I understand what SETI is trying to do...using millions of "clustered" machines to crunch data is a great use of resources, especially when they don't have to pay for the CPU time...
However, the number of frustrated people getting the "retry delayed" or -106 or the 500 error where they have an idle computer sitting there, and watch their "perfect record" or crunching data on the old system go down the drain will only hurt the program in the long run.
What I want to know is, why, if the old system was running so well, did they change to BONIC?
And why didn't BONIC go through a beta testing phase BEFORE they dumped the legacy system?
I love running SETI, have done so for many years, since some of the first days...but now, I don't see results like I used to, and the legacy system (for the past month) has told me that I am re-running the same data, over and over...
The new system doens't connect, it doesn't show the screen saver consistently, and it isn't "transparent" like the legacy system...
So I am not happy...but I have hope that it will improve and my 106 problem will go away...
BTW, does anyone from SETI or BONIC actually read these threads?

---

I understand what SETI is trying to do...using millions of "clustered" machines to crunch data is a great use of resources, especially when they don't have to pay for the CPU time...
However, the number of frustrated people getting the "retry delayed" or -106 or the 500 error where they have an idle computer sitting there, and watch their "perfect record" or crunching data on the old system go down the drain will only hurt the program in the long run.
What I want to know is, why, if the old system was running so well, did they change to BONIC?
And why didn't BONIC go through a beta testing phase BEFORE they dumped the legacy system?
I love running SETI, have done so for many years, since some of the first days...but now, I don't see results like I used to, and the legacy system (for the past month) has told me that I am re-running the same data, over and over...
The new system doens't connect, it doesn't show the screen saver consistently, and it isn't "transparent" like the legacy system...
So I am not happy...but I have hope that it will improve and my 106 problem will go away...
BTW, does anyone from SETI or BONIC actually read these threads?

---

I understand what SETI is trying to do...using millions of "clustered" machines to crunch data is a great use of resources, especially when they don't have to pay for the CPU time...
However, the number of frustrated people getting the "retry delayed" or -106 or the 500 error where they have an idle computer sitting there, and watch their "perfect record" or crunching data on the old system go down the drain will only hurt the program in the long run.
What I want to know is, why, if the old system was running so well, did they change to BONIC?
And why didn't BONIC go through a beta testing phase BEFORE they dumped the legacy system?
I love running SETI, have done so for many years, since some of the first days...but now, I don't see results like I used to, and the legacy system (for the past month) has told me that I am re-running the same data, over and over...
The new system doens't connect, it doesn't show the screen saver consistently, and it isn't "transparent" like the legacy system...
So I am not happy...but I have hope that it will improve and my 106 problem will go away...
BTW, does anyone from SETI or BONIC actually read these threads?

---

I understand what SETI is trying to do...using millions of "clustered" machines to crunch data is a great use of resources, especially when they don't have to pay for the CPU time...
However, the number of frustrated people getting the "retry delayed" or -106 or the 500 error where they have an idle computer sitting there, and watch their "perfect record" or crunching data on the old system go down the drain will only hurt the program in the long run.
What I want to know is, why, if the old system was running so well, did they change to BONIC?
And why didn't BONIC go through a beta testing phase BEFORE they dumped the legacy system?
I love running SETI, have done so for many years, since some of the first days...but now, I don't see results like I used to, and the legacy system (for the past month) has told me that I am re-running the same data, over and over...
The new system doens't connect, it doesn't show the screen saver consistently, and it isn't "transparent" like the legacy system...
So I am not happy...but I have hope that it will improve and my 106 problem will go away...
BTW, does anyone from SETI or BONIC actually read these threads?

