> While we commemorate one side's fallen soldiers, there should
> be 'remembrance' and recognition of the fallen foe.

Agreed. However, on this note, I would like to ask how many Americans take the time to respect the fallen German dead during Auschwitz anniversaries. Perhaps there is a time and a place.

> When we remember the dead of past wars of Empire, we should note also the
> consequences of nation building.

ANZAC Day has special feelings for NZers, as it represents one of the last wars where we automatically followed our Empire to where we were ordered. Therefore, memorial days like this are likely to become even more bitter-sweet in the future. Therefore, it is a reminder to us of our days of being part of an Empire, as opposed to any feelings about nation building (not something that NZers are known for, although a few Pacific peoples nations may have something else to say on that topic).

:)

> One day Paul I would like to go fishing with you.

Off topic... Hoping someday to visit Australia and try my hand at the fish there also.

(spectrum, ....put up a post in the fishing thread about fishing Australia...)

---

> Between April 25 and December 20, 1915, in an area of 20 kilometres by 8, the
> following numbers of troops were killed:
> *
>
> 86,692 Turkish
> *
>
> 8,709 Australian
> *
>
> 2,701 New Zealanders
> *
>
> 27,000 British and Indian"
> *
>
> 10,000 French
> --------------------------------------------------
>


> While we commemorate one side's fallen soldiers, there should be 'remembrance'
> and recognition of the fallen foe.
>
> Our perspective should expand to delve into the actions of Empire, whether it
> be British or Ottoman.
>
> Finally, we should be aware of what the various outcomes have come to mean for
> the world today.
>
> If we play this story out, we will find how the Middle East has come to be
> shaped not by internal forces but redrawn in arbitrary political lines,
> shifting cultural and political power.
>
> When we remember the dead of past wars of Empire, we should note also the
> consequences of nation building.
>
>
>
>
> additional reading
>



One day Paul I would like to go fishing with you.

Between April 25 and December 20, 1915, in an area of 20 kilometres by 8, the following numbers of troops were killed: 
*

86,692 Turkish 
*

8,709 Australian 
*

2,701 New Zealanders 
*

27,000 British and Indian"
*

10,000 French
--------------------------------------------------

While we commemorate one side's fallen soldiers, there should be 'remembrance' and recognition of the fallen foe.

Our perspective should expand to delve into the actions of Empire, whether it be British or Ottoman.

Finally, we should be aware of what the various outcomes have come to mean for the world today.

If we play this story out, we will find how the Middle East has come to be shaped not by internal forces but redrawn in arbitrary political lines, shifting cultural and political power.

When we remember the dead of past wars of Empire, we should note also the consequences of nation building.




additional reading

---

> Tēnā koutou (formal greeting to many people)
>
>
> Byron, Magenta & Eberndl, thank you all for your kind words and wishes on
> this day of remembrance

I missed the dawn service due to my daughter babysitting and waiting for her to call to be picked up at 3:40 am this morning 25th (then I went to bed)
However I have had the honour this afernoon of having had a few beers and a game of TWO UP with some servicemen and a couple of Kiwi's who were there at garden Island (HMAS STIRLING) this afternoon, who still display the the nature of what it is to be an ANZAC.
(My definition can not do them enough justice) A mate regardless of where you are from, a larrikin in the best possible way, a heart alway filled with the best wishes for his family and friends, someone that all Aussies and Kiwis alike should cherish and remember in our hearts.
My day is complete.

Tēnā koutou (formal greeting to many people)


Byron, Magenta & Eberndl, thank you all for your kind words and wishes on this day of rememerance.

Anzac Day

Magenta .... and .... Spectrum

our thoughts are with the people of .... New Zealand ... and .... Australia .......

Lest we forget




and also ....

thank you very much Magenta ...

... for your kind words , and your very beautiful posts ....

Peace .. and .. Best Wishes ..

to ... Magenta ...and ... Spectrum

byron

[url=http://www.westerncanadahomestay.ca/Vancouver-01.jpg ] Pacific West Coast Canada [/url]

> Hi Magenta .....
> I have learned something new today .....
> Kia Ora
>
> Kia Ora and Kisses From New Zealand ... each other with the traditional Maori
> salutation,"Kia ora", which means hello and/or goodbye.

Kia ora Byron. Ka pai for that link (i.e. you did a really good job). :) :)

Haere ra.

More history on this, from a NZ perspective;
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/Gallery/Anzac/Anzac.htm

Lest we forget:
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/Gallery/Anzac/deaths.htm

Some in NZ argue that this particular offensive (Chunuk Bair) should receive more attention), perhaps a second day dedicated to it - rather than a replacement for ANZAC day:
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/Gallery/Anzac/galli-poli/sari-bair.htm

> > Kia ora Magenta
>
> Kia ora e hoa.
>
> No NZ koe? (probably got this question wrong, excuse any mistranslation)
>
==============================================

Hi Magenta .....

I have learned something new today .....


Kia Ora

Kia Ora and Kisses From New Zealand ... each other with the traditional Maori
salutation,"Kia ora", which means hello and/or goodbye.




My very best wishes
friendly and respectful
byron


Pacific West Coast Canada

> Kia ora Magenta

Kia ora e hoa.

No NZ koe? (probably got this question wrong, excuse any mistranslation)

thank you eberndl ......

In Flander's Fields .... Lt-Col John McCrae

Magenta .... and .... Spectrum

our thoughts are with the people of .... New Zealand ... and .... Australia ...

Anzac Day

http://www.tki.org.nz/r/hot_topics/anzac_e.php


byron

Vancouver/Canada

I have cried every time I've heard/read In Flander's Fields since I was about 12...

Of course, here in Canada we hear it in November, but nonetheless...

In Flander's Fields
Lt-Col John McCrae

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.


Lest we forget.

(Odd though, because the poem is not for peace... we are supposed to "take up the quarrel"...)

---

Anzac Day

Magenta .... and .... Spectrum

our thoughts are with the people of .... New Zealand ... and .... Australia ...

Lest we forget


byron

[url=http://www.westerncanadahomestay.ca/Vancouver-01.jpg ]Vancouver / Canada[/url]

> To commemorate the NZ and Australian soldiers who died this day in 1915, at
> Gallipoli. 90th anniversary.
>
> http://www.rsa.org.nz/remem/anzac_2005.htm
>
> http://www.tki.org.nz/r/hot_topics/anzac_e.php
>
> I know this is a day early for some forum members. :)
>

Lest we forget

Kia ora Magenta

To commemorate the NZ and Australian soldiers who died this day in 1915, at Gallipoli. 90th anniversary.

http://www.rsa.org.nz/remem/anzac_2005.htm

http://www.tki.org.nz/r/hot_topics/anzac_e.php

I know this is a day early for some forum members. :)