I walked through Christiania some time around 1980 and was impressed with some of the homes at that time but I recently saw a TV prog’ here in Dubai about the impending end of Christiania.
I understand that the Military on whose land Christiania is built have sold off the land to developers and it is Prime Developement Land.
At the time the discussion was exactly what you said Lene, “What Then??”
Where will the drug pushers go and how will the police cope when it spreads throughout the beautiful ancient city?
Johnnie

In the 80' Christiania has started to lose it's "innocence"!

As for selling the land, the rich people, who live there already can buy their lot and start pay taxes and expences as we others in this society! They won't pay as they see themselves as outside society in their own "Fristad - Freetown", but when they need the benefits from that society, they reject, they are there to be found!!!

Lene??? You mean Lene Espersen, the Minister of justice here????

I think no matter what the future of Christiania will be, there will be drug crime and other kind of crimes, and it has moved to other places, most to Nørrebro, where there's a large concentration of Islamic immigrant or Second generation Danes, as they're called, as they are very unadapted children of immigrants mostly from Islamic countries.

Because of a special clause in the Danish immigration law, it has been the case that people who come here, both as immigrants and refugees are entitled to get their family brought here ot live with them! And their children are offered special education in their native languages! This has furthered that many of the children from the Islamic countries enter into cousin marriages and with this almost all the relatives are being brought here to live. These people, as the kids learn their language in school, and speak their langauge at home, hardly are integrated in society! Many of them, as they don't speak Danish, can't get jobs and therefore live on subsidies! And we have one of the best social systems in the world, which we are very proud of! But living of the system, these people are alienated as they are not poor enough but neither rich, so they can't buy, what they see people with jobs can afford! So the crime is growing in these circles! Drugs, stolen goods, tax cheating, you name it, they do it! Latest gang related crime and shooting!

This clause has been discussed over and over again the latest years, and the Government has gone for election on this subject. The problem is that every time they tighten up this clause, it hits the Danes (such as myself) also as they can't make laws only for the Islamic part of the people, so if e.g. I marry an American (anybody outside from EU!) and want to live here with him, we're not sure to be allowed! And when they tighten up so this happens, people are outraged, so the politicians needs to losen up again, with the result that more cousins are brought here from Turkey, Pakistan, Middle-East and on is goes!!! This problem is very complex and not easily solved!

I don't know if you've heard of a young Italian tourist, who were stabbed to death after only a few hours here in Denmark? He was the wrong place the wrong time! And that was not Christiania! Latest in the circles of the immigrants from Russia and East Europe, where sex-slaves are a big problem. Young girls are brought here and kept in brothels as sexslaves and/or in the porn-industry! Also from East Asia they come, where they think they are hired for jobs, but where the "jobs" are in the sex-industry! And it's not only in the immigrant circles the organized crime takes place, also in the biker circles, as Hells Angels and Bandidos!

I think the crime and drugs are spread and over the country as in so many other countries. We are not this little H.C. Andersen country as they want to depict us in the tourist industry, and no, Denmark today is very far from Solvang in California!

Sorry to take you out of the vision, you might have of little picturesque Denmark!

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"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

I walked through Christiania some time around 1980 and was impressed with some of the homes at that time but I recently saw a TV prog’ here in Dubai about the impending end of Christiania.
I understand that the Military on whose land Christiania is built have sold off the land to developers and it is Prime Developement Land.
At the time the discussion was exactly what you said Lene, “What Then??”
Where will the drug pushers go and how will the police cope when it spreads throughout the beautiful ancient city?
Johnnie

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To Whiskey, from this post!

Yep.
The good thing about Christania was that they kept all that stuff in one place and the police were able to keep tabs on people, but I'm getting off topic.

Johnnie.

For these, who don't know what Christiania is, look here on their official website, where they present themselves!

Another website is this site and specially this site express the spirit Christiania wants to give!

At first sight it also seems very idyllic and people often become nostalgic after the good old late 60' and early 70', when they see this, what can appear as Utopia, specially on a sunny summerday in July!

