The next time you look at BoincDV, the numbers will be different, and the signs reversed. I've got it and look just to watch the numbers dance around each other.

MJ did you know that boincview displays the numbers on it's projects tab in a more live fasion (getting the data from the RPC to the client)
if you're really interested in knowing what your client is doing BV is very helpful :)

Yes, but I haven't been that interested! <g> When I've looked at BV, it's been too busy to my eyes, so I prefer the combo of BOINC Manager and BoincDV to sate my curiousity.

also the highest/lowest values for STD will be influenced by your app switching time, the longer before it switches, the more debt is built up

Also the relative resource shares, which also affect how long it takes for a project to get back up to the top of the list for processing.

there's actually a limit for STD (i hit it a while ago) of 86400 seconds (1 day)
i'm not sure about LTD, i've had numbers over a 1.5 million before (on the negative side i think)

I know I nudged close to 1 million, and it may have gone over when I wasn't watching. That's down to 48,000 now, and CPDN is about -49,000. I know it won't download more work if the LTD is less than -3600, which is my switching time.

As I said, I like to watch the numbers dance. 8-)

MJ

---

The next time you look at BoincDV, the numbers will be different, and the signs reversed. I've got it and look just to watch the numbers dance around each other.

MJ did you know that boincview displays the numbers on it's projects tab in a more live fasion (getting the data from the RPC to the client)
if you're really interested in knowing what your client is doing BV is very helpful :)

also the highest/lowest values for STD will be influenced by your app switching time, the longer before it switches, the more debt is built up

there's actually a limit for STD (i hit it a while ago) of 86400 seconds (1 day)
i'm not sure about LTD, i've had numbers over a 1.5 million before (on the negative side i think)

---

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BTW: I tried the boincdv again and it shows S@H=727 and E@H=-727 (or something like that). I wanted to reset the LTD but I get a dialog box title FooBlar!
and a long list of files. Which file(s) do I choose?

right, incase you don't know, the numbers means that S@H is "owed" time, compared to E@H (E@H has probably done a lot of work recently, or your resource shares say that S@H should do more work than E@H)

And, those numbers are in seconds, so the debt of +/-727 is all of 12 minutes. The next time you look at BoincDV, the numbers will be different, and the signs reversed. I've got it and look just to watch the numbers dance around each other. Seven of my projects are currently active (got one that doesn't show below yet, just started QMC), the short term debt doesn't go much beyond 2000, though the LTD for SETI right now, because of previous outages, is over 45,000. It'll keep getting work as long as it's available, and other projects will occasionally run out and not download for a bit even if work is available.

MJ

---

That could be true. I had a small(er) cache for a long time. Enough to keep 5 or 6 WUs for S@H and E@H. When I attached to that BBC Climate prediction project, there were that many WUs still hanging around. Well...everything got a 1/3 resource share after that and so took longer to work through the cached WUs. I "suspect" that my shorter cache time coupled with the one year time for the BBC WU got me tangled in STD/LTD/Cache confusion. BOINC was probably behaving like it should. Unfortunately the Boinc customers didn't play well together. The BBC site says "Let's Do IT!" or something like that... No mention of inter-project interactions. Anyway, I detached from that pesky BBC year-long project (dumb idea...) and everything is is fine now.

Actually, the whole STD/LTD/Cache confusion thing is a perception problem, not a real problem.

As you said, you have 1/3rd of the resources going to each project, and some really long work units.

If BOINC kept some work from every project, it would end up with a dilemma: do I work on this work unit that might go past-due, or do I work on this other work unit that hasn't received a fair share of time?

At first glance, it seems like a bug, but that's because we all tend to take a short-term view. Left alone, you'd see it work on the BBC project for a while, then start doing Einstein and SETI.

