Pappa,

in my quest for optimized applications I've received some (unexpected and unasked for) donations for Windows development tools. Should any more donations come in (the licensing cost is covered exactly right now), I will send them Seti's way.

Regards,
Simon.

---

Donate to SETI@Home via PayPal!

Optimized SETI@Home apps + Information

Woody

Somehow I knew that you would show up here! I have to ask once again "which you did not answer." What has gotten under your skin so "Badly" that you have to attack Seti Boinc?

You did not answer then and I ask once again! For the last time. The choice is Yours, You can express what you feel is wrong... You can heaven forbid, even interject solutions... Some of what is seen here actually gets incorporated...

So while I have defended your right to "freedom of speach," I need an answer as to why you continue to attack the Seti Project. Facts as you see them is fine (Please Create a New Thread)... Otherwise please let people try to do what they can do...

Pappa

If you've been around since the original beta, you shouldn't need me to restate what's gone wrong with the transition from Classic Seti to New Seti. New Seti was long, long, long overdue, and too be honest, looked to me like a Jr High science fair project when it was first made "active".

There were those that attacked me from day one of New Seti going live, not because of my opinion, but because they thought I had a different user ID on the beta (I didn't). The "cheerleaders" here don't allow someone with a differing opinion to say anthing, without being attacked

From the day that New Seti went live, unlike when other Boinc projects went live, the "person in charge" - Dr Dave, donen't interact with the cruncher base on the project forums, and seems to have no desire to do so. This CAN be addressed, but it doesn't seem that Dr Dave has any desire to do so.

There are many times that I'd post an option or opinion, and I'd get attacked simply because it was from azwoody. Pappa, I will state that you're one that would actually consider the message, and not just shoot the messanger! (BTW, thank you).

When it comes to donations, which after all is the topic of this thread, I also feel that New Seti, never seems to consider the donation of CPU time and all that's involved (electricity cost, etc) as a donation. You get a "green star" for sending a check for $20, but unlike Seti Classic, you're not awarded with a "new badge" when you've crunched a certain amount. This to me is an area which could, and should be addressed by the project.

Why am I still here even though I complain about the project? Well, as I've said, if no one complains, nothing will change, and I do think there's a chance of finding ET. That's why I started with "Seti Classic", soon after it started.

I do offer here a couple of suggestions, but they've been offered before, and ignored or attacked...

As I said, this is a "donations thread", and the Classic units I crunched, and the New Units I crunched are a donation, and if I need to start a new thread, I can only ask if that means my non-dollar donations to the project don't matter!

BTW, as a "donation" to the project, I do take credit for "Classic", as when Seti/boinc first went into production, I started comparing the old seti to the seti/boinc version as a similar move by the Coke Company. They released "New Coke", which, as we all know, failed within months, but allowed the company to release "Coke Classic", and then "New Coke" was dumped. The patent on the original Coke was about to expire, and by using the new "Coke Classic" name, they were able to retain the patent! I think I may have also been the one that donated the term "cheerleader" to common terms on these forums!

I'll also take credit for my donation of the term "Chimps with Keyboards" into the seti/boinc terminology, though I've not seen that term used, since the whole "Raid box that will solve all our problems" fiasco!

---

Simon

More than that can not be asked for... I send Congrats, as you have accomplished something important... The important part to remember is sharing knowledge with Here and with Eric...

I do have to admit that getting through Eric's SPAM filter is tougher...

Congrats

Pappa

Pappa,

in my quest for optimized applications I've received some (unexpected and unasked for) donations for Windows development tools. Should any more donations come in (the licensing cost is covered exactly right now), I will send them Seti's way.

Regards,
Simon.

---

Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

Simon

More than that can not be asked for... I send Congrats, as you have accomplished something important... The important part to remember is sharing knowledge with Here and with Eric...

I do have to admit that getting through Eric's SPAM filter is tougher...

Congrats

Pappa

Pappa,

in my quest for optimized applications I've received some (unexpected and unasked for) donations for Windows development tools. Should any more donations come in (the licensing cost is covered exactly right now), I will send them Seti's way.

Regards,
Simon.

Just as something to consider, I'm wondering how optimized apps on Seti compare to those on Einstein, as on Einstein, akosf was told to stop releasing his patches. Is the science being done at Einstein so much more precise?

---

Maybe not the right thread to discuss this - but azwoody, it's a valid question. There's a fundamental difference between recompiling source code (which is what Seti@Home optimizers did) or hand-tuning a compiled binary by shuffling assembler code, which is what Akosf did.

