Away with the Pompoms, let's burn them!
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Away with the Pompoms, let's burn them!
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 Siran d'Vel'nahr  Send message Joined: 23 May 99 Posts: 7346 Credit: 44,181,323 RAC: 540 
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Well said, Siran. Thanks David.... I just thought I'd throw it out there to see what comes out of it.... Thanks again.... >:-) (-:< CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr XO - L L & P _\\// USS Vre'kasht NCC-33187 Winders 10 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker "Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath ID: 148279 ·  |
Divide Overflow  Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 365 Credit: 131,684 RAC: 0
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Well said, Siran. ID: 148278 · |
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Siran d'Vel'nahr Send message Joined: 23 May 99 Posts: 7346 Credit: 44,181,323 RAC: 540
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Just my 2¢ to a nickle's worth: I, for one, am also tired of the negativity on these boards. People have seen me become sarcastic. Yes, I admit, I have become sarcastic....! We are ALL here on a volunteer basis. Over 6 years ago, Berkeley did NOT come to my house and order me to crunch their WUs for SETI. I discovered the project in an article in the local newspaper. I signed on because ET is an interest of mine, and helping to find them was something I decided I wanted to do. A little over a year ago, I discovered that Berkeley had come out with this new platform called BOINC. Hmmmm.... .o0(Sounds interesting....) I thought. I checked it out and decided I wanted to go with the flow of Berkeley. Still, on a volunteer basis.... BOINC has evolved over the past year. The science client has evolved over the past year. I have kept up with the upgrades/updates over the past year, voluntarily.... Now for the rant on the negativity: I have seen people whine every single time there was an upgrade/update for BOINC. I see people whine because there is an outage now and then. I see people whine because they can't up/download WUs. I see people whine about their credit not being updated. I see people WHINE, WHINE, WHINE.... My opinion of these consistant whiners is this: Take it somewhere else! If you're not happy going with the flow of Berkeley, SETI@Home, BOINC, etc., then why are you here in the first place? To whine? We don't need it! Pompoms and Cheerleading: I used to do my share of cheerleading, but no longer. I haven't for quite some time now. Why? Because of the negativity. Because of the constant whining about this or that. Because NO ONE listens to the cheerleading and just goes with the flow. I have become sarcastic! I say burn the pompoms and knock off with the negativity. You whine, you get a sarcastic reply.... I don't want to be sarcastic: It used to be fun out here, there is still some to some extent. But, the negativity has overshaddowed the fun. They had instituted a post rating system on these boards. The negative ones have taken it upon themselves to abuse the system. Evidence of that can be found on this board over the past 2 weeks. I came to the point where I almost "threw in the towel" and detached from the project, from ALL projects. But I didn't. Do you know why? Because I'm not a loser, I'm not a quiter and I'm not NEGATIVE. I don't want to be sarcastic, but the negative whining brings out the sarcasm. In closing: Let us all burn the pompoms, stop cheerleading and rid the boards of all this negativity. Let's bring back the fun again. Let's look for ET.... Ok, that was probably more like a $1.00s worth.... >:-) (-:< CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr XO - L L & P _\\// USS Vre'kasht NCC-33187 Winders 10 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker "Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath ID: 148276 · |
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Tigher Send message Joined: 18 Mar 04 Posts: 1547 Credit: 760,577 RAC: 0 
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Nobody joined this because they wanted it to fail. So, we all want success. Some get frustrated more quickly than others about how its going and demand not unrerasonable performance. Those who joined on day one are very wedded to it and protective of it and this is understandable. Those who join of late are being told they must do so and are expecting to walk into a working project....just like the one they left. Again not unreasonable. Even those that moan do so because they want it to work.....yes they do or they would not be here....what would be the point of joining somthing to see it fail? Some help with issues, some make suggestions to the devs, some are silent and just take it, some moan and some enter into the now infamous constructive critcism. Whatever they do....its still a statement about wanting it to work....I'm sure of that. No one means to lambast the devs who do, overall, a good job. Yes money is tight and its hard. Equally they are a uni that is research oriented and are not, historically, an ops dept for high availability systems. Many of us are or have been that and this is where some frustration creeps in. There is no