---

That could be true. I had a small(er) cache for a long time. Enough to keep 5 or 6 WUs for S@H and E@H. When I attached to that BBC Climate prediction project, there were that many WUs still hanging around. Well...everything got a 1/3 resource share after that and so took longer to work through the cached WUs. I "suspect" that my shorter cache time coupled with the one year time for the BBC WU got me tangled in STD/LTD/Cache confusion. BOINC was probably behaving like it should. Unfortunately the Boinc customers didn't play well together. The BBC site says "Let's Do IT!" or something like that... No mention of inter-project interactions. Anyway, I detached from that pesky BBC year-long project (dumb idea...) and everything is is fine now.

---

Well...it's working again. I detached from the BBC project. I suspect something got hosed up in the LTD calculations. Anyway, a year-long WU is just not interesting. I set/reset my cache size and now S@H is running fine with WUs in the cache. E@H still has only 1 WU and it's running. We'll see what happens when it runs out. I did an update on E@H after messing with the cache size but still no cached WUs for E@H. Well see...inquiring minds want to know...

just a hunch, but have you set your general prefs to only keep a small cache
it's just that i see that behaviour with my clients (but it's what i expect to happen) i have a very small cache (i run multiple projects, and always have an internet connection) and my clients go thru phases of having work for each project, like last month, one had loads of SETI beta work, now this month it has none and is doing lots for other projects, so it evens out over time

BTW: I tried the boincdv again and it shows S@H=727 and E@H=-727 (or something like that). I wanted to reset the LTD but I get a dialog box title FooBlar!
and a long list of files. Which file(s) do I choose?

right, incase you don't know, the numbers means that S@H is "owed" time, compared to E@H (E@H has probably done a lot of work recently, or your resource shares say that S@H should do more work than E@H)
only reset the LTD numbers if there's a real problem, if you've got one project with much higher resource shares than another, this is exactly the kind of behaviour to expect, because boinc is following the rules you have set for it
but when resetting the LTD numbers, make sure you've exited BOINC first, so that BoincDV can edit the files, becuase BOINC is using the client_state.xml file when it's running, and bad things happen (like corruption) when you try to run both

Well...while I was updateing this post, E@H picked up some WUs for the cache.
I guess I'm OK now.... Still no idea of what went wrong but I did find some posts on the BBC fora about it needing some sort of special BOINC and therefore don't download the latest BOINC update. Hmmmm...

i suspect that for whatever reason BBC needed more time than the others, maybe because BOINC knew it might not complete the work in time, the other prjects might have had negative debt, or maybe you set a high resource share for BBC

either way, it sounds like BOINC was just doing what it was told to do and didn't have any real problems

---

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OK - I'm cool....but I knew that....:-)
I deleted the .bak files.
S@H and E@H seem to be happy as clams....
So I guess I'm happy.

Thanx for all your help !

GOOD!!! Glad to hear it!

---

Jim

Some people plan their life out and look back at the wealth they've had.
Others live life day by day and look back at the wealth of experiences and enjoyment they've had.

OK - I'm cool....but I knew that....:-)
I deleted the .bak files.
S@H and E@H seem to be happy as clams....
So I guess I'm happy.

Thanx for all your help !

---

03/10/2006 07:38 PM 1,807 account_bbc.cpdn.org.xml.bak
03/10/2006 09:20 PM 3,237 account_einstein.phys.uwm.edu.xml
03/10/2006 08:37 PM 3,237 account_einstein.phys.uwm.edu.xml.bak
03/10/2006 09:12 PM 2,668 account_setiathome.berkeley.edu.xml
03/10/2006 08:41 PM 2,668 account_setiathome.berkeley.edu.xml.bak

Can I delete those "bak" files?

As long as you have the originals (without the .bak extension) and you make sure that the files are the same. Those files supply the information for boinc to log on to the different projects. You could probably delete them anyway but you would probably have to reattach to the project if something were wrong or missing in the others.

---

Jim

Some people plan their life out and look back at the wealth they've had.
Others live life day by day and look back at the wealth of experiences and enjoyment they've had.

