Chrysler questions climate change

"Chrysler's chief economist Van Jolissaint has launched a fierce attack on "quasi-hysterical Europeans" and their "Chicken Little" attitudes to global warming."

"Mr Jolissaint was particularly scathing about the Stern Report, which was recently published by the UK government.

The report urged governments to take urgent action now to tackle climate change, arguing that it would be much cheaper to act, rather than face the $10 trillion cost of not doing anything until later.

Mr Jolissaint said the report was based on dubious economics, did not include a discount rate, and was written by an informal adviser to Gordon Brown - in fact, at the time of the report, Mr Stern was the Second Permanent Secretary at the UK Treasury.

He said that he had been surprised by how much support there had been in the Daimler office in Stuttgart for these "quasi-hysterical" policies that smacked of "Chicken Little" politics - referring to the US children's story in which Chicken Little runs around in circles saying "the sky is falling".

If nothing else, Mr Jolissaint's remarks illustrate the yawning gap between mainstream opinion on climate change among the educated elites of Europe and America."

The key word here is "economist." Or perhaps you'd like to quote one of the scientists that have been receiving direct contributions from the oil industry as proof in your rebuttals? I'd suggest that you chose your sources a little more carefully and be prepared to back them up. Using an economist directly employeed by a major automoblie manufacturing company who's products are a major source of pollution and green house gases is laughable at best if not downright hysterical.

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Chrysler questions climate change

"Chrysler's chief economist Van Jolissaint has launched a fierce attack on "quasi-hysterical Europeans" and their "Chicken Little" attitudes to global warming."

"Mr Jolissaint was particularly scathing about the Stern Report, which was recently published by the UK government.

The report urged governments to take urgent action now to tackle climate change, arguing that it would be much cheaper to act, rather than face the $10 trillion cost of not doing anything until later.

Mr Jolissaint said the report was based on dubious economics, did not include a discount rate, and was written by an informal adviser to Gordon Brown - in fact, at the time of the report, Mr Stern was the Second Permanent Secretary at the UK Treasury.

He said that he had been surprised by how much support there had been in the Daimler office in Stuttgart for these "quasi-hysterical" policies that smacked of "Chicken Little" politics - referring to the US children's story in which Chicken Little runs around in circles saying "the sky is falling".

If nothing else, Mr Jolissaint's remarks illustrate the yawning gap between mainstream opinion on climate change among the educated elites of Europe and America."

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flaming balloons

I'm off for a few days to enjoy the beach while it's still there. Last time we went, the high tides covered the whole beach, which is not a common occurance.

Since the USA is responsible for much of the greenhouse gas output, is it not a damming indictment that the US Gov has only recently acknowledged the connection between Climate Change and El Nino when it has been a factor discussed with great interest and high profile by many scientists? What is the point of saying, "here is the evidence, let us base all our corrective actions on this so-called evidence, when important factors such as El Nino have been ignored in discussions on what to do about possible impending disasters?

I would be more worried for the millions who will be unable to feed themselves due to the changes in climate affecting ability to grow crops.

We can't do much about El Nino. But we could use the principle of prudent avoidance and reduce our greenhouse gases emissions, for instance by recurring to solar energy sources. Germany has about ten times the amount of photovoltaic power production compared to Italy and there is more sunlight flowing upon Italy than Germany. But our Government is only worried abot methane gas imports, and we are dependent on the likes of Putin and Ghaddafi for our electric power production, since we foolishly abandoned nuclear plants.
Tullio

I have been against the use of nuclear power given the Chernobyl experience, risks from terrorist attacks on NPP and terrorist abuse, safety, and cost of dealing with the contaminated waste. However, I do recognize that if these 'objections' were overcome, nuclear could provide the energy we need for the future, and more importantly, could be the only energy available that could help us conquer the stars.

The EU today has unveiled plans for an EU 'industrial revolution'. "The EU's civil service wants more investment in renewable energy, arguing that the old fuels have a political as well as clear environmental cost." The conflicts between obtaining enough energy, and the demands to resolve Climate Change issues are beginning to bite.

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Since the USA is responsible for much of the greenhouse gas output, is it not a damming indictment that the US Gov has only recently acknowledged the connection between Climate Change and El Nino when it has been a factor discussed with great interest and high profile by many scientists? What is the point of saying, "here is the evidence, let us base all our corrective actions on this so-called evidence, when important factors such as El Nino have been ignored in discussions on what to do about possible impending disasters?

I would be more worried for the millions who will be unable to feed themselves due to the changes in climate affecting ability to grow crops.

