a because nonmetallic solids tend to emit and absorb in the IR better than they do in the visible. Let's call it 0.95.

So the mean surface temperature of mars should be 155 Kelvin. The mean surface temperature is 210K, a difference of 55K. The most reasonable explanation is that the IR emissivity of Mars is less than would be expected. If you try to back substitute, you get that the Martian IR emissivity is about 0.28. In other words, mars radiates about 30% as much infrared energy as it should given its surface temperature. That is primarily because of the CO2 in its atmosphere.

Eric

Thanks Eric, I tried to keep it more simple...perhaps not enough. Your post was quite accurate and most enlightening. Very clear and concise.

And then there's always the planet Venus...you want global warming on a hellish scale...

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Account frozen...

So why is CO2 causing global warming on Earth, when it is not on Mars, despite there being more CO2 in the atmosphere of Mars?

Actually the greenhouse effect does cause significant warming on Mars. It's fairly easy to calculate the temperature that Mars would have without an atmosphere. The appropriate formula is simply

R_sun^2 T_sun^4 / d_mars^2 = 4*e_mars * T_mars^4 / (1 - a_mars)

or

T_mars=T_sun * sqrt(R_sun/(4*d_mars)*sqrt((1-a_mars)/e_mars))

where R_sun is the radius of the sun, T_sun is the effective photospheric temperature of the sun, d_mars is the distance from Mars to the sun, e_mars is the IR emissivity of mars, a_mars is the martian effective albedo, and T_mars is the martian surface temperature. Any freshman physics major can derive this for you.

Now for values: The solar temperature is 5785K, the radius of the sun is 0.696 million km, the mean distance from mars to the sun is 228 million km. The martian albedo is 0.15, and the IR emissivity is going to be larger than 1-a because nonmetallic solids tend to emit and absorb in the IR better than they do in the visible. Let's call it 0.95.

So the mean surface temperature of mars should be 155 Kelvin. The mean surface temperature is 210K, a difference of 55K. The most reasonable explanation is that the IR emissivity of Mars is less than would be expected. If you try to back substitute, you get that the Martian IR emissivity is about 0.28. In other words, mars radiates about 30% as much infrared energy as it should given its surface temperature. That is primarily because of the CO2 in its atmosphere.

Eric

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@SETIEric

China fails environment targets

"China is failing to meet new targets on energy efficiency and pollution emissions, officials said."

"The BBC's Dan Griffiths, in Beijing, says much of China's airborne pollution comes from large coal-burning power stations and car exhaust fumes, neither of which can be reduced quickly.

Many factories also ignore the law and pump toxic waste into rivers and lakes.

And with the country still focused on breakneck economic growth, there is little sign that things are going to get better any time soon, our correspondent says.

Another senior officials said the situation was worse than ever.

"2006 has been the most grim year for China's environmental situation," vice-minister Pan Yue was quoted as saying on the Web site of the State Environmental Protection Administration (Sepa)."

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flaming balloons

Here’s a question somebody may like to answer. Some people were discussing Mars on BBC Radio 4 this morning as I drove into work. They said the atmosphere on Mars is much thinner than on Earth, less 1 in 100 parts thinner. However, 96% of Mars atmosphere is CO2, and the total amount of CO2 in Mars atmosphere is greater than the amount in Earths atmosphere. Yet there is no Global Warming on Mars; temperatures remain very cold.

So why is CO2 causing global warming on Earth, when it is not on Mars, despite there being more CO2 in the atmosphere of Mars?

The atmospheric density is a mere small fraction of the Earth's and Mars is much further from the sun.

But almost all of the atmosphere of Mars consists of CO2. The amount of CO2 that Mars has is more than the amount that Earth has.

So are you saying that Climate Change is caused by the distance from the Sun? And has nothing to do with the the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere?

I'm not qualified to teach special ed. so I'm going to let someone else answer that question for you.

In other words you have no idea about the cause of global warming, or what extent CO2 has on it, if any?

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flaming balloons

Here’s a question somebody may like to answer. Some people were discussing Mars on BBC Radio 4 this morning as I drove into work. They said the atmosphere on Mars is much thinner than on Earth, less 1 in 100 parts thinner. However, 96% of Mars atmosphere is CO2, and the total amount of CO2 in Mars atmosphere is greater than the amount in Earths atmosphere. Yet there is no Global Warming on Mars; temperatures remain very cold.

So why is CO2 causing global warming on Earth, when it is not on Mars, despite there being more CO2 in the atmosphere of Mars?

The atmospheric density is a mere small fraction of the Earth's and Mars is much further from the sun.

But almost all of the atmosphere of Mars consists of CO2. The amount of CO2 that Mars has is more than the amount that Earth has.

So are you saying that Climate Change is caused by the distance from the Sun? And has nothing to do with the the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere?

I'm not qualified to teach special ed. so I'm going to let someone else answer that question for you.

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Account frozen...

Here’s a question somebody may like to answer. Some people were discussing Mars on BBC Radio 4 this morning as I drove into work. They said the atmosphere on Mars is much thinner than on Earth, less 1 in 100 parts thinner. However, 96% of Mars atmosphere is CO2, and the total amount of CO2 in Mars atmosphere is greater than the amount in Earths atmosphere. Yet there is no Global Warming on Mars; temperatures remain very cold.

