Well there is a clear trade off going on. As of 7PM PST:

Waiting for validation 606,412

And of course we have another outage (advertised as 3 hours, I'd guess closer to 5 hours) for tomorrow.

That waiting for validation number has been climbing pretty steadily for the past few days.

This is as of 12:20pm PST posted in the server status.

Ready to send 4
In progress 953,864
Waiting for validation 522,886
Transitioner backlog 5 hours

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This is as of 12:20pm PST posted in the server status.

Ready to send 4
In progress 953,864
Waiting for validation 522,886
Transitioner backlog 5 hours

Hopefully things start to try and catch up.

Jeremy

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Well there are folks who define 'nominal' as a variable so that things are always nominal. Sort of like defining a project as 'complete' based on date. Or sort of like pronouncing mission accomplished for some....

Looking at this mornings status, maybe I got it wrong: nominal is 500K waiting to validate and 0 waiting to send?!

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Looking at this mornings status, maybe I got it wrong: nominal is 500K waiting to validate and 0 waiting to send?!

I made a mistake. I disconnected one of my clients to reduce the load on the servers, the altruist that I am. I had planned on reconnecting when the dust settled, but my work queue is rapidly approaching zero and it looks like I won't get any wu's to replace the ones I send up. Oh well, I guess there are bigger problems in the universe. At least my wife doesn't cheat on me.

Cheers.

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May this Farce be with You

By the way, it's now 500K waiting for validation -- strikes me that this is a change going in the 'recovery timeframe is later rather than sooner' direction.

Again, folks will choose to have different definitions of 'recovered' -- that is fine. For me, 500K waiting for validation is not 'recovered'.

Some see the glass as half-empty.

Others see it as half-full.

... and some scream "who drank my water!"

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By the way, it's now 500K waiting for validation -- strikes me that this is a change going in the 'recovery timeframe is later rather than sooner' direction.

Again, folks will choose to have different definitions of 'recovered' -- that is fine. For me, 500K waiting for validation is not 'recovered'.

I've been asking this for weeks (probably forever). what is Up?

I'd say, if you look at this with an engineer's perspective, lets agree to the targets and stop making excuses. Command central seem to imply that 500K ready to send and 0 validation are nominal (target) values. We aren't 'up' until we are nominal. How close to nominal?? Well, lets argue about it. But 400K waiting for validation probably ain't close.

Now everybody duck; Ageless is out to get me and will blather emotionally until he/she is satisfied.

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I've been asking this for weeks (probably forever). what is Up?

I'd say, if you look at this with an engineer's perspective, lets agree to the targets and stop making excuses. Command central seem to imply that 500K ready to send and 0 validation are nominal (target) values. We aren't 'up' until we are nominal. How close to nominal?? Well, lets argue about it. But 400K waiting for validation probably ain't close.

The phone company generally defines a switch (central office equipment used to connect subscribers to other subscribers) as "up" if it can route, or is routing, a single phone call.

While I think that might be a bit generous, I think "processing user requests" is a pretty good measure for SETI.

... particularly if the validators and transitioners are able to process completed work a little faster than it arrives, and the splitters keep ahead of the call for new work..

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I was born with fewer grey cells than most. What does this mean, Galifrean?

Being born with fewer gray cells, or the word Galifrean?

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I demand a refund. Oh wait, I didn't pay to join,
I VOLUNTEERED!

I was born with fewer grey cells than most. What does this mean, Galifrean?

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May this Farce be with You

I've been asking this for weeks (probably forever). what is Up?

I'd say, if you look at this with an engineer's perspective, lets agree to the targets and stop making excuses. Command central seem to imply that 500K ready to send and 0 validation are nominal (target) values. We aren't 'up' until we are nominal. How close to nominal?? Well, lets argue about it. But 400K waiting for validation probably ain't close.

Now everybody duck; Ageless is out to get me and will blather emotionally until he/she is satisfied.

The next one's for you PhonAcq

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I demand a refund. Oh wait, I didn't pay to join,
I VOLUNTEERED!

I've been asking this for weeks (probably forever). what is Up?

I'd say, if you look at this with an engineer's perspective, lets agree to the targets and stop making excuses. Command central seem to imply that 500K ready to send and 0 validation are nominal (target) values. We aren't 'up' until we are nominal. How close to nominal?? Well, lets argue about it. But 400K waiting for validation probably ain't close.

Now everybody duck; Ageless is out to get me and will blather emotionally until he/she is satisfied.

---

May this Farce be with You

I guess I cringe when people become so proud of the number of wu's returned, justifying the excitement in terms of doing science. In fact, it is ego with the credits producing the ego trip for the most part, or something psychologically realted; but it is not doing science. Sorry, I'm a realist.

I'm a realist too.

I know that I have to upload and report my work before it can be validated and credit granted -- so I see uploads and scheduler reports as a step toward validation and transition.

I also know that BOINC credit is worth less than Canadian Tire Money. But I still like getting credit, even if I'm not excited enough to fire up more machines.

