I have never been one to cheer the loss of anyone who decides to leave SETI and/or BOINC, and I am not happy that Paul D. Buck is leaving now. But his leaving is not that much different from those many who come to these message boards and complain about BOINC or SETI or Berkeley or whatever, then leave (or threaten to leave). The only difference here is that instead of having a problem with the operation of the software, Paul has a problem with the administration of the project.

I am aware of the work Paul has done to help others, including his WIKI and his frequent answering of individual's questions. I do not have the expertise to participate in that way--I just participate by crunching work. It is interesting to note that there have been no snide remarks about Paul's announcement as so often accompanies others who announce their departure. I wonder how those of you who badger unhappy crunchers can justify your actions toward those other people who announce their leaving, when they are doing nothing different than Paul is now doing: complaining about something they don't like, then detaching.

I have never been one to cheer the loss of anyone who decides to leave SETI and/or BOINC, and I am not happy that Paul D. Buck is leaving now. But his leaving is not that much different from those many who come to these message boards and complain about BOINC or SETI or Berkeley or whatever, then leave (or threaten to leave). The only difference here is that instead of having a problem with the operation of the software, Paul has a problem with the administration of the project.

I am aware of the work Paul has done to help others, including his WIKI and his frequent answering of individual's questions. I do not have the expertise to participate in that way--I just participate by crunching work. It is interesting to note that there have been no snide remarks about Paul's announcement as so often accompanies others who announce their departure. I wonder how those of you who badger unhappy crunchers can justify your actions toward those other people who announce their leaving, when they are doing nothing different than Paul is now doing: complaining about something they don't like, then detaching.

The difference is that Paul tried to do something about it first. He did not come whining about it like they did with their threats of leaving if they can't get it to work. Makes a big difference.
Anyhow, want to say that you are missed already, cya Paul
:(

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98SE XP2500+ @ 2.1 GHz Boinc v5.8.8

And God said"Let there be light."But then the program crashed because he was trying to access the 'light' property of a NULL universe pointer.

I understand the frustration, Paul, but on the other hand you have to understand that the project developers have their own priorities (and their real life, depressions, and frustrations) too. This is why I never got too frustrated myself with them not listening our ideas, but rather tried to change it on my own - and that's why I am offering modified enhanced versions of the core client since a long time. It is not the perfect solution, but it is better doing something myself than complaining and being frustrated. And you did the same - you bypassed the limitations of the system and the lack of the information by creating, managing and maintaing the Wiki. It is a big disapointent you gave up, but the work you've done stays with us, and it is incredibly valuable.

Just please try to think about other people (both developers and users) exactly like about yourself - it is not only you who has the right to be depressed and frustrated - all of us (or almost all) are subjects of depressions time to time, so please try to overcome it, and get into the work again. You are definitely not alone who suffers with depressions and frustrations, so please pack up all your effort and start anew. Work heals. And even if your decision to leave BOINC is definitive, please do not give up to the beast (I mean the Depression you know so well), and fight again - you are not alone, we are with you!

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trux
BOINC software
Freediving Team
Czech Republic

Trux... my hat is off to you! Wonderful words, worth listening to!

[Edit - 28 Feb 2006 3:46:06 UTC]

<snipped>


For those that contributed, and those that used the Wiki, I am truly grateful.


<snipped>


Paul

Paul I too am saddened buy your leaving.

We all know how many thousands of hours

you have put into the project and your efforts are greatly appreciated.

I too ..... was not aware that there was problems ....

Paul when you and I were .....

beta testing Boinc version 00.xx

way back back in July of , 2003

there was only a Grand total of 700 people

you worked so very hard and long hours ..

Paul .... You will be Greatly missed missed

.... God bless you ..

The difference is that Paul tried to do something about it first. He did not come whining about it like they did with their threats of leaving if they can't get it to work. Makes a big difference.

I'm not saying Paul is wrong, I'm saying those who treated others so badly, when the only thing those others were doing was expressing their frustrations, were and are wrong to act so rudely. How do you know what the people who post their gripes here have done about solving their problem? More often than not, when someone asked a disgruntled user what steps they took, they would respond that they had tried some fixes already, with no luck.

The point is, that for whatever reason when people have given up on this project, the response too often heard is, "Then there is more work for me.", or "Just leave already, and quit complaining." That is not the kind of community that Paul wanted here, nor should anyone else be happy with that attitude.

I don't come to this forum frequently enough to have an opinion about Tom's point, but my instant reaction to the absence of snide posts about Paul's departure, is that this is just one more mark of the respect so many of us have for the value he has added to BOINC and BOINC projects via the documentation which evolved into the Wiki.

