Global Warming - CLOSED

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Message 125120 - Posted: 19 Jun 2005, 0:41:51 UTC

From following this global warming debate for many years, I was always skeptical over the claims made that man alone was responsible for it. Global climate change has occurred throughout the history of the planet Earth and long before mankind was around. While I agree that we shouldn't pollute just to pollute and should reduce where possible, much of the argument has become strictly political and issues such as Kyoto do little more than take money from all through higher taxes and higher prices, restrict economic growth and create yet another huge and world-wide government bureaucracy that has few to answer to.

Even some environmentalists are beginning to question Kyoto in terms of how much it actually will help. According to a June 2005 article from the Center for International Climate and Environmental Research in Oslo, Norway, "...the Kyoto Protocol will not result in any noteworthy emissions reductions..." and that message is beginning to spread. To me, Kyoto is little more than a "feel good" measure so people can say, I did my part while doing little to nothing to actually reduce emissions besides tax and fine businesses and the population.

There are some good parts to Kyoto that should be explored further but it's doomed to fail as it is now. While everyone focuses on the 'ol mean and nasty USA for not joining it, few question or are even concerned that many large countries such as China won't sign on and many other countries, that also generate pollution, are exempt.

Punishing business and the world's population in the modernized world by forcing a flawed policy is not the answer nor is creating a huge new governmental bureaucracy. Part of the answer is to actually enforce the existing laws instead of creating a whole new set of laws based on Kyoto in addition to what is already there.



To truly explore, one must keep an open mind...
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Message 125124 - Posted: 19 Jun 2005, 0:51:23 UTC - in response to Message 125109.  

Actually it can't

CW.. you fill it in in Google. I've got 12,100 English pages for dislexic including some major English (.co.uk) ones. I also got a nice one from the US Navy. Then again, Americans can't pronounce easy things as aluminium and Giganotosaurus anyway, so why do I bother? ;)

Plus it may be spelled (and spelt) that way in languages other than English. :)
So don't 'stare yourself blind' on a dictionary. Besides (nudge) who in the New World is fascinated by the Old World languages anyway? ;)



Jord all I care about is the Medical Dictionary I had to use to pass the Paramedic Exam. A dis-functional family is not they same thing as a dysfunctional one.

AL-U-MIN-E-UM pffftttt!!!!


I'd rather speak my mind because it hurts too much to bite my tongue.

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Message 125133 - Posted: 19 Jun 2005, 1:17:42 UTC - in response to Message 125124.  

AL-U-MIN-E-UM pffftttt!!!!

LOL, I see you can spell it phonetically, Pete, but can you say it? Once maybe.
With the aid of a better beer than Budweiser, maybe even three times in a row. ;)

A delusion starts like any other idea, as an egg. Identical on the outside, perfectly formed. - Legion.
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Message 125151 - Posted: 19 Jun 2005, 1:51:31 UTC - in response to Message 125088.  

Hey! I resemble that remark! Not all of us from louisiana are from the swamps. I have remembered some of my college education, I can even spell when given (advance) notice. Oh yeah, of course I can say Aluminum:
AL-U-MIN-E-UM pffftttt!!!! (thanks CW) ;-)

Until the global community gets away from fossil fuels, global warming in small or large contributions by corporations/vehicles will continue to be a problem.








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Message 125159 - Posted: 19 Jun 2005, 1:59:51 UTC

Best get your money together then, KJF. By 2015 you can get a Toyota Hydrogen car for US$50,000 .. Make sure you win the lottery 3 times more to be able to replace that fuel cell every 6 months, at US$5,000 ;)


A delusion starts like any other idea, as an egg. Identical on the outside, perfectly formed. - Legion.
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Message 125165 - Posted: 19 Jun 2005, 2:15:25 UTC - in response to Message 125159.  

I remember a few years ago about a retired couple that played the lottery in Illinois, won approx. 10-20 million, they retired, went to Florida, played lottery there, won over 10 million.....

.o0(you think they thought about global warming then?)
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Message 125219 - Posted: 19 Jun 2005, 4:40:08 UTC - in response to Message 125151.  

Hey! I resemble that remark! Not all of us from louisiana are from the swamps. I have remembered some of my college education, I can even spell when given (advance) notice. Oh yeah, of course I can say Aluminum:
AL-U-MIN-E-UM pffftttt!!!!




Hot Humid Stinky straingly pretty, But boy the Natives......Ya heeeeeooo!








[/quote]

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Message 125244 - Posted: 19 Jun 2005, 5:29:37 UTC
Last modified: 19 Jun 2005, 5:37:47 UTC

I was just trying to start a discussion on a interesting topic. I am sorry if my spelling is so bad, I am very dyslectic and a collage grad. I spent 4 years of my life spell and grammer checking to get my BS. I am not going to spend all my time spell checking when I'm just BSing.
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Message 125253 - Posted: 19 Jun 2005, 5:41:40 UTC - in response to Message 125034.  

