no work from project AGAIN!!!

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Message 11279 - Posted: 22 Jul 2004, 12:47:50 UTC
Last modified: 22 Jul 2004, 12:48:14 UTC

Reinstalled BOINC, but SETI classic is ahead by 10 minutes already.

Hard to say if they are actually going to work together this time
==========

I do that all the time with no problems, of course I have HT CPU's where each side of the CPU will work on each Project, BOINC & Seti Classic ...
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Message 11284 - Posted: 22 Jul 2004, 12:57:07 UTC

Given the success rate so far in finding ET and the limitations of SETI classic we need to face facts. BOINC will give us a better chance of finding life out there and the other projects will all in time prove useful. Many people are griping because they cannot download a WU, why because they want to crunch units, many are not interested in the science it is a testosterone kick. If you do not believe me check the number of woman posting complaints.

Sometime science is slow, that is the nature of the beast, it took roughly years for Chadwick to find the neutron after they thought it existed.

Get some patience and a life and stop the constant whinging. As many people have said if you don't like it they sign off and go away.

Julian Rouse


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Profile Christopher Hauber
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Message 11289 - Posted: 22 Jul 2004, 13:14:42 UTC - in response to Message 11268.  

If you are having problems with the installations interfering with eachother, use the command line version of SETI Classic. I've found the command line to be faster anyway.

Chris

> Reinstalled BOINC, but SETI classic is ahead by 10 minutes already.
>
> Hard to say if they are actually going to work together this time, but I'll be
> back home before classic finishes it's current WU.....and if BOINC actually
> get's a WU then I'll be slightly impressed.
>
>
>
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Message 11377 - Posted: 22 Jul 2004, 16:02:40 UTC

I write very few posts, but I thougt that some things really needed to be said/cleared up...(sorry for the lengthy post)

"a multi-project attitude..."

Here I think some are missing the point. Boinc does not force one to join any other project. One can run only SETI or only Predictor@home or both. It is just a platform that allows multiple projects to be run more efficiently by the end user. Those who complain about running BOINC vs. SETI classic are completely wrong. If you run SETI@home 3.08 on BOINC, then you are running the SAME THING as classic. Those who continue to advocate using multiple projects to persons who have clearly stated that they are only interested in the SETI projet are making an irrelevant point.



The Berkeley staff have been "taken by surprise", etc...

First let me say that I have great respect for the work and effort of the project staff. They are to be commended for their efforts and my further comment is not a complaint about their skills or devotion or fairness, etc. However, it seems to me that many of the problems that are being discussed are a result of the incomplete science that is SETI@home. I have no questions regarding the physics/astronomy side of the science, nor any real complaints about the computer science involved. What seems to be missing, however, is the social science. The staff are continually surprised (e.g., that so many found the autoupdate feature troublesome, that so many swamped the initial release of BOINC, etc.) because they have failed to recognize that any distributed computing project has 3 components--the project science (the SETI physics/astronomy), the computer science (the technical issues regarding the distributed computer software), and the social science (the reasons people participate, why people quit, why people do not participate, etc.). Perhaps the Berkeley SETI staff should contact the social scientists at their own institution who have already shown interest in astronomy related science (at least one of the demography faculty has a published paper on simulation data in astronomy). The 'web survey' on the SETI classic page which has been referred to in public discussions by the SETI@home project leaders is a joke by social science standards and is entirely inadequate as a substitute for professional assistance in this area.


SETI@home is a "Free project" and an "international project"...

SETI@home (classic and BOINC) are provided at no direct cost to the end user. However, this project is not free for all end users. The project is funded by donations from private companies and from grant money from the National Science Foundation (NSF). The NSF is an arm of the United States government with funds allocated via congress from tax revenues. Thus, though in an extremely small way, U.S. users who pay taxes are actually paying for this project. While the user base is a very diverse group of international participants (a fact that I find to be a very positive aspect of the project), the primary funding mechanisms are U.S. (Of course, I am excluding the possibly large monetary contributions of individual international donors. I am, however, also exluding the additional tax dollars paid by California resident participants that provide funds to U.Cal. Berkeley which indirectly support the project).