There is also a fundamental difference between the S@H application being GPL'd and them using a closed-source program. It really is not comparable in this regard.

I can only say that all results I've returned with my new clients have validated 100%, and my testers and users have said the same (except for minor compatibility issues which seem resolved but did not affect computation).

It's not really always the messenger, it's the way the message is delivered, too. In most posts, you take the time to point out how you cannot say anything without being attacked. You seem to believe this, and by doing that, you're helping make it so, as well. Even if you do not believe in Karma, it believes in you.

I mean no offense by this, just something I've noted.
Now let's see whether we can motivate more people to donate :o)

Regards,
Simon.

---

Donate to SETI@Home via PayPal!

Optimized SETI@Home apps + Information

Hello, All -

Just FYI I'm cleaning up the message boards a bit and in the process I'm going to de-sticky this thread. This is only to clean up the top of the page which has (in my opinion) way too many sticky threads, making for a confusing read for newcomers. I vastly appreciate everybody's kind words/hopes/prayers in this thread. But the funding drive has obviously slowed down for the time being, and we'll have a new sticky thread when we try another funding drive, probably later on this year (earlier than "annual" but so be it).

- Matt

---

-- BOINC/SETI@home network/web/science/development person
-- "Any idiot can have a good idea. What is hard is to do it." - Jeanne-Claude

Pappa,

in my quest for optimized applications I've received some (unexpected and unasked for) donations for Windows development tools. Should any more donations come in (the licensing cost is covered exactly right now), I will send them Seti's way.

Regards,
Simon.

Kudos.


Regards Hans

---

Bump??? Bump what?

I have no idea. I just got here.

---

me@rescam.org

Ned

Actually I recieved a bit of information stated that people had sent donations to "donors (at) ssl.berkeley.edu." They were not "fulfilled," but the volume of requests is what started getting attention. So the bottom line is when the bank account and the email address that will respond is selected... Then PayPal can happen... I am surprised that it is not in the Seti Store, someone had to designate a bank account/address for the funds to go to... We just have to be patient...

Probably there is one bank account and tons of spreadsheets that say this money went there and other money went over there...

If Berkeley can't get a PayPal system going what about the new GBuy?

I don't think the issue is "Paypal" as "Paypal" as much as it is getting the banking issues straightened out.

I suspect that departments and projects at the university are not allowed to have separate bank accounts -- that the money has to go through "proper channels" and those proper channels are just now finding out about PayPal.

Pappa

I don't disagree. Just saying that somewhere on campus are the folks who have the bank account(s), and they hold purse strings -- if they don't buy into PayPal, it won't happen.

I posted earlier about the "isoldit" stores and their fundraising efforts, you could drop off your "junque" and they'll sell it and give the money to your designated cause -- but the cause has to sign up. It'd be the same deal.

---

Pappa,

in my quest for optimized applications I've received some (unexpected and unasked for) donations for Windows development tools. Should any more donations come in (the licensing cost is covered exactly right now), I will send them Seti's way.

Regards,
Simon.

Hi Simon,

I was planning on sending you a small contribution towards the license fees, but I see I am too late and you have it covered... So I have made a small donation to SETI on your behalf (and now have a little green star... ;o)))

I want to thank you for all your hard work and can't wait to use the fruits of your labour.

Cheers, Nic.

---

Kudos SwissNic :)

That's a good place to send your donation to instead. I might call for more donations at a later point, but right now I would have just passed it on here anyway.

Keep it up people!

Regards,
Simon.

---

Donate to SETI@Home via PayPal!

Optimized SETI@Home apps + Information

Seems to me, and I'm just the "anti guy", but I've got to wonder why the license to the Intel compiler was donated to "Chicken of Angnor", and not to UCB?

Seems if UCB had the license, it could be used to build optimed apps for crunchers and available to all as the "standard app". Seems a better donation of the licence, for "the science" or "for the credits", would have been to get this compiler to UCB.

All I can ask, is why this wasn't done? Does UCB reject a client built with the Intel compiler? It seems to me, that in the best interest of the project, getting the license in the hands of the UCB developers would make a bit more sense than getting into the hands of someone hacking the code.

The licence, as it was based on donations, to me, seems like should be used by Eric et al, and not for a non-standard version of the cruncher.

Hey, it's no additional cost, but only who uses it...

---

Seems to me, and I'm just the "anti guy", but I've got to wonder why the license to the Intel compiler was donated to "Chicken of Angnor", and not to UCB?