real direct means of engagement with the devs and I have said before this is a shame. It does leave you with a feeling sometimes that they just want our cpus and they will decide what they do with our resoucres. I'm sure its not like that really but without positive engagement aimed at taking on board other peoples views then feelings will run high from time to time. I have taken both stances in my short time here.....I have praised and criticised hopefully constructively....I will continue to do so. I will always help where I can and where people struggle. I am not a cheer leader 'cos I was not involved in the wedding ceremony and it is unlikely I will go partisan as I don't tend to do that.....far too old for that. I will stay the course but I would like to be heard a little more by those who take the decisions. There is a wealth of knowledge, experience and new ideas on these forums and that needs to be captured and exploited for the good of the project. No I am not cheerleading now.......I am just looking at all you guys and gals who often post ideas...many good, some so so and a few not so good (my opinion). I would like to see a forum that creates the opportunity for those with ideas to have healthy and meaningfull exchanges that lead to positive outputs from which the project would benefit. We all need to make that happen.....and persuade the devs to listen.....and they will if its a quality discourse followed by well presented and thought through material. So there's the challenge. I hope this helps show we all have the same agenda.....success. Equally I hope it helps show everyone has an absolute right to an opinion and a right not to be poo pooed, shouted at or shot down......cos we really are here for the same purpose...same team...same objective. Thanks for listening ....sorry its so long. Regards  ID: 148270 · |
mikey  Send message Joined: 17 Dec 99 Posts: 4215 Credit: 3,474,603 RAC: 0
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The main Cheerleaders are the same ones that have been here since the public launch a year ago. In their eyes, UCB and do no wrong, and anyone who says otherwise, is a whiner! I AM a cheerleader and will always be one, sorry just the way things are. BUT to expand on your idea a little...I think the problem is that we users do not have enough info to try and discuss things that Berkeley should or should not be doing since Berkeley does not see fit to include themselves in the "discussions" of "contructive criticism". IF Berkeley were to offer their reasons and thinking behind some of the "issues" some people have then a discussion could be had, and would probably be very welcome, as long as it was kept at that level. BUT until Berkeley includes themselves it rapidly becomes a "I want this and he wants that" type of "discussion" and as people try and present other points of view, the "discussion" degrades into Berkeley bashing. Which is probably WHY Berkeley does NOT include themselves in the "discussions". I mean Berkeley designed and built a system that works. It may not work the way that you and I would like it too, it may not even be designed the way we would have done it, BUT they did it and when we get into Berkeley bashing the "discussion" becomes pointless. 
ID: 148244 · |
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Jim Baize Send message Joined: 6 May 00 Posts: 758 Credit: 149,536 RAC: 0
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that's fine. I am the bigger man. I will continually strive to make sure my posts are positive and objective. Oh - i play that ball back to you... ;) ID: 148191 · |
Jord  Send message Joined: 9 Jun 99 Posts: 15157 Credit: 4,362,181 RAC: 6 
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I am still wondering if "constructive criticism" isn't an oxymoron, But what I am trying to do is exactly that Jim: "trying to make things more amiable on the forums". We have all these fights, all these negative ratings, all these words. Just put eachother and keep eachother on ignore. :) ID: 148188 · |
Ulrich Metzner  Send message Joined: 3 Jul 02 Posts: 1253 Credit: 13,565,513 RAC: 31 
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always have to try to blame someone... rather than taking a "constructive criticism" and trying to make things more amiable on the forums. Oh - i play that ball back to you... ;) Aloha, Uli ID: 148187 · |
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Jim Baize Send message Joined: 6 May 00 Posts: 758 Credit: 149,536 RAC: 0
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always have to try to blame someone... rather than taking a "constructive criticism" and trying to make things more amiable on the forums. ...too many times "constructive criticisms" are riddled with derogatory remarks. ID: 148182 · |
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1mp0£173 Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 8423 Credit: 356,897 RAC: 0
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...too many times "constructive criticisms" are riddled with derogatory remarks. I'd just be happy if we could discuss the issues without an ad-hominum attack. It'd be good if someone could say something nice without instantly being labelled. ID: 148180 · |
