OK, i'm a bit new at this "farm" thingy. How many PC's does it take to say you are running a "farm" and does it ever become a "ranch" or do we just stick with the term "farm". Ricky

Yes, upto 3, or 5 I forget, machines makes you a "gardener", upto 15 makes you a "farmer" and over 15 makes you a "rancher". I do not know after that.

KOOL! That means I own a "small" farm! i'm rich! (Wonder how much money I could get if I went to market?) :)

Ricky

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OK, i'm a bit new at this "farm" thingy. How many PC's does it take to say you are running a "farm" and does it ever become a "ranch" or do we just stick with the term "farm". Ricky

Yes, upto 3, or 5 I forget, machines makes you a "gardener", upto 15 makes you a "farmer" and over 15 makes you a "rancher". I do not know after that.

Interesting... This is the first time I have read about these differences. Up until now, I had only seen the term "farm". But then again, I hardly ever read the other fora other than "Number Crunching" and the "Help Desk" areas. I guess I should branch out a bit. I would then be classified as a "rancher" with my 20 machines. It took YEARS to get this equipment together. I started with SETI Classic in May of 1999 with only one machine. For the last couple of years, I have been working for a small local computer builder/fixer/ISP, so I get an employee discount on all my hardware and software purchases. This is a big help in building a decent "ranch". I am about at my limits as far as quantity of machines goes, unless I hire an electrician to upgrade the house from the present 100 Amp service to 150-200 Amp service. WAY too EXPENSIVE! My 3.1Kva UPS unit is on a 30 Amp circuit all by itself, and it is at MAX load. If the power goes out, I have 5 minutes to shut down the machines. And only 14 boxes are connected to it. 3 others are on a 1.2Kva UPS on a different circuit, and the other 3 are just on surge suppressors until I get another 1.5Kva UPS. So the only thing I can do now, is to replace my older, slower machines with newer, faster ones. Obviously, the electric bill around here is pretty hefty, but as I tell my family if they complain: "Would you rather have me spent that money at the tavern?" This always quiets them down ;)

Regards, Daniel.

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All this farm talk makes me think it would be great if someone would post a design for building a solar power system specifically for powering a seti farm. If there is expertise out there, I for one would like to see some ideas.

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May this Farce be with You

Interesting... This is the first time I have read about these differences. Up until now, I had only seen the term "farm".
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Same here, I've never heard or seen anybody post that they had a Ranch or they were a Gardener, all I've ever seen is the Farm Terminology used when somebody posted about their Computers ... I don't know if I have a Farm or not, to me it's a Pigs Pen most of the Time so I guess it's part of a Farm anyway ... ;)

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All this farm talk makes me think it would be great if someone would post a design for building a solar power system specifically for powering a seti farm. If there is expertise out there, I for one would like to see some ideas.

I second that...

.oO(should I tell'em about my electric bill?)

I have one Seti only box using Windows XP so that means I have a windows pot?
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solar power system specifically for powering a Seti farm
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The solar cells will false before the pay back point. Unless you live in Afghanistan or one of the place were the power bill is 30 times what I pay in Ohio.
Want the cheapest alternative power at this time? Think windmills. They work at night to.

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I like to see what computers people are using and I am so surprised to see that some users have like 20-30 machines. And some have multiple flagship machines like Athlon X2's and Pentium 800 series dual cores. I wish I could have that kind of set up. Well maybe one day right. :)

Depends...
Building and upgrading my setup to the current levels took some 6 years, and I'm currently at the point where TOC (Total Cost of Ownership) due to Energy Costs and the heat production (Thermal Management) in Summer are the definitive limiting factors

There is a downside to everything I guess

>
>
Im in the same boat. I have even had to add breakers to my main service panel at my home. Falcon I like your setup I think I asked you once before. How do you set up all your computers to show up with all your cpus and stuff? I am networked as single useres on all computers in case of hak attack they could only access 1 computer not entire network.

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I like to see what computers people are using and I am so surprised to see that some users have like 20-30 machines. And some have multiple flagship machines like Athlon X2's and Pentium 800 series dual cores. I wish I could have that kind of set up. Well maybe one day right. :)

Certaintly there are some individuals with 10s of systems at home, I know of at least one with ~60 boxes all over the house.

There are also many participants who either have total control of IT in their companies or schools, or have permission to do what they like. These often have 10s or even 100s of PCs to run on.

Some people are like BOINC bumblebees, flitting from system to system installing BOINC and SETI on every computer they walk by.

Probably without permission.

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Some people are like BOINC bumblebees, flitting from system to system installing BOINC and SETI on every computer they walk by.
Probably without permission.

I WISH I could get permission to run Boinc on the machines at work! I am in charge of 1200 machines! My numbers would scream and Berkeley would run out of work in no time flat!!!
But I work for a Department in a local County Government in the US and NO WAY would they let me run it on the machines. I have to be content to run it on just my home machines.
And YES I REALLY do have all those, and a few more, machines in my home.

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Im in the same boat. I have even had to add breakers to my main service panel at my home. Falcon I like your setup I think I asked you once before. How do you set up all your computers to show up with all your cpus and stuff? I am networked as single useres on all computers in case of hak attack they could only access 1 computer not entire network.

Nothing fancy, all is still entered and updated manually (easy 30 Second job, since I usually only shutdown everything when I leave for a longer time).

I'm sure it would be quite easy to create a dynamic Page, based on available Tools (I've used remote Host Monitoring including Health status in the past, one could even present each System's Uptime or alike).
But since I'm on DSL and treat it like a Dial-Up line, the Network isn't connected to the Internet for ~50% of the time, so a permanent/real-time Update of that little Page wouldn't work. It's just easier for me to quickly update the Page once a while, not worth the hassle otherwise :)

Only my Main machine has Internet and Firewall, the Net behind it is "Green" (only the one other remaining Windows box has its own Firewall as well). The Linux Boxes and the remaining SGI are remote controlled with SSH and standard password protected... Remote File access is restricted to the TMP and BOINC working spaces.

