Donation discussion

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Profile Kajunfisher
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Message 165121 - Posted: 9 Sep 2005, 15:19:03 UTC

There was a discussion a while back in a thread (I can no longer find) about donations and some ideas were tossed around. I remember someone mentioning the page that Classic had. I mentioned at the time that Janus had set up his "BURP" project to handle donations. Anyone who is crunching for BURP knows the pages I am talking about.

I was hoping that his site would be up at the time that I posted this, but you'll have to check it out as soon as it is. (Hopefully Janus can give a better explanation of how it's set up than I can now)

There is a page that shows what the contributions are going to: Hardware purchase(s)/upgrades, Bandwidth, Misc.

You can select where you want your contribution to go to specifically or have it go to Misc.

As far as the amount is concerned, it is shown in "Your Account" only, and it reflects all the specifics of your donation(s).

Under your avatar it is noted that you are a "Project Donor".

You can set it up to do repeat donations i.e. monthly, etc.

There is also a graphic displayed that shows "donation status" for each area/requirement.


As far as BOINC and donating is concerned (from the BOINC Homepage):

1."Donate computing power to science (by using BOINC)"...

2."BOINC lets you donate computing power to scientific research projects"...

3."An open-source software platform for computing using volunteered resources"...


"My" opinion: Purchasing a personal computer(s) or hardware to crunch more/faster is not the same as making a monetary contribution. Making a monetary contribution ensures that any project gets the resources it needs to complete it's objective. I see nothing wrong with a green star or "project donor" label.


No matter where you go, there you are...
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Profile Darth Dogbytes™
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Message 165122 - Posted: 9 Sep 2005, 15:21:45 UTC
Last modified: 9 Sep 2005, 15:22:02 UTC

That's why your credits and rac are indicated below your avatar.

Account frozen...
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Profile Kajunfisher
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Message 165180 - Posted: 9 Sep 2005, 17:34:27 UTC

Janus' BURP site is up so I can provide the link now.

BURP Donation Page

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Profile Tigher
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Message 165182 - Posted: 9 Sep 2005, 17:36:33 UTC

My post from Fuzzy's thread on donations.

Sorry but I think this stigmatisation of those that don't send cash is reprehensible. I have PCs that I bought just to do Seti and thats all they do. I pay the equivalent of $45 US in electricity every month to do the processing. I add reasonable help to the whole set up when people are in trouble. I add ideas through _dev. I have added to the resolution of bugs. I have produced optimised Boinc clients for Linux. But no little green star 'cos I didn't send cash. I find this unacceptable.

Anyhow all the spare cash I have has gone to relief funds with the British and American Red Cross organisations to help those victims of Katrina. I would encourage all of you to do the very same! So even I was minded to send UCB cash, which I am not, then they wouldn't get any this year as I reached my yearly charity spend already.

I think this green Star of !STIGMA should be reconsidered!

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Message 165189 - Posted: 9 Sep 2005, 17:49:38 UTC
Last modified: 9 Sep 2005, 17:50:56 UTC

I think it's very likely that certain individuals who donated and have a tendency to criticize individuals reporting problems will use this as yet another justification for doing so.

It'll be something like this:

User problem:
"I'm running seti version ... and boinc version ... and it's ..."

Response:
"Quit whining. I see from your profile that you haven't contributed. If you make a contribution maybe they'd be able to fix your problem. Since you haven't contributed you have no right to complain."
Nothing travels faster than the speed of light with the possible exception of bad news, which obeys its own special laws.
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Message 165197 - Posted: 9 Sep 2005, 18:02:41 UTC

A slightly edited version of my post in the sticky donations thread...

If I have correctly picked out azwoody's argument, he feels that some would take offense that non-CPU donations are recognized in a more visible manner than CPU donations. One might get the impression at first glance that the SETI project values monetary donations above CPU donations, since the monetary recognition is "flashier" (is that a word?).