If you never considered that the threadstarter is possibly dyslexic/dislexic (I checked, it can go both), NA, then you missed out on at least one weather that should've been whether. ;)



This all started long ago when I once jokingly corrected the spelling of my Dutch teammate, Jord, aka Ageless.
Now I can see that I created a monster.



Account frozen...
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Message 125258 - Posted: 19 Jun 2005, 5:55:58 UTC

[font='fixedsys,courier']I wasn't trying to provoke anything, but I stand firm on Kyōto and ISS.[/font]
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Message 125261 - Posted: 19 Jun 2005, 6:05:54 UTC - in response to Message 125253.  

Maybe you should first check the rest of the thread, Dennis. It wasn't I who said anything.

Now, the next time you spell out-of-line, you expect me to come whip you. I ain't that kind of person, ask LB. :)

A delusion starts like any other idea, as an egg. Identical on the outside, perfectly formed. - Legion.
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Message 125268 - Posted: 19 Jun 2005, 6:29:45 UTC - in response to Message 125261.  

Maybe you should first check the rest of the thread, Dennis. It wasn't I who said anything.

Now, the next time you spell out-of-line, you expect me to come whip you. I ain't that kind of person, ask LB. :)


it was serious until this moment folks...
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Message 125465 - Posted: 19 Jun 2005, 22:19:58 UTC

I'm of the opinion that man thinks to much of him/her self. The planet has it's own cycles of operation. Some shorter and some longer. Ice ages come and go. To think MAN can significantly alter these cycles is giving US to much credit. There is more methane gas release in the cow dung of the world than man creates. A study can be arranged so that any particularly desired result can be obtained. It's my belief that this "Global Warming" thing is a load of crap created by man for what is most likely only political reasons. For example, when Reagan and Bush were president we heard about "Global Warming", then Clinton got elected, and we didn't hear a peep about it. Then another Bush got elected and it's back. Must be that Global warming stops when a Democrat is president.

I don't run CPDN, because I have other important projects to run and don't want to feed the "Global Warming" trolls that are just looking for "Evidence" to bash the Republicans with.

tony
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Message 125634 - Posted: 20 Jun 2005, 12:42:12 UTC

One thing that has been proven is the increase of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. You can argue global warming all you want, but co2 does trap heat. How much is required to warm the atmosphere is still the question.
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Message 125644 - Posted: 20 Jun 2005, 13:54:09 UTC - in response to Message 125634.  
Last modified: 20 Jun 2005, 13:55:21 UTC

One thing that has been proven is the increase of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. You can argue global warming all you want, but co2 does trap heat. How much is required to warm the atmosphere is still the question.


We're probably going to learn that the hard way as usual. Then it'll be too late.
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Message 125682 - Posted: 20 Jun 2005, 16:56:29 UTC - in response to Message 125465.  

I'm of the opinion that man thinks to much of him/her self. The planet has it's own cycles of operation. Some shorter and some longer. Ice ages come and go. To think MAN can significantly alter these cycles is giving US to much credit. There is more methane gas release in the cow dung of the world than man creates.


Yes, cow dung and farts contribute with enormous amounts of methane into the atmosphere, however, how come there are so many cows in the planet? Cow overpopulation is not natural either, it is purely man-made. If one man pollutes the air with CO2, CO and god knows what, it is true that it will have a very little impact, if any. But we're about 6,000,000,000 humans on Earth. And we didn't just pop in 50 years ago. We've been polluting air since the Industrial Revolution.

Yes, the planet has it's own cycles, but humans not only pollute air... we also pollute the soil, poison rivers, lakes and ponds, we destroy forests and destroy habitats for hundreds of species. We are doing this every day, and have done it for quite a while. We're destroying a delicate equilibrium, we're destroying everything, and without noticing or caring (sometimes we do notice, and that is even worse). I agree, to make 6,000,000,000 people understand the consequences of their actions is an impossible task... and we're going to keep polluting Earth in every way imaginable. Just do it the least you can.

Try not to pollute. Throw the garbage in its place. Make 'composta' (don't know the word in english...) out of organic materials. Avoid unnecessary car-trips (you'll even save gas). Help yourself.

This is not intended for mmciastro, it's for everyone out there. I'm not an activist, I won't go out and protest about global warming and ecological disasters, but that doesn't mean I don't care. Please, don't turn our world in a pile of shit.


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Message 125693 - Posted: 20 Jun 2005, 17:56:30 UTC - in response to Message 125682.  

Throw the garbage in its place. Make 'composta' (don't know the word in english...) out of organic materials. Avoid unnecessary car-trips (you'll even save gas). Help yourself.



compost!!

I'd rather speak my mind because it hurts too much to bite my tongue.