[/quote]
There was a problem mentioned in this thread that sounds like it may be of some help.
Now the problem with your files is there's something made a backup of the files. Check in the boinc directory to see if you have the regular files plus these backup files. (You will have to set your file manager (windows explorer, aka "my computer") to show all files or it may not show backup files. If you do and the file sizes are the same you can probably just ignore these messages. If there are no files with the same name without the .bak extension you will have to rename these files. Leave the filename exactly the same except take the .bak extention off. You should probably do this without boinc running. Then restart boinc and see if there's any difference.
Good luck.[/quote]


03/10/2006 07:38 PM 1,807 account_bbc.cpdn.org.xml.bak
03/10/2006 09:20 PM 3,237 account_einstein.phys.uwm.edu.xml
03/10/2006 08:37 PM 3,237 account_einstein.phys.uwm.edu.xml.bak
03/10/2006 09:12 PM 2,668 account_setiathome.berkeley.edu.xml
03/10/2006 08:41 PM 2,668 account_setiathome.berkeley.edu.xml.bak

Can I delete those "bak" files?

FWIW: if you build a foolproof computer, they'll build a better fool.

---

I wonder if I'm still hosed (kinda). Here's my message log:

3/11/2006 2:39:30 PM||Starting BOINC client version 5.2.13 for windows_intelx86
3/11/2006 2:39:30 PM||libcurl/7.14.0 OpenSSL/0.9.8 zlib/1.2.3
3/11/2006 2:39:30 PM||Data directory: C:\\Program Files\\BOINC
3/11/2006 2:39:30 PM||Invalid account filename: account_bbc.cpdn.org.xml.bak
3/11/2006 2:39:30 PM||Invalid account filename: account_einstein.phys.uwm.edu.xml.bak
3/11/2006 2:39:30 PM||Invalid account filename: account_setiathome.berkeley.edu.xml.bak
3/11/2006 2:39:30 PM||Processor: 1 GenuineIntel Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 2.40GHz
3/11/2006 2:39:30 PM||Memory: 510.00 MB physical, 845.07 MB virtual
3/11/2006 2:39:30 PM||Disk: 38.25 GB total, 19.67 GB free
3/11/2006 2:39:30 PM|Einstein@Home|Computer ID: 477835; location: home; project prefs: default
3/11/2006 2:39:30 PM|SETI@home|Computer ID: 46409; location: ; project prefs: default
3/11/2006 2:39:30 PM||General prefs: from SETI@home (last modified 2006-03-11 14:13:00)
3/11/2006 2:39:30 PM||General prefs: using your defaults
3/11/2006 2:39:31 PM||Remote control not allowed; using loopback address
3/11/2006 2:39:31 PM|Einstein@Home|Deferring computation for result r1_1165.0__1037_S4R2a_3
3/11/2006 2:39:31 PM|SETI@home|Resuming computation for result 09au01aa.21558.14593.773582.1.249_1 using setiathome version 418
3/11/2006 2:39:31 PM|Einstein@Home|Restarting result r1_1165.0__1037_S4R2a_3 using albert version 437
3/11/2006 2:39:31 PM|SETI@home|Pausing result 09au01aa.21558.14593.773582.1.249_1 (left in memory)
==================================

notice the invalid account files.

There was a problem mentioned in this thread that sounds like it may be of some help.
Now the problem with your files is there's something made a backup of the files. Check in the boinc directory to see if you have the regular files plus these backup files. (You will have to set your file manager (windows explorer, aka "my computer") to show all files or it may not show backup files. If you do and the file sizes are the same you can probably just ignore these messages. If there are no files with the same name without the .bak extension you will have to rename these files. Leave the filename exactly the same except take the .bak extention off. You should probably do this without boinc running. Then restart boinc and see if there's any difference.
Good luck.

---

Jim

Some people plan their life out and look back at the wealth they've had.
Others live life day by day and look back at the wealth of experiences and enjoyment they've had.