Most organizations that solicit donations have levels of recognition. SETI@home even ranks its corporate sponsors in levels. I really doubt that eBay can claim to have invented the idea of combining stars and rankings.

My initial ideas for donation icons would be:

  • Radio Dish icons for credits
  • Coin icons for money
  • Gear icons for equipment (dedicated PCs as well as in-kind donations)
  • Hourglass icons for time since joining the project
  • Cartoon Text Balloon icons for forum and Q&A posts
  • Stars for a politically correct grand total formula


These totals can be updated in the participant account when they change, so that the database isn't pummelled with calculating things every time a thread is viewed. The "Gear" icons may have to rely on the honor system... a PC's designation as "dedicated" may rely entirely on participants.

Each icon would come in a range of colors (bronze, silver, gold, platinum, diamond seems to be a popular sequence).

Just some thoughts.


No animals were harmed in the making of the above post... much.
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Profile MattDavis
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Message 165222 - Posted: 9 Sep 2005, 19:09:43 UTC

If people are scared that I'm going to use my little green star as an excuse to put people down, you're being paranoid. I was doing that long before I got the star.
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Message 165229 - Posted: 9 Sep 2005, 19:33:58 UTC - in response to Message 165222.  

If people are scared that I'm going to use my little green star as an excuse to put people down, you're being paranoid. I was doing that long before I got the star.


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For SetiBoinc status graphs visit Teamseti status graphs
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Profile MattDavis
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Message 165233 - Posted: 9 Sep 2005, 19:45:58 UTC

It's pitiful. Some people on this board are so damn paranoid.

Oh no I'm not getting enough work units!

Oh no my magical credit number isn't increasing!

Oh no people who are nice and donated money may be mean to me!

People take this project too seriously. I love Seti too, but it doesn't keep me up at night like some of you clowns.
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Message 165234 - Posted: 9 Sep 2005, 19:46:48 UTC
Last modified: 9 Sep 2005, 19:56:50 UTC

The computers we are using for crunching do not belong to any individual, they are inventory from a company.

I'm not ashamed to say that I have not made a significant financial contribution in order to participate in this project.
As is stated in our profile we chose S@H to conduct some ongoing reliability testing for the grid because Sun is a major sponsor of the project and the goals of the project are, scientifically and socially, very interesting; we'd much rather have the machines contributing results to a worthwhile project like S@H rather than running endless, useless test diagnostics and discarding the results.

We aren't looking for stars, flashing lights, sirens or neon signs - we crunch, we return results, we get some more.
If S@H is down we turn the grid off and come back later.

Obviously there are many people on here who have made a huge contribution to S@H over the years and years they have been involved (whether it be money, time, rebuilding/upgrading machines, electricity bill, posting advice and information these forums or just plain and simple WU crunching).
I'm not saying that contribution shouldn't be recognised, but be aware that there are some members who don't like to get caught up in these discussions. They aren't in competition with other participants and are doing it either out of curiousity or for the science - they also don't want the stigma of being labelled as a non-contributor because stars don't start appearing next to their names.


On a side note ... I worked out today that if this project was a paying customer on SunGrid the 'cost' (SunGrid charges $1 per CPU per Hour) of performing the crunching we've contributed so far would be (APPROX): (256 CPUs x (6 days x 24 hours)) + (64 CPUs x (4 days x 24 hours)) + (128 CPUs x (1 day x 12 hours)) = $44,526.
Of course anyone would be hard pressed to justify that as a 'financial contribution' ...


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Profile Tigher
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Message 165238 - Posted: 9 Sep 2005, 19:56:06 UTC
Last modified: 9 Sep 2005, 19:57:22 UTC

Well I don't think anyone wants to be having this discussion. Why ahs it come about? Answer=Someone started giving out stars because they were milk monitors at school or something. Whatever culture you come from you get stars for doing goodie goodie things. Well not having a star must be a stigma. It makes one second class irrespective of what your contribution might have been. That's infair and unacceptable top most people I would say. I tell you I don't want a star; I jst don't want to be one of those that hasn't got one! Hell I do and have done my bit. I think this is outrageous!