Seems if UCB had the license, it could be used to build optimed apps for crunchers and available to all as the "standard app". Seems a better donation of the licence, for "the science" or "for the credits", would have been to get this compiler to UCB.

All I can ask, is why this wasn't done? Does UCB reject a client built with the Intel compiler? It seems to me, that in the best interest of the project, getting the license in the hands of the UCB developers would make a bit more sense than getting into the hands of someone hacking the code.

The licence, as it was based on donations, to me, seems like should be used by Eric et al, and not for a non-standard version of the cruncher.

Hey, it's no additional cost, but only who uses it...

Just from following a bit of the thread...Because he cares enough to make a client we all can use? Why aren't you?

---

Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
And no good credit hound!

Ned

I looked and then got sidetracked with collecting statistics for Eric... My first thought was good and there must be a way that a "smart user could signup the regular "check donation" information." I was so busy that I did not have time to persue it.. The obvious thing would be and people that were able to get merchandise to "ISoldIt" may not have the tax writeoff if they are in the US... But if the care about Seti, that should be no big deal...

It does deserve more exploration... Currently I do not have the time...

Snippage
Ned

I don't disagree. Just saying that somewhere on campus are the folks who have the bank account(s), and they hold purse strings -- if they don't buy into PayPal, it won't happen.

I posted earlier about the "isoldit" stores and their fundraising efforts, you could drop off your "junque" and they'll sell it and give the money to your designated cause -- but the cause has to sign up. It'd be the same deal.

Pappa

---

Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

I thought you were arguing not to donate to UCB anyway - make up your mind!!!

Just like Tetsuji, Simon (Chicken of Angnor) has put in a lot of effort to do something extra for a small group of people on a personal basis. Without asking, Simon received appreciation from these people in the form of monetary contributions towards his expenses.

How you can justify that ALL monies donated for SETI or BOINC should go through UCB is beyond me, and basically laughable. Do you think that UCB would have taken a few hundred dollars and specifically gone out and bought an Intel Compiler and libraries, then spent many man-hours reworking code to come up with the ultimate optimised version for very specific processors, leaving out Solaris and Apple platforms??? I think not - they have many more pressing jobs to get on with.

Do you think that the $,000's of dollars I have spent on hardware over the past 7 years should have been donated through UCB too? Maybe if all the millions of users donated all their kit to UCB, they could build a warehouse and put it all in... Then they could send us a snail-mail letter once a year and tell us how they're getting on???

Lastly, another point you seemed to have missed with the dictatorial nature of your comments - it's our money, and we can do what we want with it! SETI will be benefiting from this work in terms of doubling the WU throughput of Simon's optimised users, and the overflow of donations is being passed to SETI.

To answer your question - Why wasn't it done? It wasn't done because it's not a good idea... Marx, Lenin, Starlin and Tung had a go at this sort of idea - never really worked did it...

Seems to me, and I'm just the "anti guy", but I've got to wonder why the license to the Intel compiler was donated to "Chicken of Angnor", and not to UCB?

Seems if UCB had the license, it could be used to build optimed apps for crunchers and available to all as the "standard app". Seems a better donation of the licence, for "the science" or "for the credits", would have been to get this compiler to UCB.

All I can ask, is why this wasn't done? Does UCB reject a client built with the Intel compiler? It seems to me, that in the best interest of the project, getting the license in the hands of the UCB developers would make a bit more sense than getting into the hands of someone hacking the code.

The licence, as it was based on donations, to me, seems like should be used by Eric et al, and not for a non-standard version of the cruncher.

Hey, it's no additional cost, but only who uses it...

---

The licence, as it was based on donations, to me, seems like should be used by Eric et al, and not for a non-standard version of the cruncher.

Hey, it's no additional cost, but only who uses it...

I think I'll quote Eric Korpela here (this is from the boinc_opt mailing list, asked by Charles Elliott)

Moreover, in the studies I have read the Intel tools are the
best in the industry and produce the fastest executables.

Most of the time we have to develop to the most common tools rather
than the fastest. The cost in my time required to switch compilers is
far larger than the cost of the compiler. GCC, OTOH, works everywhere
on every platform.

That lists one of the bigger problems going this way - it'll take way too much time to get it incorporated into the official builds right now - that's a project for the future.

This is from direct email:

In addition, I'd like to ask how you feel about someone paying for an
educational-type license for ICC and IPP and offering X86 builds (and maybe OS X, as
they now support it) and using this compiler and library package to release the
official BOINC-distributed Apps. This License would be made out to the Seti project,
of course. Build scripts to automate this already exist.

