[quote]Grad student doesn't imply maturity - just a minimum level of intelligence.

I doesn't imply a minimum level of intelligence, it implies a minimum level of education.

You need a minimum level of intelligence to get into the good programs in the first place, as well as to complete them. Any schmo can get into college if they have enough money, but having money isn't an issue in grad school - if fact, I'm being paid to attend, through tuition remission and a stipend. I wouldn't have this wonderful opportunity if it weren't for my minimum level of intelligence.

However, I can see how some people in this thread might not like it. Earning a PhD would be an unfair distinction based on personal sacrifice, just like a green star. These people think nobody should be recognized for something that they themselves are not willing to do. As such, my PhD would be "unfair" in their twisted sense of "equality," just like the green star.

I think you may have misssed the point.

Suffice it to say if you had bought your PhD it would be the same as a green star award here - pay your money get your star even if you only have one credit. On the other hand if you put in the effort and sheer graft your way through getting it then you will be just like those without the green star here. You did the work and the got the result on merit no cash changed hands.

Tell us about your PhD please. I have supervised many through these programmes and am genuinely interested.

EDIT : To delete an uncalled for remark.

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Why is donating money an unacceptable means of contribution to the program? Every single one of us has a "green star" in the form of our credit numbers under our avatar. There is certainly "rank distinction" there - some people have many more credits than others.

As such, a green star simply signifies that someone has donated in another way. All the crunching in the world doesn't help the Seti team buy new hardware. They need multiple forms of donation.

The reason you find green stars so pernicious is because you accept as a given at the start that the point of the green star is a "higher rank." Thus, buying that rank seems odious. You need to reconceptualize it as people wanting to donate money to a project they love. The "rank" stigma is being appplied by people who don't want to donate the money, and they're trying to make donators look bad.

Furthermore, credit numbers are the same thing. People have a higher credit number because they can afford more computers and more electricity. How is this different than a green star? Both are "attaining a rank" in your perception through the expenditure of money.

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I served in the military, how would you feel if I started posting pics of my medals here & there...

I'd think you were clueless!

How would that be different? You think everyone is clueless.

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The reason you find green stars so pernicious is because you accept as a given at the start that the point of the green star is a "higher rank." Thus, buying that rank seems odious. You need to reconceptualize it as people wanting to donate money to a project they love. The "rank" stigma is being appplied by people who don't want to donate the money, and they're trying to make donators look bad.

I am not trying to make any one look bad. I am saying it introduces class to a culture where there was no class system. I find class to be sad and avoidable especially in the USA albeit I live in a class oriented society.

Look you donate if you want that's fine by me but I do not want to see a system that highlights the fact that I have not donated in a particular way. Especially when I have given lots in other ways.

Most of all if you can buy accolades like green stars then they must be cheap and not worth having.

Why not do it Siran's way - donate and say nothing; I admire that. Would it be fair to say that anything else is just an ego trip and kudos grabbing?

Edit: for spelling only

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For the sake of argument, let's use your contention regarding stars: that people use them to boost their ego, and that they create a class system.

Why is it wrong for a non-profit project to provide little "medals" for those who have contributed? When I donate blood I get a "I donated blood!" sticker. When I donated to hurricane relief I got a little star on the wall of the local supermarket. Why can't a non-profit organization play upon one's ego for a greater good?

Why should charity and non-profit science suffer just because you and others don't want to donate money? That's very pretentious.

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Why should charity and non-profit science suffer just because you and others don't want to donate money? That's very pretentious.

Prententious never. Why? 'Cos you just hit the nail on the head - perhaps some people cannot afford. As I say its about class systems. Thanks for your support for the argument.