As you point out, the work doesn't mean anything until it is evaluated by the project scientists -- and no news from the scientists may in fact mean "no news."

When I looked earlier, the transitioner backlog was 17 hours. It's now 12 hours, so that's positive. Four splitters are running, and it looks like they're barely keeping up with demand. The assimilators are down, presumably to make more resources for validating and transitioning.

So, it looks to me like lots of science is being done, collected and going into the database, even if the systems aren't all caught up.

Which brings us back to the metric question: how do we measure "up" -- is the project "up" when everything is 100% caught up, or is there some room for slack in the processes?

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An interesting question -- I've got over 850 results with pending status at the moment in my collection.

I must admit that I'm getting nervous and am just waiting for all the pending credits to be wiped clean.......can you imagine the furore that would cause!

So what do you think the odds are that we will loose our pending credits?

Live long and crunch.

Personally, the only credit I would hate to lose is the "Found ET" one.

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I demand a refund. Oh wait, I didn't pay to join,
I VOLUNTEERED!

An interesting question -- I've got over 850 results with pending status at the moment in my collection.

I must admit that I'm getting nervous and am just waiting for all the pending credits to be wiped clean.......can you imagine the furore that would cause!

So what do you think the odds are that we will loose our pending credits?

Live long and crunch.

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I must admit that I'm getting nervous and am just waiting for all the pending credits to be wiped clean.......can you imagine the furore that would cause!

So what do you think the odds are that we will loose our pending credits?

Live long and crunch.

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Paul
(S@H1 8888)
And proud of it!

@Jim Baize

I guess I cringe when people become so proud of the number of wu's returned, justifying the excitement in terms of doing science. In fact, it is ego with the credits producing the ego trip for the most part, or something psychologically realted; but it is not doing science. Sorry, I'm a realist.

As far as I can see there has been no scientific output from UCB (lots of input) for a very long time. Scientific output would be measured in terms of some theory being zeroed in on, or disproved, or new ideas being created that can be tested. Sorry, a few terrabytes of wu's doesn't hack it; not until somebody reviews and concludes and projects... You know, applies the scientific method. I wonder what the reviewers for the NSF would say about the astronomy (or whatever) part of this project.

In the smaller scope, I think that it is ok to be proud to see the wu's uploaded and download. It is required for the end result, but certainly not the end result. At the next level, we are part of the seti compute engine. So I would hope that was working as well. That (the servers at UCB) seems to be a work in progress. So, we should, as a scientific community, be spending time looking for problems and debating them, so that we may help seti continously improve and 'get there faster'!

Cheers.

When did this become about the wu's?????????????????????????



Those brave chaps at seti berkeley>>

@Jim Baize

I guess I cringe when people become so proud of the number of wu's returned, justifying the excitement in terms of doing science. In fact, it is ego with the credits producing the ego trip for the most part, or something psychologically realted; but it is not doing science. Sorry, I'm a realist.

As far as I can see there has been no scientific output from UCB (lots of input) for a very long time. Scientific output would be measured in terms of some theory being zeroed in on, or disproved, or new ideas being created that can be tested. Sorry, a few terrabytes of wu's doesn't hack it; not until somebody reviews and concludes and projects... You know, applies the scientific method. I wonder what the reviewers for the NSF would say about the astronomy (or whatever) part of this project.

In the smaller scope, I think that it is ok to be proud to see the wu's uploaded and download. It is required for the end result, but certainly not the end result. At the next level, we are part of the seti compute engine. So I would hope that was working as well. That (the servers at UCB) seems to be a work in progress. So, we should, as a scientific community, be spending time looking for problems and debating them, so that we may help seti continously improve and 'get there faster'!

Cheers.

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May this Farce be with You

All uploads done and new work received. All done without "forcing" any of it. With such an extended outage, I think things are going great. Well done Berkeley. It seems as though your tweaks are on the right course. Of course this is only my "opinion" as always...

And as always........have a nice day...!!!.

seti is a process. The way I am intepreting what you are saying is that it is an all or nothing. yes, I understand what you mean about the science not being completed until the results are validated and inserted into the master database. But, if you wanna look at it like that, there is still very little science done at that point. The data we turn in has to be analysed and evaluated. But then... how much science has been done? Once they have that data then they have to go reobserve the sky. Has science been done yet? I guess it all depends upon how one defines the system.

Then again, one could look at it as a continuum. Each little step contributing something to the science. by itself it is nothing, but added into the whole they are one. They are assimilated. LOL

Another way to look at this system is the development of BOINC as a science. If one was to look at the evolution of the software then there has been a lot of science done. there is still plenty more research left to be accomplished, and still lots more problems to be encountered and overcome. but, science, in this respect is being done.

I guess it is all relative to ones perspective.

The way I look at it, if someone pulled the plug at this very instant, we would have no more science completed than we did about a week ago, because the validation/assimilation pipeline is choked. It's that simple. 'We' are doing nothing but pushing electrons until (at least) the database is up to date.

The good news is that the WFV queue is slowly reducing, even with all those processes turned off. So we are on the right track.

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