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Message 125700 - Posted: 20 Jun 2005, 18:28:12 UTC - in response to Message 125682.  

Yes, cow dung and farts contribute with enormous amounts of methane into the atmosphere, however, how come there are so many cows in the planet? Cow overpopulation is not natural either, it is purely man-made. If one man pollutes the air with CO2, CO and god knows what, it is true that it will have a very little impact, if any. But we're about 6,000,000,000 humans on Earth. And we didn't just pop in 50 years ago. We've been polluting air since the Industrial Revolution.

Yes, the planet has it's own cycles, but humans not only pollute air... we also pollute the soil, poison rivers, lakes and ponds, we destroy forests and destroy habitats for hundreds of species. We are doing this every day, and have done it for quite a while. We're destroying a delicate equilibrium, we're destroying everything, and without noticing or caring (sometimes we do notice, and that is even worse). I agree, to make 6,000,000,000 people understand the consequences of their actions is an impossible task... and we're going to keep polluting Earth in every way imaginable. Just do it the least you can.

Try not to pollute. Throw the garbage in its place. Make 'composta' (don't know the word in english...) out of organic materials. Avoid unnecessary car-trips (you'll even save gas). Help yourself.

This is not intended for mmciastro, it's for everyone out there. I'm not an activist, I won't go out and protest about global warming and ecological disasters, but that doesn't mean I don't care. Please, don't turn our world in a pile of shit.


We've been polluting the Earth since well before the Industrial Revolution. Every open fire (even natural ones), every hole dug for a toilet, every garbage pile going back 10,000 years has had an impact on the earth. Even though we have many more people on Earth now, we are also doing more than ever to clean our waste and prevent it from going into streams and lakes; we are requiring cleaner buring of fossil fuels in factories and cars; and recycling efforts are being supported at the grassroots level in the US and in much of the industrialized world. All of this is good.

You say we are "destroying a delicate equilibrium", but consider that we may be changing the world in such a way that the effects will not come anywhere near destroying the planet. And that is the crux of the discussion: are we destroying the planet or not? If proof that the planet is in trouble is found in "global warming", then it is not convincing because there are too many other reasons (other than Man's influence) that climate and weather will change from month to month, year to year and decade to decade.
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Message 125714 - Posted: 20 Jun 2005, 19:30:24 UTC - in response to Message 125682.  

Yes, the planet has it's own cycles, but humans not only pollute air... we also pollute the soil, poison rivers, lakes and ponds, we destroy forests and destroy habitats for hundreds of species.


As do natural forces. The first oil well in US that was located in Titusville PA was drilled where it was primarily due to oil natually flowing into a nearby stream. Oil seeps naturally into the Gulf of Mexico from areas not drilled by man and leaves large oil slicks. Fires that destroy forests and grasslands are not always caused by man but most are caused by lightning . Plauges that have decimated species have occurred naturally through out time. Volcanos can spew out more pollution in one day than 3,600 power plants. None of these are man-made nor are able to be controlled by man.

While I agree we need to care about the environment, avoid dumping toxic waste and recycle what is feasible, we also need to understand that man isn't the only source of pollution on this Earth and man has little influence in the grand scheme of things. Mother Nature is self healing, has been doing so since the Earth was formed and is much more powerful than man in the long run.

One problem with all this environmentalism is this. It focuses only on the certain areas of the globe with nations such as Brazil, China, Russia getting a pass while the US, Canada, Great Britian and much of the EU have to do more to reduce their output to cover the main offenders. It also assumes that nature doesn't pollute, only man does, when nature routinely out-pollutes man on a daily basis.



To truly explore, one must keep an open mind...
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Message 125716 - Posted: 20 Jun 2005, 19:37:46 UTC - in response to Message 125700.  


You say we are "destroying a delicate equilibrium", but consider that we may be changing the world in such a way that the effects will not come anywhere near destroying the planet. And that is the crux of the discussion: are we destroying the planet or not? If proof that the planet is in trouble is found in "global warming", then it is not convincing because there are too many other reasons (other than Man's influence) that climate and weather will change from month to month, year to year and decade to decade.


No, the planet is not going to be destroyed, obviously... and the ecosystem will not only be altered by global warming alone. My point was that humans are doing damage on lots of fronts. Global warming, destroying forests and habitats, poisoning water...

Besides, weather is a delicate thing. It depends not on 1 factor, but on several of them, so many that we humans cannot build a model that can predict weather rather accurately. By adding methane, CO2, CO... to the atmosphere, we are messing with things we don't even completely understand. Of course the global weather does not only depend on mankind, but whatever man does affects the weather system. We may not rise temperatures by 20 degrees in a single year, but we are affecting it nonetheless. What will happen? who knows... but there are some things we better not play with...

well, those are my thoughts and opinions.. share yours!
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