Regardless of his many other contributions & attempted contributions, forum and other communications etc., and ignoring whatever controversies deriving therefrom, the Wiki itself merits that respect, for the tremendous resource it is and the tremendous work required to create and maintain it. Thank you, Paul.

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I'm not saying Paul is wrong, I'm saying those who treated others so badly, when the only thing those others were doing was expressing their frustrations, were and are wrong to act so rudely.

Paul hasn't bitched, whined or carried on like a spoilt child. Many of the others did. He has just expressed his opionion in a calm & rational way, many of the others didn't.

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Grant
Darwin NT

Paul hasn't bitched, whined or carried on like a spoilt child. Many of the others did. He has just expressed his opionion in a calm & rational way, many of the others didn't.

"Bitched, whined or carried on", or posted here in total frustration? Some might say the posts in response to those who complained and threatened to leave was bitching, whining or carrying on, but it basically was designed to drive them away. How else do you explain the "Woo-woo, more WU-WU's for me!" comments? And though Paul is calm and rational, this time, he is in fact complaining about how things are run--that they are not being done the way he would like. Maybe that's not a spoiled child, but it is rather similar.

Maybe that's not a spoiled child, but it is rather similar.

IMHO that's not correct, and essentially not the point (if I read your Post correctly).

There are a few whiners or folks who didn't understand the way things work here and there, or wanted things that just did not make sense...
But what I've always observed is people often bashing blindly without even understanding the nature of the appointed problems (and that includes Admin).

There's a hughe difference between losing a whiner (or even Troll), or some of the best people a Project has. Today, many people cannot seem to distinguish. It will not occur until some time in the future, that folks will understand the significant difference and witness the consequences.

It just takes more than just delivering Work to do, to keep Volunteers happy. Some Projects (sometimes including individuals among their community) deny that until this day, slowly driving away their best resources.

I fully understand Paul's frustration.
I permanently turned my back on one Project already after constantly being ignored/bashed upon (and most importantly also seeing other peoples' valuable Ideas or urgent Problems being discarded in favor of neglectable details or features), a 2nd Project is 'on the edge' . Others already did it as well or will do in the future.

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Some might say the posts in response to those who complained and threatened to leave was bitching, whining or carrying on,

Many were.

but it basically was designed to drive them away.

Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be expalined by stupidity. Or in those cases explained by frustration at the original poster's attitude & a lack of self control.

And though Paul is calm and rational, this time, he is in fact complaining about how things are run--that they are not being done the way he would like.

That was my impression as well, however; as i said before, he made his points in a calm & rational manner. So while i don't agree with them, i didn't feel there was any need to coment on them.

Maybe that's not a spoiled child, but it is rather similar.

Not really.
If you feel that things aren't being done in a way you find acceptable, nor in a way you can live with it's best to move on. His post was just an explanation of why he was leaving for those that wanted to know.
A spoilt child would have made a lot more noise & fuss.

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Grant
Darwin NT

"Bitched, whined or carried on", or posted here in total frustration? Some might say the posts in response to those who complained and threatened to leave was bitching, whining or carrying on, but it basically was designed to drive them away. How else do you explain the "Woo-woo, more WU-WU's for me!" comments? And though Paul is calm and rational, this time, he is in fact complaining about how things are run--that they are not being done the way he would like. Maybe that's not a spoiled child, but it is rather similar.

You do not know all of Paul's story. There is a lot of difference here. Paul was a pioneer. He got on the BOINC project early. He worked directly with the developers. He was on the "A" list. The developers worked closely with Paul, originally. He worked hard and TRIED to make this all work, not only for himself, but for everyone. He didn't take a disliking to the software immediately, or as some never even try the software, before quiting.

Paul in some people's opinion was a key player in the projects, just as any of the developers, administrators, etc. He knows more about the behind the scenes of these projects than most of us will ever touch upon. Loosing him means we as a people lost a peer who was working with the different projects to keep them working with the users. His loss could cause other chaotic effects, down the road. People respect Paul for all his work.

Well Said POOH BEAR!

I did not come to SETI2 until after the demise of classic (well, I put a couple of P-1's on earlier, just to get my account active) but did not bring my Acreage (small Farm) until 12-16-05. I read here, posted 2 or 3 times prior, and the flaming of "classic" was ALMOST enough to drive me away. I, however, believe in the concept and the ONE NAME that always appeared as the "voice of reason" in any flame was Paul.

I had less than 10K on December 16 when I switched and currently am at 280K+.

Clay Ruth brought his FARM the same time I did and is at 425K.

Seti COULD have lost both of us like they did so many others with even MORE to offer than we have. Curt Sowulo and Warhawk quietly moved on to other things.

