I agree with you, ghstwolf. But having gone through the process of rendering (only to find out on Friday that the damn thing had run out of disk space on Wednesday), I really do see the advantage of speed and power that BURP offers.

I don't see any commercial entity using BURP. I don't even know what the 3D input format is! But Disney, Dreamworks, Pixar, and SGI are on their own - They've got higher-end tools. This is (IMO) the public's way of saying "Yeah, we can do that, and a little bit faster to boot!"

Maybe you could sell your BURP credits on eBay, like an Everquest character or something...

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NA- Where the bank system requires you to dedicate resources, I would say the "donation" required (not sure if cash is king there) means even a for profit work is "paid" for. And any cruncher can get something back, while I probably won't run it, in my mind at least it meets the 3 criteria I layed out earlier.

RDC- I was speaking only from the end user perspective on a public project. If a company wanted to run a boinc project in-house, they have every right to do so, and I would never complain about it. I was hoping this could be a warning to companies about our expectations for their projects.

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Still looking for something profound or inspirational to place here.

> Anyway, I was thinking, what would make a directly (even SETI could result in
> profits, but it is so remote that it isn't worth talking about) "for profit"
> project aceptable?
>

I have thought about this some in the past from reading the various posts on for profit crunching on the number crunching board. I for one probably wouldn't crunch for a true for profit project but BOINC would make a great platform for companies that need research done. I do think that someday that companies that would stand to make a profit from utilizing BOINC for part of their research could/should utilize the platform internally on their company Intranet rather than make it a public project. While a stand alone application would work for an Intranet application, BOINC would allow for multiple projects on all the computers in the company.

A "for profit" project has issues on both sides as well, not just on the user side especially if it is a company with many employees. While you stated the user end issues well, a for profit project most likely would have issues on the company side including tighter deadlines, departmental budget restrictions that can be far worse than those found in academia, the need for better control over the data for patent protection reasons and the project most likely would be subjected to managerial decisions from managers that probably don't understand what is going on with the project. Then there is the bane of any project, public or private which is dealing with the people that whine just to hear themselves whine. IT and project teams on internal projects get enough of that from the employees in the company and dealing with some of the much stronger complaining from the general public would just cause more problems.

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To truly explore, one must keep an open mind...

Short
You'd be helping someone render a computer animation. That someone may one day be yourself.

Long
BURP (The Big and Ugly Rendering Project) aims to develop a publicly distributed system for rendering 3D animations. Some examples can be found here. As a user renders frames, he/she gains credits that can be "cashed in". By cashing in your credits, your projects can be rendered using the BURP system.

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Hi All,
I am trying to follow the conversation on this thread, but I am lost. I have a Burp account, but have not used it soley because i do not understand the concept, and what it is actually supposed to do for us. Can someone summerize the project for me in laymans terms.
Thank You In Advance!

Respectfully,

Rocky

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www.boincsynergy.com

@ Spectrum: Meet me over [url=http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=14035#103740]here!<a>

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"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

Thats ok but keep the claws in while your circling on my lap purring and trying to get comfortabe :)

BTY I loved the sonet you posted for Byron, and have to ask if you like the harpsichord?

> OOHHh fuzzie I think you are tired, I have never seen your sentences so broken
> or uninteligable, come sit on my lap and sleep while I stroke your soft fur.
>

Huh?

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"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

> As far as I've understood BURP, it's for people who don't have the big
> rendering powers themselves, so by putting one WU in the "bank", you can later
> "draw" a WU from others from the "bank".
>
> I don't see anything wrong with that even there are some who use it for
> profit. People who are interested in BURP are all people who don't have the
> money and means to afford their own rendering power and programs, so I think
> it's cool to help each other out in this.
>
> The big companies (such) as Disney and Pixar would never use BURP as they have their
> own resources, and even (if)a company used BURP and earned some money, isn't it
> what (we) all are in for? Earning money??? My sympathy goes with the small
> struggling entrepreneur. And if BURP can pave the way for them, it's OK for
> me.
>
> I don't participate in BURP myself as it's still in alpha and I only have one
> computer to use. Had I a computer more, I would most probably provide it for
> something like BURP.
>
OOHHh fuzzie I think you are tired, I have never seen your sentences so broken or uninteligable, come sit on my lap and sleep while I stroke your soft fur.

No offence or anything untowards meant Holly just a poke in the ribs!! :)

I can't wait for my first BELCH. There will be much festivity on that day...

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>
> I will BURP as soon as the project app becomes available - I've spent many a
> weary night with fingers crossed waiting for a render to finish.
>
> BURP might to for-profit renders, but BURP's advantage is that it's able to
> give back to those who participate. No other for-profit project does that
> (AFAICT).
>

As far as I've understood BURP, it's for people who don't have the big rendering powers themselves, so by putting one WU in the "bank", you can later "draw" a WU from others from the "bank".

I don't see anything wrong with that even there are some who use it for profit. People who are interested in BURP are all people who don't have the money and means to afford their own rendering power and programs, so I think it's cool to help each other out in this.

The big companies as Disney and Pixar would never use BURP as they have their own ressources, and even a company used BURP and earned some money, isn't it what all are in for? Earning money??? My sympathy goes with the small struggling entrepreneur. And if BURP can pave the way for them, it's OK for me.

I don't participate in BURP myself as it's still in alpha and I only have one computer to use. Had I a computer more, I would most probably provide it for something like BURP.

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"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

I won't Fold because of the patent/profit issue.

I will BURP as soon as the project app becomes available - I've spent many a weary night with fingers crossed waiting for a render to finish.

BURP might to for-profit renders, but BURP's advantage is that it's able to give back to those who participate. No other for-profit project does that (AFAICT).

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It is coming, and it is a bit of a sore spot for me. Last time I did it, I pretty much swore them off, and I'd guess there is a few others that tried that miserable UD cancer program. I say miserable not because I'm against the goal, but because the admin had a certain attitude that (had it been the first project I'd ever been on) would have kept me away from trying any DC project again. They couldn't get their heads around the fact that some (if not most) people want status reports (even if there isn't much to report). It got even worse when people (including myself) started to question the end result, how dare we want to know things like whether what we saved them (in the research phase) would have any bearing on the price. Ok, enough venting.

Anyway, I was thinking, what would make a directly (even SETI could result in profits, but it is so remote that it isn't worth talking about) "for profit" project aceptable?

I'm thinking that it would have to meet a few criteria. First, it has to be somewhat open (ie tell us WTF is going on). Second, clearly state the out-come, uses, and in the case of products how cost will be determined. Third, be ready to pay participants or make a donation or two (based on participation), again following the golden rule (be open and up front about it). What are your thoughts about this?

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Still looking for something profound or inspirational to place here.