---

I understand what SETI is trying to do...using millions of "clustered" machines to crunch data is a great use of resources, especially when they don't have to pay for the CPU time...
However, the number of frustrated people getting the "retry delayed" or -106 or the 500 error where they have an idle computer sitting there, and watch their "perfect record" or crunching data on the old system go down the drain will only hurt the program in the long run.
What I want to know is, why, if the old system was running so well, did they change to BONIC?
And why didn't BONIC go through a beta testing phase BEFORE they dumped the legacy system?
I love running SETI, have done so for many years, since some of the first days...but now, I don't see results like I used to, and the legacy system (for the past month) has told me that I am re-running the same data, over and over...
The new system doens't connect, it doesn't show the screen saver consistently, and it isn't "transparent" like the legacy system...
So I am not happy...but I have hope that it will improve and my 106 problem will go away...
BTW, does anyone from SETI or BONIC actually read these threads?

---

Hey Randy,

Lighten up! 4 posts but no comments? Are you trying to waste people's time or what?

---

There seem to be 2 kinds of SETI@home users: those who are happily crunching numbers downloaded with BOINC, and those who are so frustrated by the hassles of BOINC that they're ready to give up.

The former seem to have no sympathy at all for the latter. Too often they post condescending messages that imply that the latter are stupid, lazy, inept, and/or impatient. FWIW, I've tried several times to use BOINC. I've tried logging in with the access code, with my old password, with a new password. I've removed and reinstalled BOINC, downloaded the newest version and installed that. I can't even get SETI@home to recognize my login. Is that BOINC's fault? I have no idea and I don't really care.

I don't know why SETI@home switched software because nobody has bothered to explain it. Like many users, I've crunched data since mid-1999 and was diligent about downloading new work units. When I got a new computer I networked with the old and put them both to work.

In short, I'm a bit tired of all the finger pointing and innuendoes. After 6 1/2 years of dedication to the project I think I deserve a lot more respect and consideration than I'm getting. I think I speak for all of us frustrated users.

I agree 120% with this. I used SETI@home for several years on several PCs with rarely a glitch. Having followed the instructions to instal BONK (or whatever it's called) it hogs resources, has taken forever to process the two units it's managed to deal with in the past several weeks (compared with 2-4 units per day with SETI@home) and regularly demands to be connected to the net at which point it sits on my only phone line doing absolutely nothing for an hour or more until I am forced to disconnect it to conserve my mounting phone bill. Awful, awful, awful. I really do not care whether this piece of so-called software is designed and supported by two dedicated volunteers or 200 technical and software engineering experts from MIT. It isn't as user friendly, easy to use and effective as SETI@home and it should not have been released. Whatever the limitations of SETI@home, it worked well and was ideal for the millions wishing to contribute their computer time and resources *voluntarily*. I was proud to be contributing to what I considered as a monumentally important scientific/social endeavour - but I feel this new software is not much short of being given 'the finger' by the SETI team. Thanks a lot!

Dave Coleman
London, UK

Well having run Seti since 1999 and other than a few outages it has run flawlessly.

I agree 120% with this. I used SETI@home for several years on several PCs with rarely a glitch.

few outages: ahhhhahhhhah...
http://seticlassic.ssl.berkeley.edu/tech_news99.html
have you read the whole thread before posting a new message?
For example:
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=24101#206264

seti classic without an external program to do the cache is very a disaster, a lot of outages that keep our PC off load for days.

---

Well having run Seti since 1999 and other than a few outages it has run flawlessly.

I agree 120% with this. I used SETI@home for several years on several PCs with rarely a glitch.

few outages: ahhhhahhhhah...
http://seticlassic.ssl.berkeley.edu/tech_news99.html
have you read the whole thread before posting a new message?
For example:
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=24101#206264

seti classic without an external program to do the cache is very a disaster, a lot of outages that keep our PC off load for days.

And your point is? Sorry, but if the best you can do is some sarcastic gurgle then you simply re-inforce the point made by Paul Martos about the condescending attitude of some users. When I say "rarely" I mean "rarely". Yes, there were times when the SETI@home server wouldn't respond but that rapidly (I repeat, rapidly) led to an 'error' message to tell me that I couldn't get a connection. BOINC simply requests a line then does nothing - at least that's what it does most of the time (apart from the two units I've managed to squeeze from it over a period of about two weeks).