My point here is that it was NOT the demise of classic that bothered ANY of us, it was the cavalier attitude of Berkeley/Admin AND lack of communication WITH us. In the year I was on classic, I think I saw 3 "yellow" posts on the boards! History is repeating itself.

Like many TRIED to do on Classic, e-mails, plea's and yes, when all else fails, bitch and whine..... HOW DO YOU GET THEIR ATTENTION??????? Paul apparently exhausted all avenues of getting through to Admin, failed, and rather than take the final step of bitch and moan, he just walked. A very sad day for all of us.

I see posts that almost sound "good riddance"... not so cool.
I see posts that support Paul .... cool!
I see posts that are sorrowful....

Whatever you feel, good riddance or sorrow, in the overall picture, it is the same attitude that Berkeley had about classic, just shifted to here and other projects. It is a dark day for SETI-Boinc, no matter how you slice it!

I stayed with Classic to the bitter end, and I will be HERE until there are no more WU's to crunch..... (predicted May, I think ???).

I stayed with Classic to the bitter end, and I will be HERE until there are no more WU's to crunch..... (predicted May, I think ???).

Sorry a little OT, did you read the new Tech News? Looks like the new recorder is almost online! New data to crunch, coming in the near future!

I don't come to this forum frequently enough to have an opinion about Tom's point, but my instant reaction to the absence of snide posts about Paul's departure, is that this is just one more mark of the respect so many of us have for the value he has added to BOINC and BOINC projects via the documentation which evolved into the Wiki.

Regardless of his many other contributions & attempted contributions, forum and other communications etc., and ignoring whatever controversies deriving therefrom, the Wiki itself merits that respect, for the tremendous resource it is and the tremendous work required to create and maintain it. Thank you, Paul.

Well said

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It looks like I picked a bad weekend to be away from the computer.
This development comes as a total shock. If a determined, dedicated individual such as Paul can reach a point where he says "enough is enough" I have to wonder what's going on. Paul is an individual who I have a great degree of respect for, whose opinions and positions are well thought out and presented logically. This is a major loss to the BOINC community.

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Nothing travels faster than the speed of light with the possible exception of bad news, which obeys its own special laws.
Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)

Phew, quite a surprising post from Paul. I hope that whatever was said on whatever other forums (or this forum) hasn't tipped the balance for him for the worst.

A few random comments:

I think the nature and tone of this thread shows how people feel towards the very positive contribution Paul has made, both for his very patient and understanding postings to help people, and for the mammoth task putting together the Boinc-Wiki. Also, there must have been a fair amount of gentle politicing there to get the Wiki accepted by all the projects.

I hope he hasn't been disillusioned by setting his aims far too high. The Boinc-wiki will always be an unfinished work! However, it is still an important work as demonstrated by how very quickly others have promised to keep it all going.

And then there's the nature of the cooperation or angst or whatever between the project Participants and those offering the projects. Its up to yourselves how you take it all. I can well imaginge that some academics have jumped into more than their PR can handle with this pernicious Boinc Supercomputer that Answers Back and Demands Human "feelie" treatment (que theme music for 2001 as HAL goes into a sulk and switches off ...).


My feelings are that as Participants, we have a great time in getting involved at whatever level. Hell, we can even start up our own Boinc projects! Otherwise, we can only tag along for whatever the project leaders do. If we disagree, we can discuss and/or leave.

I've been frustrated as Paul has been over some of the s@h development choices. A lot of thought went into the calibration ideas for making credits calculations "meaningful". This could spawn a branch of science in itself! Some of the stats junkies could... Well lots. However, this is the real world and I can sympathise with Berkeley and an easier, quicker yet more inaccurately dirty solution is in place. But it works, and the anti-cheat features of full calibration have so far not been required. And then "trux" has jumped in with a good solution also, that we are all free to use... And we are all free to contribute or not in whatever way for whatever reasons.

These projects are as Human as the Project Leaders and the Participants themselves...


OK... In summary: Very sad to see Paul succumb to bad feelings. This is all normal and Human. Paul, hope to see you back in the fight soon!

Regards,
and Good Luck,

Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Phew, quite a surprising post from Paul. ...

ps: These postings also show that there is some good positive passion for the science and projects and that people care about this.

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Hello Paul,

I absolutly sorry to hear, that you are leaving the comunity and drop your outstanding opus, the boinc Wiki. But I'll have respect you decision.

Many thanks for all your work done.

Bernhard

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Hi Paul,

This is indeed a very bad piece of news for the entire BOINC community. The work you did is invaluable and it certainly helped A LOT of people here, myself included. All the best in your new endeavours.

Take care!

Wander

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