EDIT : There I changed my name!

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Profile Tigher
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Message 165246 - Posted: 9 Sep 2005, 20:05:35 UTC

Well whatever. Is still say send your money to Katrina victims not UCB!

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Profile MattDavis
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Message 165250 - Posted: 9 Sep 2005, 20:12:21 UTC

It's a sad day when people are getting mad when a guy donates $25 to Seti@home.
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Profile Qui-Gon
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Message 165260 - Posted: 9 Sep 2005, 20:21:12 UTC

Please don't forget: there will be some people who contribute anonymously, thus there will be no star next to their name (and many who contribute money will never post on these boards). So, if someone wants a star, that's fine, but no one should dismiss a participant who doesn't have one. Participation, at whatever level is comfortable, in whatever currency you choose (crunching, advice, money, etc.) is what counts.
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Profile MattDavis
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Message 165261 - Posted: 9 Sep 2005, 20:27:34 UTC
Last modified: 9 Sep 2005, 20:27:54 UTC

Nobody is dismissing anybody.

People in this thread see other people with stars and assume they're going to turn into some elite aristocratic class who thinks they're better than those without stars. That's an unfounded idea, and those people are paranoid.

I don't have to defend to anyone my small donation or my star, and if you think I'm going to lord it over you then you need to go outside and get some sun.
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Profile Kajunfisher
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Message 165271 - Posted: 9 Sep 2005, 20:37:07 UTC
Last modified: 9 Sep 2005, 20:47:00 UTC

@Matt, I gave you a +1 for this post. Thanks for the smile :-)

@SunGrid, Thanks for your honesty about your contribution concerning your computers. I haven't made a cash donation myself, yet. I will when I have the money. In the mean time the BOINC projects get my cpu cycles.

@Tigher, They are simply recognizing someone for their contribution, not stating that they are in a higher class than you or I. Like Tom says, you can contribute anonymously, and as you did before. (How about TigherPlatinum?) ;-)
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Message 165276 - Posted: 9 Sep 2005, 20:43:31 UTC - in response to Message 165261.  

Nobody is dismissing anybody.

People in this thread see other people with stars and assume they're going to turn into some elite aristocratic class who thinks they're better than those without stars. That's an unfounded idea, and those people are paranoid.

I don't have to defend to anyone my small donation or my star, and if you think I'm going to lord it over you then you need to go outside and get some sun.


I wasn't accusing you of dismissing anyone, but I sense a concern in this thread that that will be done by some. To be fair, I should have said that no one should treat any participant, with or without a star, differently because of their star or lack of one.
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Message 165279 - Posted: 9 Sep 2005, 20:48:29 UTC

I see in the last few minutes that anyone who has disagreed with Tigher has gotten a minus.
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Message 165282 - Posted: 9 Sep 2005, 20:53:59 UTC

I'm not looking to start a + / - session. I just think this creates two classes of citizen. In a world where we have worked hard to dismantle that crap I have to say it wrankles with me quite badly. Sorry but that's my view; I don't mean to start or fuel a war on this.

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Message 165284 - Posted: 9 Sep 2005, 20:57:02 UTC - in response to Message 165282.  
Last modified: 9 Sep 2005, 20:57:25 UTC

I'm not looking to start a + / - session. I just think this creates two classes of citizen. In a world where we have worked hard to dismantle that crap I have to say it wrankles with me quite badly. Sorry but that's my view; I don't mean to start or fuel a war on this.


I am a graduate student. You don't make a lot of money earning a PhD. My $25 represents a lot of food money. However, YOU'RE stigmatizing ME for donating some of my hard-earned money to a non-profit scientific project. Are you even thinking this through? You're getting mad for some of us donating money to science!

I agree, I am seeing 2 classes. A class of selfless individuals who donate money, and a class of people who are attacking them.
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