Dave Coleman
London

few outages: ahhhhahhhhah...
http://seticlassic.ssl.berkeley.edu/tech_news99.html
have you read the whole thread before posting a new message?
For example:
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=24101#206264

seti classic without an external program to do the cache is very a disaster, a lot of outages that keep our PC off load for days.

This is what I was talking about. SETI Classic is a "disaster"? Funny, nobody told me that for 6 1/2 years! In fact I kept visiting their site and they seemed ecstatic with the results they were getting. I was pleased to help.

Now, I'm not, and I don't think anybody at SETI even cares.

---

I also was a happy user of "classic" SETI for over 6 Years.
Almost never had problems.

Since running BOINC, I seem to almost never being able to get/upload work from SETI. At the same time, connecting to/getting work from/uploading to the other "Providers" (LHC, ...) works flawlessly.

To me, this strongly indicates that the problem is with SETI, not BOINC.

The consequence is that I just removed SETI from ALL my computers. Sorry, when SETI gets their act together again, then perhaps I will resume doing work for SETI.
In the Meantime, there are other usefull things to be done apart from wasting resources in trying to connect to SETI !

My error Messages are all of the following types:
28.Dec.2005 08:33:07|SETI@home|Scheduler request to http://setiboinc.ssl.berkeley.edu/sah_cgi/cgi failed with a return value of -106
28.Dec.2005 09:17:07|SETI@home|Scheduler request to http://setiboinc.ssl.berkeley.edu/sah_cgi/cgi failed with a return value of 500

Best Regards

Jean-Marie

---

I don't know why SETI@home switched software because nobody has bothered to explain it.

It was explained. .. That is a Post by Matt Lebofsky, which was lifted from the forums here.

Now about the rest of your personal complaints, you have made 7 posts, none of which are asking for help in a normal way. The first one had the nice title of "BOINC Blows", which we come running to to help you out with.. really.

The rest of your posts have been your in a form that is undescribable. If you tried it at a phone helpdesk, they'd put your number on ignore. And probably rightly so.

These forums are manned by the same volunteers that run the program. We aren't paid by UCB to help you out. Don't be misleaded by that volunteer tester tag of mine, it just says I (Alpha)test the software. So with a next new version coming, I really have the chance I have to reformat my system when things go seriously wrong. Yet I chose for that option.

The former seem to have no sympathy at all for the latter. Too often they post condescending messages that imply that the latter are stupid, lazy, inept, and/or impatient. FWIW, I've tried several times to use BOINC. I've tried logging in with the access code, with my old password, with a new password. I've removed and reinstalled BOINC, downloaded the newest version and installed that. I can't even get SETI@home to recognize my login. Is that BOINC's fault? I have no idea and I don't really care.

The last 4 words really warm my heart. Why would I want to help you if you do not care? Why would I want to help you if you do not ask for help in a normal way? Or answer any subseqquent questions asked...

But here goes:
Install BOINC, let it start up.
- If your firewall asks if Boinc.exe and Boincmgr.exe are allowed to play outside, let them.
- If you want to connect to the Seti project, go to Your Account.
- Change your password, type it in twice and hit the Change Password button.
Start Boinc Manager if it isn't open yet.
At the top menu bar, you see Projects (not the tab, but the menu bar), press it.
Select Attach to project.
- Type in, or copy & paste: http://setiathome.berkeley.edu
- Press Next.
- Press the radio button before "Use existing account"
- Fill in your email address (top of the page) and the password you just set at the Seti page.
- Press Next.

That should attach you to Seti.

If it does not, go to the Messages tab in Boinc Manager and copy the messages from there, then post them here for one of us to look over. Please post them in a new thread, not in this one!

---

Sorry, but if the best you can do is some sarcastic gurgle
...
When I say "rarely" I mean "rarely". Yes, there were times when the SETI@home server wouldn't respond but that rapidly (I repeat, rapidly) led to an 'error' message to tell me that I couldn't get a connection.

Just immediately after my laugh (originated from a lie) there was a link with all the seti classic outages.
The seti classic forums was filled with questions about these continue outages.
So the best I can do (and I done) is to invite you, again, to read the whoole thread, or minimum the whoole previuos post, before post a new one.
This is not a complain forum is a Q&P forum so use for this only.