But, as often with these Utopias, the reality often shows a grim face! As Christiania has developed through the years, it has seperated into two parts: the wealthy hippies, the students from the 70', who now, after their college degrees, have wellpaid jobs in society, where they have houses in Christiania, cheap, but in luxury and siting can be compared to any luxurious "Strandvejsvilla", house sited at the coast of Øresund north of Copenhagen, the most expensive place in Denmark, and the other part, the drugusers, the social outcasts/clients who can't live in society, the Inuits from Greenland, who can't adapt to life in Southern-Denmark and others. The wealthy part tries to push the social dropouts out of Christiania, as they want to make it "kosher", but, as far as I know, they haven't succeded (yet!)!

And life in e.g. Fredens Ark is not at pretty life. 11 - 12 year old kids selling drugs is not a pretty sight neither. And the people who comes there to buy drugs! Latest, the police have driven the drugtrade away from Christiania, with the result that, as you stated, Johnnie, that this trade which before was contained in Christiania, now has moved to other places in Copehagen, specially Nørrebro, which has developed into the most crime infested area in Denmark!

But, in the view that keeping things, that will take place anyway, to certain ares, it can look very seducing, but it comes with a price! Again, some areas and buildings in Christiania are not nice places, and the people living there are in a very bad shape! Is it OK to have e.g. a psychotic person living there without any medication, because living in Christiania, that person is without reach for the social systems, and because the philosophy there is the ultimate freedom, that person will not be offered any help? I think being psychotic is being in a very painfull state of mind, and there are nothing beautifull or spiritual in the condition of a full-blown psychosis, it's abandoning people not to take them to hospital to have them medicated!! Living in the most socially outcast position is just as painfull! In society they can be taken care of, but living in Christiania, they are handed what they can get! Again, I think of the young drugselling kids, I've met there, this is not a developing and inspiring enviroment for kids!

If anybody out there have an another view on Christiania, feel free to express yourself here in a discussion!

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"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

Fuzzy:

Tråden er allerede blevet længee end jeg selv regnede med - men dog gået i en hel anden retning end jeg forventede *lol*

Bruno, det ved du da, at det kunne ske! :-D

For the others, yes, threads often go in directions, the creator never expected, when first initialized!!! :-D

Yep, I know :D Especially when there were no specific topic ;)

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Tråden er allerede blevet længee end jeg selv regnede med - men dog gået i en hel anden retning end jeg forventede *lol*

I think that is my fault Bruno!
SKAAL

Don't worry about it ;) It's practically a non-topic thread anyway, and as such could go in any direction ;) So noone has done anything wrong or something like that to the thread ;)

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Take a look!

And if you would like to join us, feel free! We are a merry bunch of lunatics over there!

I looked, I jumped in. If TFFE is good enough for a crazy alcoholic Dane it'll do for me!
I hope my meagre contribution helps to boost the numbers.
Johnnie

Johnnie, ehhhh, there are no alcoholic Danes over there, just FYI! But lunatics, yes, a lot!

But you are wellcome! I've already greeted you over there!

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"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

Fuzzy:

Tråden er allerede blevet længee end jeg selv regnede med - men dog gået i en hel anden retning end jeg forventede *lol*

Bruno, det ved du da, at det kunne ske! :-D

For the others, yes, threads often go in directions, the creator never expected, when first initialized!!! :-D

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"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

Tråden er allerede blevet længee end jeg selv regnede med - men dog gået i en hel anden retning end jeg forventede *lol*

I think that is my fault Bruno!
SKAAL

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Fuzzy:

Tråden er allerede blevet længee end jeg selv regnede med - men dog gået i en hel anden retning end jeg forventede *lol*

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Take a look!

And if you would like to join us, feel free! We are a merry bunch of lunatics over there!

I looked, I jumped in. If TFFE is good enough for a crazy alcoholic Dane it'll do for me!
I hope my meagre contribution helps to boost the numbers.
Johnnie

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Join the #1 UAE Team.

GRRRR.
Try again
Where do you think this was taken?
Only in California?

Johnnie

Hi again Johnnie!

I'll reply to only one of your posts, if that's Ok with you! ;-)

LOLLLL!!!! Only on Strøget, Copenhagen, a young man wouldn't pay any notice when he's passing a young lady wearing nothing else but body paint!!!

Here's an another lesson for you: How to put in small images such as gif's:







Which I actually practised in my younger days, BTW!