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The solar cells will false before the pay back point.

You must be getting your power for next to nothing then.
Pretty much everywhere else on the planet you'd reach the break even point in less than 10 years.

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Grant
Darwin NT

All this farm talk makes me think it would be great if someone would post a design for building a solar power system specifically for powering a seti farm. If there is expertise out there, I for one would like to see some ideas.

As was said before solar pannels can quit before you see a return, plus the even the BEST photo voltaics are only 25% efficient in engery conversion and those will cost you a fortune. Since solar panels are made up of thousands of photo votaics their efficiency is much less than that.

I am currently studying large and small scale power systems and did a project on wind turbines (not windmills...big difference)

while wind turbines are nice in that they work through the night there are alot of logistical and political restrictions on where they can be placed and their height (which is directly proportional to the ammount of ennegery that can be produced)

a 2000kW (single house) wind turbine needs to be between 30-75 meters tall and will cost approximately $50k USD to implement and will take ~30yrs to see a benefit from

a 660,000kW (small town) turbine needs to be between 100-300 meters tall and will cost about $700k USD and take about ~25yrs to pay for itself

the efficiency of wind turbines is much greater than solar panels but because of the complexity of the components wind turbines have a HUGE maintenance cost compared to solar panels


i will stop there before i go and reproduce my 100pg research project in the thread

if anyone want more details specifically regarding wind turbines then let me know and i will do what i can

citroja
anyone

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There are also many participants who either have total control of IT in their companies or schools, or have permission to do what they like. These often have 10s or even 100s of PCs to run on.

I don't like the idea of using the resources of others doing my work, that is bad style methinks.

As long as they agree to it (and know & understand what they're agreeing to) i can't see a problem. It's when people install the software without the permission or knowledge of the owners- that is just wrong.

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Grant
Darwin NT

I am currently studying large and small scale power systems and did a project on wind turbines (not windmills...big difference)

This may be of interest.

Australian Antartic energy supply

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Grant
Darwin NT

I am currently studying large and small scale power systems and did a project on wind turbines (not windmills...big difference)

This may be of interest.

Australian Antartic energy supply

I appreciate it...this would have been nice for my project...

citroja

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I agree that many of these people are using other peoples resources to crunch seti data. I also believe many of these people do not have permission to do so. Long ago I was browsing the SETI Classic website and found many IT professionals that were obviously working for city, state or federal agencies and using their (our) computers for SETI.

The idea behind boinc and DC projects is to better our understanding of the world around us via scientific research. It uses a "Wasted" resource in the form of CPU cycles on our computers.

running boinc costs nothing for gear, since it already exists (unless you specifically buy puters just for boinc as many, including myself, have done). Electrical costs of running the cpu at idle versus 100% is about 25% higher, so it's the ONLY costs associated with running boinc.

Everyone has a right to their own opinions, and here's mine. If all IT pros could somehow wrangle boinc onto every machine under their control (with the approval of management, of course) I would view that as a good thing. This includes governments, corporations, small companies, sole proprietorships, S Corps, etc.

Sure If this were just about competition it might be a bad thing, but this is about science. Not about us, not about the user.

"Thats your new opinion", by mmciastro. LOL (wgrd radio tag line, www.wgrd.com, grand rapids Michigan)

tony

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I agree that many of these people are using other peoples resources to crunch seti data. I also believe many of these people do not have permission to do so. Long ago I was browsing the SETI Classic website and found many IT professionals that were obviously working for city, state or federal agencies and using their (our) computers for SETI.

5 or so years ago when I first started SETI, I challenged a co-worker to try to beat me just for the fun of it. After a two week vacation I came back to find that he had surpassed me by 1200 wu! He just smiled and wouldn't say how he was doing it. Days later I met a stranger in the office who introduced himself as an outsourced IT expert hired to help figure out why all the office and warehouse computers had slowd down so much. It turns out (of course) that my friend had snuck around at night and put SETI on every computer in the building.

When the bean counters crunched all their numbers they figured it cost the company tens of thousands of dollars in various ways, not to mention the IT dude's fee. All in a company of less than 50 employees and in 20 days or so.

I sometimes wonder what that guy is doing for a living these days.

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Without love, breath is just a clock ... ticking.
Equilibrium

I agree that many of these people are using other peoples resources to crunch seti data. I also believe many of these people do not have permission to do so. Long ago I was browsing the SETI Classic website and found many IT professionals that were obviously working for city, state or federal agencies and using their (our) computers for SETI.

5 or so years ago when I first started SETI, I challenged a co-worker to try to beat me just for the fun of it. After a two week vacation I came back to find that he had surpassed me by 1200 wu! He just smiled and wouldn't say how he was doing it. Days later I met a stranger in the office who introduced himself as an outsourced IT expert hired to help figure out why all the office and warehouse computers had slowd down so much. It turns out (of course) that my friend had snuck around at night and put SETI on every computer in the building.

When the bean counters crunched all their numbers they figured it cost the company tens of thousands of dollars in various ways, not to mention the IT dude's fee. All in a company of less than 50 employees and in 20 days or so.

I sometimes wonder what that guy is doing for a living these days.

BY the way, SETI go a few dozen new crunchers from the debacle after they found out about the the project. If only he had asked.

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Without love, breath is just a clock ... ticking.
Equilibrium

I sometimes wonder what that guy is doing for a living these days.

As George Patton said he's shoving chit in Louisiana and I think we have all met him..