We can't do much about El Nino. But we could use the principle of prudent avoidance and reduce our greenhouse gases emissions, for instance by recurring to solar energy sources. Germany has about ten times the amount of photovoltaic power production compared to Italy and there is more sunlight flowing upon Italy than Germany. But our Government is only worried abot methane gas imports, and we are dependent on the likes of Putin and Ghaddafi for our electric power production, since we foolishly abandoned nuclear plants.
Tullio

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This is a very important point. El Niño has not been considered in the climate change considerations by some. It could well be a combination of factors that are making for a potentially world damaging climate scenario in the future. But El Niño is not man made, and we don't know how much affect this has on climate change, or other factors that have not yet been considered. So how can we say "this is the evidence" when clearly there is conjecture amongst unconsidered factors.

I agree on El Nino. But, as the NYTimes points out, for the first time a US Gov agency speaks of a connection between greenhouse gases and global warming.

Since the USA is responsible for much of the greenhouse gas output, is it not a damming indictment that the US Gov has only recently acknowledged the connection between Climate Change and El Nino when it has been a factor discussed with great interest and high profile by many scientists? What is the point of saying, "here is the evidence, let us base all our corrective actions on this so-called evidence, when important factors such as El Nino have been ignored in discussions on what to do about possible impending disasters?

As a secondary argument, lack of snow on the Alps is a potential economic disaster for the Alpine countries (France, Switzerland, Italy, Austria and Slovenia).
Tullio

Of course it is. I would be more worried for the millions who will be unable to feed themselves due to the changes in climate affecting ability to grow crops.

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This just in from CNN:

2006 was warmest on record for U.S.
POSTED: 2:39 a.m. EST, January 10, 2007

• NEW: 2006 was the warmest on record for the U.S.
• National Climatic Data Center: Average temp was 55 degrees
• 2006 was sixth warmest year on record worldwide
• Experts unsure what is causing the unusual weather
Adjust font size:


WASHINGTON (AP) -- Last year was the warmest on record for the United States, with temperature readings pushing higher than normal during the last half of December.

Preliminary data from the National Climatic Data Center listed the average temperature for the 48 contiguous states last year as 55 degrees Fahrenheit.

That's 2.2 degrees warmer than average and 0.07 degree warmer than 1998, the previous warmest year on record.

Worldwide, the agency said, it was the sixth warmest year on record.

In December the Center had predicted that 2006 would be the United States' third warmest year, but unusual readings later that month pushed the year into first place.

The Center said it is not clear how much of the warming is a result of greenhouse-gas induced climate change and how much resulted from the current El Nino warming of the tropical Pacific Ocean.

El Nino conditions occur every few years in the Pacific and can affect climate around the world, including producing warmer conditions in the United States.

The average U.S. and global temperature are both about 1 degree warmer than at the start of the 20th century, a change many scientists attribute to gases released into the atmosphere by industrial processes.

The temperature data was collected from a network of more than 1,200 stations across the country.

The climate center said the unusual warmth in early winter reduced residential energy needs by 13.5 percent compared to average conditions for the season.

While December started cold, spring-like conditions reigned in the eastern states during the last half of the month, making it the nation's fourth warmest December.

Five states had their warmest December on record -- Minnesota, New York, Connecticut, Vermont and New Hampshire.

No state was colder than average in December.

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I'm just having Fun With Global Warming. What are you doing?

I booked a one week stay in a hotel to go cross country skiing and THERE IS NO SNOW on the Alps!
Tullio

We've got all you need in Colorado, USA.

Isn't that the truth...and New England is seeing unseasonably warm temperatures...I believe they may be breaking records for the last several hundred thousand years...since as I remember when I lived there just 12 years ago it was like 20 degrees this time of year. I heard they are flocking to the beaches out there.

Yup. Here in Ohio, we've hit an all this winter low.... 23 degrees. And further more it's snowed the first time this winter! Looks like about 1/2 inch outside. Go figure.

edit: BTW didn't you mean 20 BELOW zero?

No it was an unusually warm year then too...

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This is a very important point. El Niño has not been considered in the climate change considerations by some. It could well be a combination of factors that are making for a potentially world damaging climate scenario in the future. But El Niño is not man made, and we don't know how much affect this has on climate change, or other factors that have not yet been considered. So how can we say "this is the evidence" when clearly there is conjecture amongst unconsidered factors.

I agree on El Nino. But, as the NYTimes points out, for the first time a US Gov agency speaks of a connection between greenhouse gases and global warming. As a secondary argument, lack of snow on the Alps is a potential economic disaster for the Alpine countries (France, Switzerland, Italy, Austria and Slovenia).
Tullio

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Others do differ. That is the nature of science in the real world.