And the Monty Python beers was "served" at my last birthday over at The Final Front Ear, the BIGGEST Little Team, anywhere! Take a look!

And if you would like to join us, feel free! We are a merry bunch of lunatics over there!

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"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

How many Johnny Walkers have you had ?
:)

Soddin Carlesberg Export!!

Yuk!
McCallan single malt here mate!

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How many Johnny Walkers have you had ?
:)

Soddin Carlesberg Export!!

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Join the #1 UAE Team.

GRRRR.
Try again
Where do you think this was taken?
Only in California?

Johnnie

How many Johnny Walkers have you had ?
:)

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GRRRR.
Try again
Where do you think this was taken?
Only in California?

Johnnie

---

Join the #1 UAE Team.

GRRRR.
Try again
Where do you think this was taken?
Only in California?

Johnnie

---

Join the #1 UAE Team.

GRRRR.
Try again
Where do you think this was taken?
Only in California?

Johnnie

---

Join the #1 UAE Team.

Thanx Fuzzy,
I have just been to the F1 club to watch the Canadian F1 Quallies on the big screen. The F1 Club is in a Pub called the George and Dragon so I can have a nice steak and a glug of wine while I watch the action. They won't let me book a permanent table for the GP's through the season so I have to go to the quallies just to make sure that I get the table that I want for the race! It's standing room only on race day and the atmosphere is great. Better than watching it at home.

Thx for your pics, made me thirsty!!
I'm learning a lot by reading the code in your replies, you are so quick though.
SO, I put the pic into the bucket so lets see if I can get the code right.

Only in California? Where do you think this was taken?


Johnnie

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Thanx Fuzzy,
I have just been to the F1 club to watch the Canadian F1 Quallies on the big screen. The F1 Club is in a Pub called the George and Dragon so I can have a nice steak and a glug of wine while I watch the action. They won't let me book a permanent table for the GP's through the season so I have to go to the quallies just to make sure that I get the table that I want for the race! It's standing room only on race day and the atmosphere is great. Better than watching it at home.

Thx for your pics, made me thirsty!!
I'm learning a lot by reading the code in your replies, you are so quick though.
SO, I put the pic into the bucket so lets see if I can get the code right.

Only in California? Where do you think this was taken?
[url=http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/wadibasher/OnlyInCalifornia.jpg]

Johnnie

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Join the #1 UAE Team.

Hehehe stay calm. The US are good at stealing stuff. They re-write history too. That U-Boat film a couple of years back...a whole 2 hours on how a US sub got a German cipher machine of a Nazi sub. LOL did they hell....it was the Brit Navy. At the end of the credits after the film....there a single line to say none of this actaully happend and it was the Brits. But every US kids now thinks it did happen...like phones and morse.

Remember they have little history.....they killed most of the indians and destroyed their holy places.....so they have to make it up!

Cafeful there Brit Boy.. Samuel Morse was born in the US, as was Alexander Graham Bell

As for the Movie U-541 I am glad that you think that our education system is superceded by a movie. While it is true that the British take credit for breaking the Enigma code it is extremely funny that Bristish history seems to leave out the rather important detail of how the Polish helped.

NOTE: that last link is from a UK site..

SO Tigher before you go accusing anyone of anything make sure your own historical facts are pure...

I was making reference to the generic propensity of Americans, who I like very much btw and have many many US frinds, to take a liberal view of historic events. I have absolute first hand experience of standing in museum in Concord listening to a history teacher tell 8 year old kids about the British and the war of independence. I challenged her inaccurate account as I would challenge any untruth. After I had lambasted her with the truth she apologised to her children and the parents present. She gave a quite different account after that! I like the US.....your are our greatest friends beyond doubt. BUT...as a national pastime you bring about national elevation through distorting the facts. Its known across the world. To deny it is to admit it.

Anyhow......peace brother :-))


ps don't call me boy....I aint from NC!
and there is dispute about what Morse and Bell did or didn't do
and you didn't even give the Poles a line at the end of the film....at least we got one I suppose. Oh and if you go to Bletchley Park you will see the roles of all involved. But there were no Amercian film directors interestingly.
and don't dig too deep for pure facts yourself ....you'll be thinking like a Brit if you do

:)

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