That's a good idea, but I'm not sure whether SETI@home falls into the
academic use license terms. Before spending any money the buyers
should check the license terms.

So: why not give the license to UCB/Seti@Home/Eric Korpela?

Simple: a personal-type license would not be applicable (not to mention I can only transfer my license with prior written approval by Intel).

An academic-type license can not be bought by me for UCB, it'd have to be them doing the buying.
Also, I'm reasonably sure that a "floating" type license would be what's best here, be it academic or not. Let's see, Shop Intel doesn't even list prices for floating type license (one that can be used on more than one host and by more than one person). Personally, I don't think they'll be cheaper than the personal licenses I bought.

Like SwissNic said, I'm donating any overflow back to Seti@Home. Also, I'll try and offer a compiler service - if your Seti@Home sources are quicker (and provide valid results), I'll be glad to compile and distribute them for you.

In no way am I giving up on getting Seti@Home their own licenses. Do you remember that was one of my main points before? I haven't forgotten about it.

Also, why don't you donate to the project? Asking the "uncomfortable" questions (some of them a bit redundant, if you ask me) seems to be your forte, but answering...er...not really, hm.

Regards,
Simon.

---

Donate to SETI@Home via PayPal!

Optimized SETI@Home apps + Information

Ned

I looked and then got sidetracked with collecting statistics for Eric... My first thought was good and there must be a way that a "smart user could signup the regular "check donation" information." I was so busy that I did not have time to persue it.. The obvious thing would be and people that were able to get merchandise to "ISoldIt" may not have the tax writeoff if they are in the US... But if the care about Seti, that should be no big deal...

It does deserve more exploration... Currently I do not have the time...

I know this won't work for everybody, and may not even be worth the trouble ultimately.

It may be trivially easy, and then again, it may require a signature from someone at UCB -- someone in the central donations office.

---

The licence, as it was based on donations, to me, seems like should be used by Eric et al, and not for a non-standard version of the cruncher.

Hey, it's no additional cost, but only who uses it...

I think I'll quote Eric Korpela here (this is from the boinc_opt mailing list, asked by Charles Elliott)

Moreover, in the studies I have read the Intel tools are the
best in the industry and produce the fastest executables.

Most of the time we have to develop to the most common tools rather
than the fastest. The cost in my time required to switch compilers is
far larger than the cost of the compiler. GCC, OTOH, works everywhere
on every platform.

... much snipped.

The other issue is, at least right now, anything that SETI is officially distributing must run on the least-common-denominator -- the least capable processor that will run Windows 95.

That means no SSE, or SSE2 or 3DNow, or anything like that unless it can somehow be detected inside the app. and work from there.

Most of the "compiler-type" operations are specific to the processor model.

Other optimizations do smarter processing, and aren't CPU-specific, but those are already in the standard client.

The current BOINC alpha versions are more CPU-aware. This appears to be a move toward delivering a more tailored application to the end-users -- all of them.

So, basically, if you want the very best app. for your particular machine, you're going to have to go through a certain amount of pain. Things will get better eventually.

---

Seems to me, and I'm just the "anti guy", but I've got to wonder why the license to the Intel compiler was donated to "Chicken of Angnor", and not to UCB?

Seems if UCB had the license, it could be used to build optimized apps for crunchers and available to all as the "standard app". Seems a better donation of the licence, for "the science" or "for the credits", would have been to get this compiler to UCB.

All I can ask, is why this wasn't done? Does UCB reject a client built with the Intel compiler? It seems to me, that in the best interest of the project, getting the license in the hands of the UCB developers would make a bit more sense than getting into the hands of someone hacking the code.

The licence, as it was based on donations, to me, seems like should be used by Eric et al, and not for a non-standard version of the cruncher.

Hey, it's no additional cost, but only who uses it...

The very fact that Boinc S@H Enhanced (and the previous Boinc S@H) is an OPEN SOURCE project and by design, counts on volunteer contributions and collaborative efforts to improve the project is enough to justify the motivations, decisions, and efforts made. Eric had this posted as a sticky "front and center" for almost a month.

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=31734#332619

The hacking (as you refer) by a distinguished list of tireless contributors has allowed the project to leverage the talents of individuals worldwide and accomplish substantially more work for less $$$ than what would have been done keeping the source w/in a closed community w/ the same limited human & financial resources. The success of this project lies w/ those that "DO", whether paid professionals or volunteers.

---