Wmm...if i see someone with 80K host...then i think waaw i wonder if he could do it with one less. :)
Because it's not up to me to control anyone.
If i suspect someone i bring him to Cort.
If he is Innocent then i have to deal with the authorities for blaming him.

If you do not care, simply do not do it. Do not watch it. Close your eyes. Stop to watch this thread. It speaks about things that do not concern you, since you do not care.

Unfortunately, there is no BOINC Court, there is no BOINC Police. There are only two, three, maybe four persons at Berkeley who can do something about it, but they definitely do no have time to monitor all the suspicious activity. They are already now completely overloaded and overworked.

The best example was already shown - there were many cases of abuse and Trojans in the the SETI Classic too. At the final checkout they removed ~30% users of the top 1000 (correct me if I am wrong), because they were returning fraudulent and scientifically invalid results. Still, after the clean-up, there are abusers who sent invalid results there (I do know it). The invalid results poisoned the science database, the clean-up costs a lot of time (and money) and I am sure, still a lot of invalid results are there. Do you really want that we finish in the same way? Well, in S@H BOINC, hopefully the risk of poisoning the database is lower (though it is not the case in other projects with lower quorum), but if an abuser with tens of thousands of hosts starts spamming the database with invalid results, with short calculation time and high claimed credits, in spite of the high quorum, important percentage of the invalid results will do it through to the science database anyway. Is it really what you are fighting for??

Or do you fight for the right of writing Trojan horses, viruses, buffer overflows, hacking computers, installing BOINC illegally on computers of your employer, your friends or customers, or complete strangers? If you do, then please found another Distributed Computing system for you and people alike. I prefer to comply with the rules and ethics, and demand that others do it too. And I want at least certain level of transparency.

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trux
BOINC software
Freediving Team
Czech Republic

You can never find the Internet Police when you need one!

If cyberspace is anything like my home town, you'll them here:
krispykreme.com

Or do you fight for the right of writing Trojan horses, viruses, buffer overflows, hacking computers, installing BOINC illegally on computers of your employer, your friends or customers, or complete strangers? If you do, then please found another Distributed Computing system for you and people alike. I prefer to comply with the rules and ethics, and demand that others do it too. And I want at least certain level of transparency.

Of course i'm surely against this kind of people..
But my point is..the only one who can take legal action is the one's who's computer is compromised.
AS much we would, want, love to no user can do it in his/her name.
Not even Berkely although the can bring evidence to the case.

Regards

Or do you fight for the right of writing Trojan horses, viruses, buffer overflows, hacking computers, installing BOINC illegally on computers of your employer, your friends or customers, or complete strangers? If you do, then please found another Distributed Computing system for you and people alike. I prefer to comply with the rules and ethics, and demand that others do it too. And I want at least certain level of transparency.

Of course i'm surely against this kind of people..
But my point is..the only one who can take legal action is the one's who's computer is compromised.
AS much we would, want, love to no user can do it in his/her name.
Not even Berkely although the can bring evidence to the case.

Regards

Who said anything about legal action?

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But my point is..the only one who can take legal action is the one's who's computer is compromised.

I do completely agree with you here, but in the same time I believe we should not make it too easy for the crooks. If there are simple means to reduce, prevent, detect, monitor, report or punish their (often criminal) activity, we won't need to face the embarassement as often as with no protection at all (just look back to S@H Classic to see what I mean).

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trux
BOINC software
Freediving Team
Czech Republic

[edit]double post[/edit]

Who said anything about legal action?

What's the point in looking for abusers and do nothing against it?

Regards

i'm for have the option to have hidden hosts, if i make a major mistake and end up blowing up a huge queue of wu's (don't turn off the confirmation for detach hosts on boincview =/) at least i can keep my stupidity to myself as opposed to someone tracing a host that dumped 60 wu's back to me.

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Who said anything about legal action?

What's the point in looking for abusers and do nothing against it?

Regards

We can do something about it....cancel the account and drop the credits. No court needed for that. Duh?