I wonder if I'm still hosed (kinda). Here's my message log:

3/11/2006 2:39:30 PM||Starting BOINC client version 5.2.13 for windows_intelx86
3/11/2006 2:39:30 PM||libcurl/7.14.0 OpenSSL/0.9.8 zlib/1.2.3
3/11/2006 2:39:30 PM||Data directory: C:\\Program Files\\BOINC
3/11/2006 2:39:30 PM||Invalid account filename: account_bbc.cpdn.org.xml.bak
3/11/2006 2:39:30 PM||Invalid account filename: account_einstein.phys.uwm.edu.xml.bak
3/11/2006 2:39:30 PM||Invalid account filename: account_setiathome.berkeley.edu.xml.bak
3/11/2006 2:39:30 PM||Processor: 1 GenuineIntel Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 2.40GHz
3/11/2006 2:39:30 PM||Memory: 510.00 MB physical, 845.07 MB virtual
3/11/2006 2:39:30 PM||Disk: 38.25 GB total, 19.67 GB free
3/11/2006 2:39:30 PM|Einstein@Home|Computer ID: 477835; location: home; project prefs: default
3/11/2006 2:39:30 PM|SETI@home|Computer ID: 46409; location: ; project prefs: default
3/11/2006 2:39:30 PM||General prefs: from SETI@home (last modified 2006-03-11 14:13:00)
3/11/2006 2:39:30 PM||General prefs: using your defaults
3/11/2006 2:39:31 PM||Remote control not allowed; using loopback address
3/11/2006 2:39:31 PM|Einstein@Home|Deferring computation for result r1_1165.0__1037_S4R2a_3
3/11/2006 2:39:31 PM|SETI@home|Resuming computation for result 09au01aa.21558.14593.773582.1.249_1 using setiathome version 418
3/11/2006 2:39:31 PM|Einstein@Home|Restarting result r1_1165.0__1037_S4R2a_3 using albert version 437
3/11/2006 2:39:31 PM|SETI@home|Pausing result 09au01aa.21558.14593.773582.1.249_1 (left in memory)
==================================

notice the invalid account files.

---

Well...it's working again. I detached from the BBC project. I suspect something got hosed up in the LTD calculations. Anyway, a year-long WU is just not interesting. I set/reset my cache size and now S@H is running fine with WUs in the cache. E@H still has only 1 WU and it's running. We'll see what happens when it runs out. I did an update on E@H after messing with the cache size but still no cached WUs for E@H. Well see...inquiring minds want to know...

BTW: I tried the boincdv again and it shows S@H=727 and E@H=-727 (or something like that). I wanted to reset the LTD but I get a dialog box title FooBlar!
and a long list of files. Which file(s) do I choose?

Well...while I was updateing this post, E@H picked up some WUs for the cache.
I guess I'm OK now.... Still no idea of what went wrong but I did find some posts on the BBC fora about it needing some sort of special BOINC and therefore don't download the latest BOINC update. Hmmmm...

---

There's information in the Wiki about how the Work Scheduler operates, that's the part of BOINC that's decided you don't need more SETI work right now.

MJ

---

Somehow the boincdv messed up the account files so that the BBC work unit
has now ended:
3/10/2006 9:10:07 PM||Data directory: C:\\Program Files\\BOINC
3/10/2006 9:10:07 PM||Invalid account filename: account_bbc.cpdn.org.xml.bak
3/10/2006 9:10:07 PM||Invalid account filename: account_einstein.phys.uwm.edu.xml.bak
3/10/2006 9:10:07 PM||Invalid account filename: account_setiathome.berkeley.edu.xml.bak
3/10/2006 9:10:07 PM||Processor: 1 GenuineIntel Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 2.40GHz

Unfortunately, seti still doesn't want to get new work. Perhaps E@H has a LTD.

3/10/2006 9:12:16 PM||request_reschedule_cpus: project op
3/10/2006 9:12:20 PM|SETI@home|Sending scheduler request to http://setiboinc.ssl.berkeley.edu/sah_cgi/cgi
3/10/2006 9:12:20 PM|SETI@home|Reason: Requested by user
3/10/2006 9:12:20 PM|SETI@home|Note: not requesting new work or reporting results
3/10/2006 9:12:25 PM|SETI@home|Scheduler request to http://setiboinc.ssl.berkeley.edu/sah_cgi/cgi succeeded
====
only bbc has ended. seti is now processing. I'll guess we'll see.
I had a prevoius argument (via fora) with a bbc helper where I said that a year long work unit was too long except for the climate-only weenies. Here's an example. My bbc workunit is kaput and I'm not getting another...