Scott
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Message 11395 - Posted: 22 Jul 2004, 16:40:04 UTC
Last modified: 22 Jul 2004, 16:59:32 UTC

4 hours later.....SETI classic is 93% completed with current WU

BOINC STILL waiting on a WU.

Explain to me again how BOINC is a "better" solution

LAF

EDIT: Second WU of the day downloaded by SETI classic before lunch break ended. BOINC still waiting on first WU f the day
LOL

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Message 11406 - Posted: 22 Jul 2004, 16:57:53 UTC
Last modified: 22 Jul 2004, 16:58:28 UTC

BrainSmasher is the epitome of the goon who is more interested in credits than results or science. He chides us for not doing as much on Boinc to find aliens as he is on Classic. Well, Smasher, if you paused to think, Boinc will be entering new grounds with new calculations.

Your Classic client recrunching the same old units over and over isn't going to find "ET".
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Message 11410 - Posted: 22 Jul 2004, 17:02:40 UTC
Last modified: 22 Jul 2004, 17:04:28 UTC

Yeah, my whopping 49 credit give you the idea that I'm interested in only stats? LOL

And my SETI classic is about to do TWICE the work of BOINC, maybe up to 6 times more work before the end of a 24 hour period before this piece of crap even gets one WU.

If I only redo a WU 3 or 4 times, then classic IS STILL stomping the crap out of BOINC.......and if you think that's no help at all......then what was the purpose of SETI classic in the first place?

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Message 11411 - Posted: 22 Jul 2004, 17:02:47 UTC

I think I've finally figured out the true raison d'etre for the S@H project ...

They want to find someone in the universe who can help them get this thing running properly :-)
Space Geeks, Inc.
http://www.flyingllama.com/sgi
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Message 11413 - Posted: 22 Jul 2004, 17:15:48 UTC - in response to Message 11410.  

> Yeah, my whopping 49 credit give you the idea that I'm interested in only
> stats? LOL
>
> And my SETI classic is about to do TWICE the work of BOINC, maybe up to 6
> times more work before the end of a 24 hour period before this piece of crap
> even gets one WU.
>
> If I only redo a WU 3 or 4 times, then classic IS STILL stomping the crap out
> of BOINC.......and if you think that's no help at all......then what was the
> purpose of SETI classic in the first place?
>
> </img>
>

You're not listening. Classic is crunching the same units over and over. That doesn't help to find anything new. Boinc is studying new ground and will only expand into more.
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Message 11421 - Posted: 22 Jul 2004, 17:27:51 UTC

I am getting fed up with waiting for a WU, it has been nearly 4 days since My machine did any crunching. I will NOT wait much longer before going back to TSC.

Get it working.
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Message 11422 - Posted: 22 Jul 2004, 17:27:52 UTC

I have just finished doing SETI classic given up on getting 500, to addicted to BOINC to try and get as high as i can, have they changed the server because i have been unable to get work for 2 days :). You will probably say 'No work' but they might have changed the data server. the server mine asks for is http://setiboincdata.ssl.berkeley.edu/sah_cgi/cgi is this correct?
Thanks


^ Click Here ^ ^ Click Here ^ ^ Click Here ^
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Message 11423 - Posted: 22 Jul 2004, 17:29:22 UTC - in response to Message 11421.  

> I am getting fed up with waiting for a WU, it has been nearly 4 days since My
> machine did any crunching. I will NOT wait much longer before going back to
> TSC.
>
> Get it working.


Grow up.
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Message 11424 - Posted: 22 Jul 2004, 17:30:16 UTC - in response to Message 11422.  

> I have just finished doing SETI classic given up on getting 500, to addicted
> to BOINC to try and get as high as i can, have they changed the server because
> i have been unable to get work for 2 days :). You will probably say 'No work'
> but they might have changed the data server. the server mine asks for is
> http://setiboincdata.ssl.berkeley.edu/sah_cgi/cgi is this correct?
> Thanks



I got that too as the server, and haven't gotten any work. It says that no scheduler responds. I just figured it was down for some reason.
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Message 11425 - Posted: 22 Jul 2004, 17:32:37 UTC

k thanks :)

^ Click Here ^ ^ Click Here ^ ^ Click Here ^
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Message 11458 - Posted: 22 Jul 2004, 18:49:34 UTC - in response to Message 11423.  