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Further back in this thread there were questions about NEZ and how many hosts he/she has.

This paper has some interesting stats including the info that the top seti user had 2179 hosts.

Boinc

EDIT: sorry wrong link first time

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Further back in this thread there were questions about NEZ and how many hosts he/she has.

This paper has some interesting stats including the info that the top seti user had 2179 hosts.

Nature Article

"This article is available in full to Premium plus subscribers"

you're better off posting a summery 8)

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uninstall dyslexica.o : Permission denied


AMD Athlon 64 3000+ w/Windows
AMD Athlon 1800+ w/Linux

Boinc

EDIT: sorry wrong link first time

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Everyone who who has got a high score is now getting branded of as dodgy just because computers are hidden time to get a grip folks

Nope. We do not want to burn heretics. All we want is more transparency and better possibility of monitoring. We want explanantions. If NEZ comes and tells "I've build a supercomputer", or "I have a huge computer farm and pay monthly $2000 to feed them with el. power, because I love BOINC", or "I am admin at huge organization and installed BOINC on all their machines", or "I developped an ingenious software optimization", or "we are a group of 500 members and work under the same account", I am ready to accept it if there are some facts behind it that confirm his words. Without the comments, and without the possibility to see little bit closer what's going on, we can only speculate. Why do you call it witch hunt?

The rankings list everybody, why would you want to remove people that want to keep their computers hidden. If I chose to hide my computers why should I be removed from the listings?

I do not want to remove anyone. But I do not see any single acceptable reason for keeping the hosts anonymous. I understand though that some people may feel differently - in that case let's give them to possibility to be really anonymous - let's hide them completely - that should satisfy them sufficiently.

Let's ask the other way: Give me a single reason WHY would you want having your hosts hidden if there are no private data in the listing, and when your account is anonymous anyway?

I suppose that over 80% of private users with more than 1 PC use a non-licenced copy of their operating system. Have seen many accounts with 3 or more computers, none of them a workstation, all of them with Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition as OS. It's obvious that these computers are set off with unlicenced software fetched with eMule or so. Maybe that 50% of all BOINCers did come to BOINC because their PC is running 365d/24h because of filesharing. So why presenting these PCs to the Microsoft teams at BOINC?

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Love, Jenny

I suppose there are some of these out there but in my case, not. Let me ask this question. Are the host names kept private to my view only? If not, I would rather they stay hidden. Giving someone of questionable motives the abaility to lookup my systems and target them for hacking is my only reason for keeping them in a hidden state. I do NOT want host.domain listings of my systems listed for all to see.

I suppose that over 80% of private users with more than 1 PC use a non-licenced copy of their operating system. Have seen many accounts with 3 or more computers, none of them a workstation, all of them with Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition as OS. It's obvious that these computers are set off with unlicenced software fetched with eMule or so. Maybe that 50% of all BOINCers did come to BOINC because their PC is running 365d/24h because of filesharing. So why presenting these PCs to the Microsoft teams at BOINC?

I suppose there are some of these out there but in my case, not. Let me ask this question. Are the host names kept private to my view only?

Yes, they are shown only to you. I cannot see them, neither can any other participant who looks up your computers.

Just click my name, view my computers. See if you can figure out from the info given there what my computer name is, or my network address.

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Good enough for me, I'll turn mine on.

I suppose there are some of these out there but in my case, not. Let me ask this question. Are the host names kept private to my view only?

Yes, they are shown only to you. I cannot see them, neither can any other participant who looks up your computers.

Just click my name, view my computers. See if you can figure out from the info given there what my computer name is, or my network address.

i'm for have the option to have hidden hosts, if i make a major mistake and end up blowing up a huge queue of wu's (don't turn off the confirmation for detach hosts on boincview =/) at least i can keep my stupidity to myself as opposed to someone tracing a host that dumped 60 wu's back to me.