If you need help please post your message tab log.
If we (normal user) can, we are happy to help you.
And when you are more expert, we are kind to have you here to help other users.

If you complain and no more (only two your post here), this is not the place for you.

---

Just immediately after my laugh (originated from a lie) there was a link with all the seti classic outages.

This is not a complain forum is a Q&P forum so use for this only.

If we (normal user) can, we are happy to help you.
And when you are more expert, we are kind to have you here to help other users.

If you complain and no more (only two your post here), this is not the place for you.
[/quote]

I am not sure how to interpret your reply as it could be implying that, firstly, I am a liar and second, that I am somehow not a "normal user" (if helping the search for LGMs can be considered 'normal'). Were you implying I was a liar then we would be at the start of a flame war. This would be a pointless and very unproductive outcome. So, I shall avoid any further unpleasantness and simply suggest your posting could have been written more clearly.

Unfortunately, this forum appears to be the only outlet to communicate my current frustration at trying to use the BOINC software package. No doubt if and/or when I get the package to operate in a more congenial fashion (maybe later today, tomorrow, next week/month?) I will be more than willing to communicate my happiness with it. But while it tells me (regularly) something like:

19/12/05 14:52:17 SETI@home Started download of blah blah blah

and then hangs and appears happy to remain in that state until the heat death of the Universe (or a flying saucer lands in my back garden) I shall probably feel the need to complain and whinge (sad individual that I am). But, be assured, I have stated my case and do not feel the need to state it further. I will either see some useful information on the SETI site that will help resolve my problems or not: in which case I will simply give up on SETI and look out for a BOINC project on how to make the perfect donut.

David Coleman
London

Unfortunately, this forum appears to be the only outlet to communicate my current frustration at trying to use the BOINC software package.

You can also post at the Number Crunching forums now you have credits. Or go to the BOINC forums, if you truely have a grievance about the BOINC package.

But I would advice to say what's wrong then and preferably how it can be made better in your opinion. Just saying that it should be done better isn't going to help, as we read that multiple times a day. So make a plan, tell what isn't working and how it should be changed without a complete rewrite of the whole software.

No doubt if and/or when I get the package to operate in a more congenial fashion (maybe later today, tomorrow, next week/month?) I will be more than willing to communicate my happiness with it. But while it tells me (regularly) something like:

19/12/05 14:52:17 SETI@home Started download of blah blah blah

You could start your own thread and tell us in consice words what isn't working. Give us a lot more messages from the Messages tab, not just an edited one.
It's like saying you got a Windows Blue Screen of Death, without telling what it said, which Windows you run and what you were doing when you had it. How do you ever get help on that?

Now, you're on the Help Desk forums. Start your own thread and ask for help.
There are plenty of people around who may want to try to help you, but before any of us can do so, we need information from you.

---

I don't know why SETI@home switched software because nobody has bothered to explain it.

It was explained. .. That is a Post by Matt Lebofsky, which was lifted from the forums here.

Now about the rest of your personal complaints, you have made 7 posts, none of which are asking for help in a normal way. The first one had the nice title of "BOINC Blows", which we come running to to help you out with.. really.

The rest of your posts have been your in a form that is undescribable. If you tried it at a phone helpdesk, they'd put your number on ignore. And probably rightly so.

These forums are manned by the same volunteers that run the program. We aren't paid by UCB to help you out. Don't be misleaded by that volunteer tester tag of mine, it just says I (Alpha)test the software. So with a next new version coming, I really have the chance I have to reformat my system when things go seriously wrong. Yet I chose for that option.

The former seem to have no sympathy at all for the latter. Too often they post condescending messages that imply that the latter are stupid, lazy, inept, and/or impatient. FWIW, I've tried several times to use BOINC. I've tried logging in with the access code, with my old password, with a new password. I've removed and reinstalled BOINC, downloaded the newest version and installed that. I can't even get SETI@home to recognize my login. Is that BOINC's fault? I have no idea and I don't really care.