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Ulrich Metzner Send message Joined: 3 Jul 02 Posts: 1253 Credit: 13,565,513 RAC: 31
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...too many times "constructive criticisms" are riddled with derogatory remarks. Maybe because the 'cheerleaders' like to read / understand / get it that way? Aloha, Uli ID: 148176 · |
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Jim Baize Send message Joined: 6 May 00 Posts: 758 Credit: 149,536 RAC: 0
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because most of the time the criticisms are not constructive. too many times "constructive criticisms" are riddled with derogatory remarks. Never had pompoms, never ever needed them for anything, but i would gladly help anyone to burn them... >:) ID: 148168 · |
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EclipseHA Send message Joined: 28 Jul 99 Posts: 1018 Credit: 530,719 RAC: 0
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And why should anyone who makes a positive (CONSTRUCTIVE) comment be automatically branded as a "cheerleader"? Exactly! The main Cheerleaders are the same ones that have been here since the public launch a year ago. In their eyes, UCB and do no wrong, and anyone who says otherwise, is a whiner! ID: 148157 · |
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Ulrich Metzner Send message Joined: 3 Jul 02 Posts: 1253 Credit: 13,565,513 RAC: 31
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And why should anyone who makes a positive (CONSTRUCTIVE) comment be automatically branded as a "cheerleader"? I think, you got me wrong at this point. Constructive criticism is nearly always misunderstood / branded as 'whining' by the cheerleaders and absolutely not understood as 'cheerleading' - and definitely not meant as that by me ;) I think constructive criticism (as you say) must be the middle ground. Exactly my point of view. But i don't get a single foot on the ground, when i try to accomplish my vision of things, because the cheerleaders flock together and beat me (or anyone else) down in no time, faster than i could refine my statement on something... so... :/ Aloha, Uli ID: 148152 · |
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Jord Send message Joined: 9 Jun 99 Posts: 15157 Credit: 4,362,181 RAC: 6
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There's the thing, Dec. They aren't. The Cheerleaders are those that are for the project no matter what. 12 days of no units, validators etc.? We will tell you to try another project... Only to be told we are cheerleaders. I once asked azwoody, who branded me, if there was a difference between being a Boinc cheerleader and a Seti cheerleader. I can't remember if I ever got a clear answer. Yet by saying to people that boinc and seti are not the same, one gets branded a cheerleader already. Hence the pompomps. Where's the grill? ID: 148150 · |
DecBassI  Send message Joined: 21 May 05 Posts: 152 Credit: 86,905 RAC: 0
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Never had pompoms, never ever needed them for anything, but i would gladly help anyone to burn them... >:) So is the definition of cheerleader basically a blind optimist? There must be a middle ground here somewhere between "blind optimist" and "nay-sayer". I think constructive criticism (as you say) must be the middle ground. And why should anyone who makes a positive (CONSTRUCTIVE) comment be automatically branded as a "cheerleader"? ID: 148144 · |
Fuzzy Hollynoodles  Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 9659 Credit: 251,998 RAC: 0 |
This was in reply to Jim's post here, yet I thought it would be good on its own.  to you! :-)"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me 
ID: 148142 · |
Drew  Send message Joined: 31 May 04 Posts: 67 Credit: 95,871 RAC: 0
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well I have never had pom-poms, yet i dont mind cheering the small contribution I (we) try to make. I believe and hope the small contribution made in this project will better things to come in the future. But I wont burn any pom-poms....There's enough smoke in the air already!  ID: 148139 · |
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Ulrich Metzner Send message Joined: 3 Jul 02 Posts: 1253 Credit: 13,565,513 RAC: 31
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Never had pompoms, never ever needed them for anything, but i would gladly help anyone to burn them... >:) Cheerleading doesn't really help at all, constructive criticism is always a good push in the right direction but nearly always ostracized in this board by the (so called) cheerleaders... Aloha, Uli ID: 148134 · |
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DecBassI Send message Joined: 21 May 05 Posts: 152 Credit: 86,905 RAC: 0
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The need for POm-Poms only comes out when things are not going quite right and we need to defend ourselves against the nay-sayers. no, my point is its not a stigma to be positive! I wish more people were positive on these boards! The nay-sayers are the people who complain as soon as there is a problem, and are too impatient to wait until it sorts itself. Please dont burn your pompoms... the negativity on here can get very depressing. ID: 148129 · |
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