ok, that's really weird, never ever seen boincDV do that before, it should be reading (and only reading) your client_state.xml file, nothing else

i suspect that boinclogx has caused the problems with your account files
did you stop boinc while you uninstalled boinclogx then restart after?

as Jim said, resetting will probably make it work again (unless it's a debt issue, in which case it'll just happen again after a while)

if you're willing i'd like to go thru a few things to get to the bottom of the cause
have you done anything recently like resume projects/WUs
does boinc say anything about "earliest deadline first" mode in the messages log?

---

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OK - boincdv is really obscure. Where do I unzip it and what file do I "clear the debt". The readme is no help. I hacked around until dv said OK. It still happens. No work requested.

I downloaded it into the BOINC directory. When I ran it , i specified the account files. Not that the readme was any help since it was not.

sorry, i should have explained...
download the zip, and extract boincdv.exe into your boinc folder
then run boincdv.exe and it should find your client_state.xml automatically and output the results to it's little window

---

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OK - I'll let the last 4 WUs end ( 2 S@h and 2 e@h ) and we'll see what happens then.

---

I don't like saying this, but if all else fails, run down all your work units that you have now and report them and if you haven't gotten any by then reset your projects. Don't reset a project that still has wu's or results to report. Resetting is a drastic measure but sometimes drastic measures are called for.
Also it seems like something has messed with your project files in that it's trying to find a backup file, or boinc is trying to use a backup file and can't. See if you can report the wu's you have now and we'll go from there.
Jim

---

Jim

Some people plan their life out and look back at the wealth they've had.
Others live life day by day and look back at the wealth of experiences and enjoyment they've had.

Somehow the boincdv messed up the account files so that the BBC work unit
has now ended:
3/10/2006 9:10:07 PM||Data directory: C:\\Program Files\\BOINC
3/10/2006 9:10:07 PM||Invalid account filename: account_bbc.cpdn.org.xml.bak
3/10/2006 9:10:07 PM||Invalid account filename: account_einstein.phys.uwm.edu.xml.bak
3/10/2006 9:10:07 PM||Invalid account filename: account_setiathome.berkeley.edu.xml.bak
3/10/2006 9:10:07 PM||Processor: 1 GenuineIntel Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 2.40GHz

Unfortunately, seti still doesn't want to get new work. Perhaps E@H has a LTD.

3/10/2006 9:12:16 PM||request_reschedule_cpus: project op
3/10/2006 9:12:20 PM|SETI@home|Sending scheduler request to http://setiboinc.ssl.berkeley.edu/sah_cgi/cgi
3/10/2006 9:12:20 PM|SETI@home|Reason: Requested by user
3/10/2006 9:12:20 PM|SETI@home|Note: not requesting new work or reporting results
3/10/2006 9:12:25 PM|SETI@home|Scheduler request to http://setiboinc.ssl.berkeley.edu/sah_cgi/cgi succeeded
====
only bbc has ended. seti is now processing. I'll guess we'll see.
I had a prevoius argument (via fora) with a bbc helper where I said that a year long work unit was too long except for the climate-only weenies. Here's an example. My bbc workunit is kaput and I'm not getting another...

---

Hi Neal,
I didn't mean you had to start a new thread, but that's ok. I was just explaining that the "fixes" you were trying from that thread were to try to cure a network problem. Yours doesn't seem to be a network problem so they wouldn't work for you.
There are no error messages in your log so as Lee was saying, it may be that you have a debt owed to another project, or possibly a deadline on another project that needs to be met. In either case you won't get new work until those are taken care of. This line: "3/10/2006 7:22:56 PM|SETI@home|Deferring computation for result 09au01aa.21558.14593.773582.1.248_0" makes me think that it's one or the other.
Jim

---

Jim

Some people plan their life out and look back at the wealth they've had.
Others live life day by day and look back at the wealth of experiences and enjoyment they've had.