The last 4 words really warm my heart. Why would I want to help you if you do not care? Why would I want to help you if you do not ask for help in a normal way? Or answer any subseqquent questions asked...

But here goes:
Install BOINC, let it start up.
- If your firewall asks if Boinc.exe and Boincmgr.exe are allowed to play outside, let them.
- If you want to connect to the Seti project, go to Your Account.
- Change your password, type it in twice and hit the Change Password button.
Start Boinc Manager if it isn't open yet.
At the top menu bar, you see Projects (not the tab, but the menu bar), press it.
Select Attach to project.
- Type in, or copy & paste: http://setiathome.berkeley.edu
- Press Next.
- Press the radio button before "Use existing account"
- Fill in your email address (top of the page) and the password you just set at the Seti page.
- Press Next.

That should attach you to Seti.

If it does not, go to the Messages tab in Boinc Manager and copy the messages from there, then post them here for one of us to look over. Please post them in a new thread, not in this one!

I never saw that explanation for the switch to BOINC before, although I looked. But I suppose I didn't look hard enough, right?

I already did everything you suggested, except the very last, and I've said so. It doesn't work. Do you think I'm THAT stupid? Like the other frustrated users here, I really want this to work and have tried to make it work, and instead of good answers we get attitudes.

Your comment about the delpdesk was interesting. I've never had a problem with any kind of tech support, because they actually LISTEN to me and TRY to help.

When I said I didn't care, I meant that I don't care what is causing the problem, I just want it fixed. But you seized upon those words to throw in some more sarcasm.

Gee, I'm sorry you're a poor overworked volunteer and find people like me annoying. How do I ask for help in a "normal" way, anyway? I guess describing my problems wasn't it. Should I have said "please"?

Listen, we're ALL volunteers! You volunteer your time, we volunteer our computers. You don't want to do it? Then do something else.

That's what I'm going to do. Like others, I've had it. After 6 1/2 years my volunteering is done. I'm going to delete everything concerning SETI.

---

oooohhhh, freee....
I think the volounteers are people that had posted al least a thousand messages in forum.
So a real big thanks to people that help a lot all the others,
a greet to people that kind ask help posting the message log,
and bye bye to the others.

---

I don't know what to expect to see on my screen when I try to run Boinc. I recieve a list of things it's doing, but doesn't explain anything about uploading, or downloading. I don't see any graphs. What am I doing wrong. I did attach from my Setiathome Classic. I also might have 2 account numbers, as I tried to install this program a few month's ago. I hope you can figure what I may have done wrong- clint Chichester. I entered the Setiathome URL and it connected, but when I entered the http://boinc.setiathome.berkeley.eduIt said it was the wrong URL. I also entered http://boinc.berkeley.EDU

aCC #dcc3288b49fa1f3167d5c9e6709233

WEENIE

---

Starting from the beginning, skip those parts you done already:

Install BOINC, let it start up.
- If your firewall asks if Boinc.exe and Boincmgr.exe are allowed to play outside, let them.
- If you want to connect to the Seti project, go to Your Account.
- Change your password, type it in twice and hit the Change Password button.
Start Boinc Manager if it isn't open yet.
At the top menu bar, you see Projects (not the tab, but the menu bar), press it.
Select Attach to project.
- Type in, or copy & paste: http://setiathome.berkeley.edu
- Press Next.
- Press the (round) radio button before "Use existing account"
- Fill in your email address (top of the page) and the password you just set at the Seti page.
- Press Next.

That should attach you to Seti.

If it does not, go to the Messages tab in Boinc Manager and copy the messages from there, then post them here for one of us to look ove

---

[quote]Unfortunately, this forum appears to be the only outlet to communicate my current frustration at trying to use the BOINC software package.

You can also post at the Number Crunching forums now you have credits. Or go to the BOINC forums, if you truely have a grievance about the BOINC package.

But I would advice to say what's wrong then and preferably how it can be made better in your opinion. Just saying that it should be done better isn't going to help, as we read that multiple times a day. So make a plan, tell what isn't working and how it should be changed without a complete rewrite of the whole software.