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The Donation Drive has been very effective. Donations have gone WAY up since the introduction of the Star system. Most Crunchers dont think of SETI as being a Shoe String non profit organization. This kind of keeps it Fresh in peoples minds that it is. Thats kind of what it is. To make it Visible to Crunchers that they are on a Super Shoe String Budget and anything You can afford to donate will be appreciated. If You cant afford Money than Crunching time on your Computer (Wear And Tear And Electricity) is just as Appreciated. Thats next to your Avatar too.
_______________________________________________________________________________
Below is a history (starting November 2001) of donations made to SETI@home via the on-line form.
Many thanks to all those who contributed!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

November 2001: 2 donations totaling $ 50.00
December 2001: 6 donations totaling $ 590.00
January 2002: 10 donations totaling $ 675.00
February 2002: 85 donations totaling $ 4,590.00
March 2002: 19 donations totaling $ 1,440.00
April 2002: 6 donations totaling $ 490.00
May 2002: 12 donations totaling $ 585.00
June 2002: 8 donations totaling $ 335.00
July 2002: 5 donations totaling $ 429.00
August 2002: 7 donations totaling $ 300.00
September 2002: 10 donations totaling $ 641.00
October 2002: 34 donations totaling $ 2,652.00
November 2002: 17 donations totaling $ 765.00
December 2002: 14 donations totaling $ 880.00
January 2003: 6 donations totaling $ 260.00
February 2003: 11 donations totaling $ 485.00
March 2003: 12 donations totaling $ 775.00
April 2003: 11 donations totaling $ 575.00
May 2003: 14 donations totaling $ 1,655.00
June 2003: 5 donations totaling $ 250.00
July 2003: 7 donations totaling $ 195.00
August 2003: 5 donations totaling $ 385.00
September 2003: 4 donations totaling $ 175.00
October 2003: 3 donations totaling $ 125.00
November 2003: 4 donations totaling $ 275.00
December 2003: 10 donations totaling $ 615.00
January 2004: 9 donations totaling $ 410.00
February 2004: 3 donations totaling $ 650.00
March 2004: 3 donations totaling $ 10,030.00
April 2004: 7 donations totaling $ 2,789.50
May 2004: 13 donations totaling $ 580.00
June 2004: 4 donations totaling $ 105.00
July 2004: 3 donations totaling $ 75.00
August 2004: 3 donations totaling $ 100.00
September 2004: 9 donations totaling $ 3,965.00
October 2004: 17 donations totaling $ 1,275.00
November 2004: 5 donations totaling $ 202.77
December 2004: 3 donations totaling $ 175.00
January 2005: 5 donations totaling $ 1,453.00
February 2005: 4 donations totaling $ 275.00
March 2005: 7 donations totaling $ 460.00
April 2005: 2 donations totaling $ 50.00
May 2005: 3 donations totaling $ 150.00
June 2005: 5 donations totaling $ 200.00
July 2005: 6 donations totaling $ 145.00
August 2005: 3 donations totaling $ 150.00
September 2005: 100 donations totaling $ 3,926.51

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Grand Total: $ 47,358.78

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Why should charity and non-profit science suffer just because you and others don't want to donate money? That's very pretentious.

Prententious never. Why? 'Cos you just hit the nail on the head - perhaps some people cannot afford. As I say its about class systems. Thanks for your support for the argument.

Don't donate to charity because not everyone can afford to do so. Brilliant.

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Don't donate to charity because not everyone can afford to do so. Brilliant.

That's not what I said and you know it. I said boasting about your ability to do so when others cannot causes division. I specifically said donating is fine by me!!!!!!!!!

I'm sorry MattDavis but you seem to be missing all the points put to you irrespective of who puts them . Let's call it a day as I see no merit in continuing. There's nothing new being added to the arguments and we cannot agree - its boring for others I would guess. Good luck with your PhD. c u around m8.

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You might want to check out Dr Andersons patent claim for this project. Funded by your donations? Tested by everyone here forgain? Hard to answer I know but patents usually mean money for the owner. So will my share be bigger if I have a green star? KinHull found it and posted here.

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=19179

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Moot point. Distributed computing is not SETI@home. Two separate projects. If there's no funding for SETI@home then we'll pack up shop, but BOINC and distributed computing will still be around. These donations are all for SETI@home, not BOINC.

- Matt

You might want to check out Dr Andersons patent claim for this project. Funded by your donations? Tested by everyone here forgain? Hard to answer I know but patents usually mean money for the owner. So will my share be bigger if I have a green star? KinHull found it and posted here.