> > I am getting fed up with waiting for a WU, it has been nearly 4 days
> since My
> > machine did any crunching. I will NOT wait much longer before going back
> to
> > TSC.
> >
> > Get it working.
>
>
> Grow up.
>
>

Who the hell do you think you are, telling me to grow up?
I volunteer my time and comp to this project and it is nearly always off.
The whole idea of distributed networking is to keep things running and to keep volunteers informed of what is going on, they are failing miserably on both counts.
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Message 11476 - Posted: 22 Jul 2004, 19:33:52 UTC - in response to Message 11458.  

No. The whole idea of distributed computing is to use many computers to analyze something large by breaking it into small pieces for each computer to process. Keeping things running is a requirement for success, which they are working on, but is not the idea of it. Keeping the volunteers informed is not only not the idea of distributed computing, it's barely even a requisite. It is nice, and a wise thing to do. And they have been doing that. Rom for one has been doing that far more than I think he really has too. I so amazed to see someone on the Dev Team actually posting I almost didn't believe it. So back off and give it a rest. Distributed computing requires input from one end and if the data is processed as fast or faster than the data can be acquired, then great. That just means you get your results faster. Playing a game of solitaire on the computer doesn't require all of the RAM, Video abilities, or CPU power of your computer. Same thing. Distributed computing is a faster way to analyze a large amount of data. By allowing your computer to be used, you are allowing it to do work when the project needs your computer to do it, not requiring it to do work.

If you are tired of waiting for workunits, don't. Let BOINC wait for units since that's what it is designed to do. Or go use Classic. I don't care. Fighting about such stupid petty matters is pointless and solves nothing. So read what has already been said on many of the threads and try to look at the whole picture, not just the part that you want to see.

> Who the hell do you think you are, telling me to grow up?
> I volunteer my time and comp to this project and it is nearly always off.
> The whole idea of distributed networking is to keep things running and to keep
> volunteers informed of what is going on, they are failing miserably on both
> counts.
>
>
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Message 11491 - Posted: 22 Jul 2004, 20:07:17 UTC - in response to Message 11458.  


> Who the hell do you think you are, telling me to grow up?
> I volunteer my time and comp to this project and it is nearly always off.
> The whole idea of distributed networking is to keep things running and to keep
> volunteers informed of what is going on, they are failing miserably on both
> counts.
>

I am reason. That is who I am, telling you to grow up. Grow up and shut up while you're at it.

(Of course you won't shut up, because now I've wounded your precious male online ego pride. Prattle away.)
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Message 11494 - Posted: 22 Jul 2004, 20:24:45 UTC

After an 8 hour workday.

SETI classic: 2 WU downloads, 1.6 completed

BOINC: 0 downloads, 0 completed

So what if I'm re-crunching data. Down here we call that verifing results......and "busy" work is better than no work at all.
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Message 11495 - Posted: 22 Jul 2004, 20:30:45 UTC - in response to Message 11395.  

> 4 hours later.....SETI classic is 93% completed with current WU
>
> BOINC STILL waiting on a WU.
>
> Explain to me again how BOINC is a "better" solution

You may just be spinning your wheels with the classic work units. If you are processing a unit that has already been processed 10 other times, that's not "verifying" results, that's just wasting time to give you the illusion that you are accomplishing something. How many times does a work unit have to be processed and get the same results to be property "verified" in your view? 10? 20? 100?

I didn't know about the extreme reprocessing of work units with Classic, but if that is really the case, then BOINC is clearly superior. But you obviously don't agree. If you don't care about the science and actually accomplishing something, why don't you use Classic to work on the same WU over and over and over? At least "busy work" is better than no work at all, right?
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Message 11499 - Posted: 22 Jul 2004, 20:37:23 UTC
Last modified: 22 Jul 2004, 20:40:51 UTC

Currently classic is operating 6 times faster than BOINC.

At this rate, I can re-crunch the same data 5 times and STILL get 2 more WU completed per day than BOINC.

Now I didn't graduate from Berkeley, but they DID teach math at the school I went to, and I'm pretty sure I've got a firm grasp of the concept as well. The difference is that I'm not blowing smoke up your butt like these other guys. I'm giving you numbers from my own computer and my own 24/7 DSL connection.

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Message boards : Number crunching : no work from project AGAIN!!!


 
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