Everyone makes mistakes--there's no shame in that--and good software should make allowance for the fact. Should a project scientist or volunteer have the time to sample some of the bad results to determine what happened to them, don't you think it's possible a future version of the client might thus be improved or partly 'idiot-proofed', based on knowledge of what kinds of errors users are likely to make? If the results of mistakes are just 'swept under the rug', then nobody can learn from them.

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i'm for have the option to have hidden hosts, if i make a major mistake and end up blowing up a huge queue of wu's (don't turn off the confirmation for detach hosts on boincview =/) at least i can keep my stupidity to myself as opposed to someone tracing a host that dumped 60 wu's back to me.

Everyone makes mistakes--there's no shame in that--and good software should make allowance for the fact. Should a project scientist or volunteer have the time to sample some of the bad results to determine what happened to them, don't you think it's possible a future version of the client might thus be improved or partly 'idiot-proofed', based on knowledge of what kinds of errors users are likely to make? If the results of mistakes are just 'swept under the rug', then nobody can learn from them.

That would be a "feature request" for sure.

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We can do something about it....cancel the account and drop the credits. No court needed for that. Duh?

Sorry to disappoint you but no we can't.
Berkeley can but by carefully asking his/her permission.
Why carefully?. PR..a company can have relations and do more damage to
the project than some yelling users (only for the sake of comparison no pun intended)

Cancel his account isn't a solution he/she can create another in no time.
Blocking his IP... not much of a solution either he/she can hide behind a proxy or have
different proxy's who change every single minute.

[thinking_out_loud]
hm.. that's maybe why G.C seems to have hosts all over the world.
[/thinking_out_loud]

What we can do to contribute to the solution is something like Trux proposed,
include [snip] "some mechanism to limit cheating and unethical behavior". [/snip].
We can because there are some really good coders* around here.
* (i don't want to use the word Hackers it sounds to negative to a NooB like me.)

What can we do more?
Remind the users about the sword of Damocles.

1-Warn the users not to rip mp3/DVD files only to have more music/movies than someone else
2-Warn the users not to download illegal OS copy's to install on their how many PC's
3-Warn the users not to download and install illegal software copy's to play a on LAN game.
The above are also violations...he but everyone does it so it's ok..no it's not.

4-Help a (against all odds) user to make a Himem dump and other measures to locate the nasty thing,
So he/she can take legal action and contribute to the solution if he/she wish.
etc..
Notice warn not monitor nor control


Best regards.

We can do something about it....cancel the account and drop the credits. No court needed for that. Duh?

Sorry to disappoint you but no we can't.
Berkeley can but by carefully asking his/her permission.
Why carefully?. PR..a company can have relations and do more damage to
the project than some yelling users (only for the sake of comparison no pun intended)

Cancel his account isn't a solution he/she can create another in no time.
Blocking his IP... not much of a solution either he/she can hide behind a proxy or have
different proxy's who change every single minute.

[thinking_out_loud]
hm.. that's maybe why G.C seems to have hosts all over the world.
[/thinking_out_loud]

What we can do to contribute to the solution is something like Trux proposed,
include [snip] "some mechanism to limit cheating and unethical behavior". [/snip].
We can because there are some really good coders* around here.
* (i don't want to use the word Hackers it sounds to negative to a NooB like me.)

What can we do more?
Remind the users about the sword of Damocles.

1-Warn the users not to rip mp3/DVD files only to have more music/movies than someone else
2-Warn the users not to download illegal OS copy's to install on their how many PC's
3-Warn the users not to download and install illegal software copy's to play a on LAN game.
The above are also violations...he but everyone does it so it's ok..no it's not.

4-Help a (against all odds) user to make a Himem dump and other measures to locate the nasty thing,
So he/she can take legal action and contribute to the solution if he/she wish.
etc..
Notice warn not monitor nor control


Best regards.

All hail the knob gobbler.

At the end of the day, I really don't care what other(s) opinions are really, including yours..I would rather just crunch, contribute some science, and find that elusive signal.

Questions will be asked. Questions should be asked.

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