=== I hear what you are saying but I am not a software engineer I'm a volunteer user. I can, of course, tell you what I want it to do but not how to make it do that.

OK, here's something that does not appear to be working: one very frustrating aspect is the deferred download followed by the 'do-nothing-at-the-end-of-it experience' - BOINC manager has a button under the Projects tab called "Update" which, on mouseover, says "blah blah blah, and possibly get more work".

Now, as is typically the case, BOINC manager has been squeeking away about it needs to get more work but doesn't get it. So I hit the Update button and it then defers talking to the server for another 10 minutes (costing me more money on the phone line unless I log off for 10 minutes). Just before the ten minutes is up, I log back on and then, typically, get a message like the one I got today:

16/01/06 09:11:55|SETI@home|Resuming computation for result 19ja05aa.7741.3202.298580.1.216_1 using setiathome version 418
16/01/06 09:11:55||Resuming computation and network activity
16/01/06 09:11:55||request_reschedule_cpus: Resuming activities
16/01/06 09:11:56|SETI@home|Sending scheduler request to http://setiboinc.ssl.berkeley.edu/sah_cgi/cgi
16/01/06 09:11:56|SETI@home|Reason: Requested by user
16/01/06 09:11:56|SETI@home|Note: not requesting new work or reporting results
16/01/06 09:12:01|SETI@home|Scheduler request to http://setiboinc.ssl.berkeley.edu/sah_cgi/cgi succeeded
16/01/06 09:22:10|SETI@home|Sending scheduler request to http://setiboinc.ssl.berkeley.edu/sah_cgi/cgi
16/01/06 09:22:10|SETI@home|Reason: To fetch work
16/01/06 09:22:10|SETI@home|Requesting 14813 seconds of new work
16/01/06 09:22:15|SETI@home|Scheduler request to http://setiboinc.ssl.berkeley.edu/sah_cgi/cgi succeeded
16/01/06 09:22:15|SETI@home|No work from project

Note that the BOINC manager has told me it wants to connect to download more work. Mousing over the icon in the system tray also gets a message for more work. But what does the above message say? No work from Project (in red too!). Blood pressure goes up several points and my enthusiasm for the project drops yet another couple of notches. You tell me whether or not I am being unreasonable about feeling peeved with the software.

***Can't we have a button that can kick the server into delivering a work unit - a bit like kicking a mail client? *** I simply do not understand how I am meant to get new work units without suffering a coronary.

Alternatively, could the "and possibly get more work" bit of the Update button mouse over be amended to read "and possibly get more work but all-in-all most probably not"?

More often than not I have to exit the manager and BOINC completely because they've locked up (again) and then connect to the internet *then* restart BOINC manager and once in no less than 4-5 attempts at this process I may get a download. If I start BOINC then make a connection then I have no chance at all of a download.

So, I am not sorry to say that I do miss the old package which *for me* worked very well and was far more user friendly. Back end maintenance may well have been a pig to deal with but I found the front end an absolute piece of cake for the downloading public like myself. But I recognise that those days have gone and we have to deal with this new package. So, here are some suggestions about SETI BOINC.

1. I would like just one screen, not multiple tabs. I don't need or want them. I would like a dedicated SETI interface.
2. I would like something that will download a new workunit on completion of the old one not one that says it's going to download then doesn't unless I exit the whole shebang and log on several times. I don't want to defer a connection because if it can't download pretty much within a minute or two I have better things to do than leave my phone line eating my salary cheque.
3. I would like to know how many work units I have processed. I have looked at the weird grey graphs with yellow line on the "Statistics" tab and they mean nothing to me. Absolutely zip! I have read the web site explanation (then taken paracetamol for the headache) and credits still mean nothing to me. I do not understand. I had completed 3,710 SETI@home classic work units and used 68,256 hours of CPU time - *that* I can understand but it doesn't seem to have any value under BOINC. I am sure credits are an awfully clever idea but I don't want awfully clever I want simple. Am I alone in this?

Does this require a complete rewrite of the software?

Dave Coleman
London