Here is a quotation from the NOAA report cited in the New York Times:

The unusually warm start to this winter reflected the rarity of Arctic outbreaks across the country as an El Niño episode continued in the equatorial Pacific. A contributing factor to the unusually warm temperatures throughout 2006 also is the long-term warming trend, which has been linked to increases in greenhouse gases. This has made warmer-than-average conditions more common in the U.S. and other parts of the world. It is unclear how much of the recent anomalous warmth was due to greenhouse-gas-induced warming and how much was due to the El Niño-related circulation pattern. It is known that El Niño is playing a major role in this winter's short-term warm period.

Tullio

This is a very important point. El Niño has not been considered in the climate change considerations by some. It could well be a combination of factors that are making for a potentially world damaging climate scenario in the future. But El Niño is not man made, and we don't know how much affect this has on climate change, or other factors that have not yet been considered. So how can we say "this is the evidence" when clearly there is conjecture amongst unconsidered factors.

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flaming balloons

I'm just having Fun With Global Warming. What are you doing?

I booked a one week stay in a hotel to go cross country skiing and THERE IS NO SNOW on the Alps!
Tullio

We've got all you need in Colorado, USA.

Isn't that the truth...and New England is seeing unseasonably warm temperatures...I believe they may be breaking records for the last several hundred thousand years...since as I remember when I lived there just 12 years ago it was like 20 degrees this time of year. I heard they are flocking to the beaches out there.

Yup. Here in Ohio, we've hit an all this winter low.... 23 degrees. And further more it's snowed the first time this winter! Looks like about 1/2 inch outside. Go figure.

edit: BTW didn't you mean 20 BELOW zero?

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Account frozen...

I'm just having Fun With Global Warming. What are you doing?

I booked a one week stay in a hotel to go cross country skiing and THERE IS NO SNOW on the Alps!
Tullio

We've got all you need in Colorado, USA.

Isn't that the truth...and New England is seeing unseasonably warm temperatures...I believe they may be breaking records for the last several hundred thousand years...since as I remember when I lived there just 12 years ago it was like 20 degrees this time of year. I heard they are flocking to the beaches out there.

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I'm just having Fun With Global Warming. What are you doing?

I booked a one week stay in a hotel to go cross country skiing and THERE IS NO SNOW on the Alps!
Tullio

We've got all you need in Colorado, USA.

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Account frozen...

I'm just having Fun With Global Warming. What are you doing?

I booked a one week stay in a hotel to go cross country skiing and THERE IS NO SNOW on the Alps!
Tullio

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Others do differ. That is the nature of science in the real world.

Here is a quotation from the NOAA report cited in the New York Times:

The unusually warm start to this winter reflected the rarity of Arctic outbreaks across the country as an El Niño episode continued in the equatorial Pacific. A contributing factor to the unusually warm temperatures throughout 2006 also is the long-term warming trend, which has been linked to increases in greenhouse gases. This has made warmer-than-average conditions more common in the U.S. and other parts of the world. It is unclear how much of the recent anomalous warmth was due to greenhouse-gas-induced warming and how much was due to the El Niño-related circulation pattern. It is known that El Niño is playing a major role in this winter's short-term warm period.

Tullio

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iX,

You need to put up or shut up. Please provide proof of your arguments. Or even respond to this message.

Paul.

I don't need to say anything except "where is the evidence?" As to your diagrams - that is all they are, diagrams. Not evidence.

That is the same mind set as the Catholic church during the 16th century.

Oh, they were accusing Man of Climate Change then were they?

Did they use meaningless graphs as well?

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flaming balloons

iX,

You need to put up or shut up. Please provide proof of your arguments. Or even respond to this message.

Paul.

I don't need to say anything except "where is the evidence?" As to your diagrams - that is all they are, diagrams. Not evidence.

That is the same mind set as the Catholic church during the 16th century.

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Account frozen...

iX,

You need to put up or shut up. Please provide proof of your arguments. Or even respond to this message.

Paul.

I don't need to say anything except "where is the evidence?" As to your diagrams - that is all they are, diagrams. Not evidence.

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flaming balloons

iX,

You need to put up or shut up. Please provide proof of your arguments. Or even respond to this message.

Paul.

Late in this cruel season when the sun
scourges alike the city and the fields,
parching the stubble and sinking into slums
where shuttered hovels hide vile appetites,
I venture out alone to drill myself
in what must seem an eerie fencing-match,
dueling in dark corners for a rhyme
and stumbling over words like cobblestones
where now and then realities collide
with lines I dreamed of deleting long ago.

I think you've gone barmey mate

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flaming balloons