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=19179

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-- BOINC/SETI@home network/web/science/development person
-- "Any idiot can have a good idea. What is hard is to do it." - Jeanne-Claude

Hi Matt

this Green Star program seems to be working

I'm ... not sure .. but is it in the last ... 5 or is it 7 days ..

it has brought in ... just about ... $ 4000

bottom line .... it seems to work ... and bring in cash

Matt .... do you think ... SETI@home ... could please keep this ..... Green Star program in place ?

it will be interesting to see over next 3 to 6 months

how the cash .. comes in month by month

Donation History


- byron

You might want to check out Dr Andersons patent claim for this project. Funded by your donations? Tested by everyone here forgain? Hard to answer I know but patents usually mean money for the owner. So will my share be bigger if I have a green star? KinHull found it and posted here.

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=19179

As Matt points out, the donations are for SETI, not BOINC. BOINC has seperate funding and by necessity has to be kept apart from SETI.

Patents aren't always strictly for profit, nor are they always profitable.

Same with copyrights: you'll often find material that is copyrighted to protect and preserve it unchanged.

Sun's Java license was designed to prevent the language from splitting into a dozen different dialects -- and surely protected by copyright and/or patent so they'd have the legal tools to do so.

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Patents aren't always strictly for profit, nor are they always profitable.

Same with copyrights: you'll often find material that is copyrighted to protect and preserve it unchanged.

I don't have any patents, but I have literally hundreds of copyrights... not one of which is CURRENTLY earning me a penny, nor did the copyright itself ever do anything other than making sure nobody ELSE got money for my work...

Separate subject:

I am happy for those that donated to SETI@HOME, but don't you dare accuse me of being a dolt or uncaring because I chose to send my money to make sure 100's of thousands of PEOPLE are rescued and cared for...

I'm not going to defend ANYONE in this pathetic "debate", on either side, but I will point out that nobody has called you a dolt or uncaring. One person was called a dolt, in a sarcastic manner.

Now a general comment not directed at any one person:

If one person ACTUALLY thought less of someone else for not donating money to SETI, or more of them for doing so... so what???? Why does the opinion of someone you don't even know, on a topic you disagree about, matter in the least? The green stars have done what they were supposed to do - raise money. If some people take the presence or absence of a star as meaning "something else", well... f em.

What I am seeing here is that people are being offended, or thinking less of others, not for the presence or absence of a star, but for what those people are SAYING about the stars. If you don't want to argue about it, then shut up about it. Donate money or not, as dictated by your ability, preferences, political beliefs, religion, or phase of the moon. 99.9% of the people here don't care, and the other 0.1% don't matter.

My self serving profile star is bigger than yours!

But my self serving profile stars are prettier!


James :-)

I donated!

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Regarding US taxes and SETI@home:

I personally don't get any salary from BOINC grants, nor does it pay for tapes, SETI@home server maintenance/hardware, etc. That money only goes towards BOINC core client software development, and occasional tech support for all scientific endeavors using the BOINC engine.

- Matt

Sorry Matt, but you are probably wrong regarding your salary (as well as equipment funding). There are two kinds of funding in all NSF grants (and most other US Govt. grants...e.g., NIH grants, etc.): direct costs and indirect costs. While you may not be receiving funds from the direct costs of the grant (i.e., you don't have a 'line item' for your position in the grant), you almost certainly have some portion of your salary coming from the indirect costs. Indirect costs are funds from the grant that go to the university, non-profit org., etc. for overhead costs. These expenses include equipment, day-to-day supplies, salaries of some employees, etc. Thus, it is likely that your salary is supported by the BOINC grants and perhaps others from Dr. A's department (this is true for most programmer, office support, etc. positions in research institutes and true of almost all graduate assistants that are not supported by grant direct costs).

I donated!

Frankly, I'm both rather amused and appalled at the level of the discussion.

I think both "sides" have taken the discussion to levels that were never meant or worth discussing.

The "star" thing doesn't form classes to any greater extent than RAC or total credits.

And people can "donate" to the project in whatever way seems appropriate to them.

We are all "free" to express our views. However, sometimes people choose not to exercise that free right because it will cause division.

In some cases, this choice to speak can cause greater division that the class division that it's trying to speak against.

That's my 2 cents (or pence or whatever your local currency), and not directed at any one person or "side".

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Mark