So why is CO2 causing global warming on Earth, when it is not on Mars, despite there being more CO2 in the atmosphere of Mars?

The atmospheric density is a mere small fraction of the Earth's and Mars is much further from the sun.

But almost all of the atmosphere of Mars consists of CO2. The amount of CO2 that Mars has is more than the amount that Earth has.

So are you saying that Climate Change is caused by the distance from the Sun? And has nothing to do with the the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere?

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flaming balloons

Here’s a question somebody may like to answer. Some people were discussing Mars on BBC Radio 4 this morning as I drove into work. They said the atmosphere on Mars is much thinner than on Earth, less 1 in 100 parts thinner. However, 96% of Mars atmosphere is CO2, and the total amount of CO2 in Mars atmosphere is greater than the amount in Earths atmosphere. Yet there is no Global Warming on Mars; temperatures remain very cold.

So why is CO2 causing global warming on Earth, when it is not on Mars, despite there being more CO2 in the atmosphere of Mars?

The atmospheric density is a mere small fraction (00.7%) of the Earth's and Mars is much further from the sun, ergo getting expedentally far less heat to the difference of the distance. Fifth or sixth grade elementary school level stuff.

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Account frozen...

Here’s a question somebody may like to answer. Some people were discussing Mars on BBC Radio 4 this morning as I drove into work. They said the atmosphere on Mars is much thinner than on Earth, less 1 in 100 parts thinner. However, 96% of Mars atmosphere is CO2, and the total amount of CO2 in Mars atmosphere is greater than the amount in Earths atmosphere. Yet there is no Global Warming on Mars; temperatures remain very cold.

So why is CO2 causing global warming on Earth, when it is not on Mars, despite there being more CO2 in the atmosphere of Mars?

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flaming balloons

Chrysler questions climate change

"Chrysler's chief economist Van Jolissaint has launched a fierce attack on "quasi-hysterical Europeans" and their "Chicken Little" attitudes to global warming."

"Mr Jolissaint was particularly scathing about the Stern Report, which was recently published by the UK government.

The report urged governments to take urgent action now to tackle climate change, arguing that it would be much cheaper to act, rather than face the $10 trillion cost of not doing anything until later.

Mr Jolissaint said the report was based on dubious economics, did not include a discount rate, and was written by an informal adviser to Gordon Brown - in fact, at the time of the report, Mr Stern was the Second Permanent Secretary at the UK Treasury.

He said that he had been surprised by how much support there had been in the Daimler office in Stuttgart for these "quasi-hysterical" policies that smacked of "Chicken Little" politics - referring to the US children's story in which Chicken Little runs around in circles saying "the sky is falling".

If nothing else, Mr Jolissaint's remarks illustrate the yawning gap between mainstream opinion on climate change among the educated elites of Europe and America."

The key word here is "economist." Or perhaps you'd like to quote one of the scientists that have been receiving direct contributions from the oil industry as proof in your rebuttals? I'd suggest that you chose your sources a little more carefully and be prepared to back them up. Using an economist directly employeed by a major automoblie manufacturing company who's products are a major source of pollution and green house gases is laughable at best if not downright hysterical.

I would posit that choosing a source directly supported by organizations which stand to gain from massive "global warming" spending is equally laughable.

I would also state that you should be prepared to back up conclusions and recommendations from any source. No one is exempt from laughability in this debate.

Chrysler questions climate change

"Chrysler's chief economist Van Jolissaint has launched a fierce attack on "quasi-hysterical Europeans" and their "Chicken Little" attitudes to global warming."

"Mr Jolissaint was particularly scathing about the Stern Report, which was recently published by the UK government.

The report urged governments to take urgent action now to tackle climate change, arguing that it would be much cheaper to act, rather than face the $10 trillion cost of not doing anything until later.

Mr Jolissaint said the report was based on dubious economics, did not include a discount rate, and was written by an informal adviser to Gordon Brown - in fact, at the time of the report, Mr Stern was the Second Permanent Secretary at the UK Treasury.

He said that he had been surprised by how much support there had been in the Daimler office in Stuttgart for these "quasi-hysterical" policies that smacked of "Chicken Little" politics - referring to the US children's story in which Chicken Little runs around in circles saying "the sky is falling".

If nothing else, Mr Jolissaint's remarks illustrate the yawning gap between mainstream opinion on climate change among the educated elites of Europe and America."

The key word here is "economist." Or perhaps you'd like to quote one of the scientists that have been receiving direct contributions from the oil industry as proof in your rebuttals? I'd suggest that you chose your sources a little more carefully and be prepared to back them up. Using an economist directly employeed by a major automoblie manufacturing company who's products are a major source of pollution and green house gases is laughable at best if not downright hysterical.

I am merely repeating some interesting information in the press today. What you make of it is up to you, but I would go mock at those quoted by the BBC; they are neither my words and niether should you be so foolish in trying to suggest I draw any conclusions - I have added no opinion of my own here.

Is this a concerted effort of yours to be vidictive and targeting, or are you flaunting the fact that you are a moderator and can mock at will?

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flaming balloons