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Quoting in forums
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 Paul Zimmerman has no class  Send message Joined: 10 Apr 05 Posts: 18 Credit: 1,791 RAC: 0 
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I am also on dialup and therefore do not appreciate your comments. I shall visit your website and comment there many times as I feel appropriate.  If loyalty is given then loyalty is expected in return! Democracy abhors secrecy! <img src="http://www.pixoland.com/aga_glouton2bis.gif"> ID: 131956 ·  |
m.mitch  Send message Joined: 27 Jun 01 Posts: 338 Credit: 127,769 RAC: 0 
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Those repeaters cost money. The DSLAM needed in the first place cost money. The Telco is not going to spend this money if there is not going to be a return on investment in a short period of time. If I understand this correctly, my isp iiNet, is spending $AU9.6 million putting DSLAM into 111 exchanges: http://iinet.net.au/news/dslam_expansion.pdf That's about $US61,000 each (@ ~ $US0.70 to $AU1.00) $AU12 million in total (inc. infrastructure). iiNet also say they only have 28,000 DSLAM customers and they're still going too add another 100 exchanges to their DSLAM network: http://iinet.net.au/about/investor/announce_adsl2.pdf The articles don't mention they purchased another ISP almost between announcements. [EDIT: Yes they do, my bad] They've spent more than I thought but I don't think it's a huge amount. Now, having done that arithmetic, I'm not sure how they make a profit on what they charge retail customers. Hope they've got it figured out. Mike Click here to join the #1 Aussie Alliance in SETI ID: 126395 · |
Celtic Wolf  Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 3278 Credit: 595,676 RAC: 0
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I can tell you there is a small Telco in a small town in Kentucky that is giving everyone of there Phone/Cable customers 100mbits. The local high school already has a 1Gbit line to the internet. This miracle is brought to you by Fiber to the Premise. FTTP is some cool stuff.. I'd rather speak my mind because it hurts too much to bite my tongue. American Spirit BBQ Proudly Serving those that courageously defend freedom. ID: 126191 · |
karthwyne  Send message Joined: 24 May 99 Posts: 218 Credit: 5,750,702 RAC: 0
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....... and too far for DSL. ...... i can't say too much but bellsouth is supposed to have 6M available this year, no idea what the loop length max will be. and the rumour is that it takes 8 people to sign up to be notified when dsl service is available in an area for them to take the cost to run DSL out there. as for DSL2+, that IS in testing. but as i understand it, everyone is having trouble getting longer distances on copper, if it is a longer copper loop fiber will need to replace it. i know that bellsouth at least is working on getting more of the network fiber. one of the telcos (verizon?) is activly replacing all copper. of course, korea and japan already have 26M+ DSL. but get more detailed info for your area at dslreports.com ;) happy crunching Micah  S@h Berkeley's Staff Friends Club
ID: 126179 · |
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Celtic Wolf Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 3278 Credit: 595,676 RAC: 0
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....... and too far for DSL. ...... Those repeaters cost money. The DSLAM needed in the first place cost money. The Telco is not going to spend this money if there is not going to be a return on investment in a short period of time. The same holds true with the cable companies. TIme-Warner for instance will not build out a node unless there are at least 5 households per mile though the entire node. I'd rather speak my mind because it hurts too much to bite my tongue. American Spirit BBQ Proudly Serving those that courageously defend freedom. ID: 126031 · |
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m.mitch Send message Joined: 27 Jun 01 Posts: 338 Credit: 127,769 RAC: 0
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....... and too far for DSL. ...... I thought with DSL2/2+ there was almost no such thing as "too far". My ISP claims they’re getting 24k (instead of 5 with DSL 1) during testing before they need to install more powerful repeaters. They're putting them on lampposts where they can (the repeaters are still quite small) and in some cases placing them at the entry points of obliging customers, etc. The smaller in-line repeaters go underground with the Telcos standard copper cables. Damn, they must be real small, the Telcos here are really bureaucratic & bloody-minded. In the meantime, I can’t wait to get my 12Mbit connection (which is only half what DSL2 is capable of). UPDATE: Just checked ISP’s web site. Trials at 24Mbit have just started (YES!). The go ahead for DSL1/2/2+ auto configure has been given. That’s three standard speeds 1.5 Mbit, 8 Mbit & 12 Mbit! Not too shabby. Okay, not much of an update for all of you, but really good for me 8-) Mike Click here to join the #1 Aussie Alliance in SETI ID: 125896 · |
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Paul D. Buck Send message Joined: 19 Jul 00 Posts: 3898 Credit: 1,158,042 RAC: 0
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You also only described the simplest of the compression algorythms - Run length encoding. But all compression algorythms look for repeating patterns in one way or another. Well, if my experience with writing documentation has taught me one thing ... it is that long explanations though necessary, are rarely welcomed ... sigh .... But yes, you are correct ... one of the more intriguing compression techniques is the one using fractals ... especially in things like virtual reality modeling ... ID: 124123 · |
John McLeod VII  Send message Joined: 15 Jul 99 Posts: 24806 Credit: 790,712 RAC: 0
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Loss-less compression usually cannot get higher compression ratios than 2:1; lossy compression can achieve very high rates if you don't care about the subsequent loss of detail. How much compression can be squeezed out depends on how much repeat there is in the data. INI and XML files tend to be very compressable (in the range of 50 to 90% reduction), encrypted and already compressed files tend to be incompressable. You also only described the simplest of the compression algorythms - Run length encoding. But all compression algorythms look for repeating patterns in one way or another.   BOINC WIKI ID: 123919 · |
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Paul D. Buck Send message Joined: 19 Jul 00 Posts: 3898 Credit: 1,158,042 RAC: 0
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Just a side note ... data compression works on the principle of location repeating groups. In loss-less compression each group of repeating bits is essentially given a number, the repeating pattern, and a count. As more of the data is processed the already assigned patterns can be used over and over again. So, a string of "kkkkkkkkkkkkkk" can be represented by: 1, "k" in the look-up; and is saved in the actual data portion as: 1, "n" with "n" being the repeat count. The next time we have "kkkkk" it can be represented by the same 1,"k", but with "m" as the repeat count in the data portion. "Lossy" compression looks for minor changes in a series "kkkkkkkkkkkLLkkkkkkk" and will throw away the "LL" as the pattern is mostly about "k" and not about "L". Because it can compress more by eliminating the need to do: 1, n; 2, m, 1, o and replacing it with 1, n' only. "Lossy" compression obviously cannot be used for things like programs. Loss-less compression usually cannot get higher compression ratios than 2:1; lossy compression can achieve very high rates if you don't care about the subsequent loss of detail. NOW, encryped data is going to look like, for all intents and purposes, like random characters. High degree of randomness, low incidence of repeating patterns, means little to no compressibility as there is nothing to work with. The same thing goes for already compressed information. In fact, re-compressing a compressed file can result in a larger output than if you just left it alone. This is why compression tools will mearly insert some files into an archive as the file seems to grow under compression. ID: 123909 · |
Jord  Send message Joined: 9 Jun 99 Posts: 15157 Credit: 4,362,181 RAC: 6 
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I'm now putting a couple of people more on ignore, since the only way they can post is by using the "reply to this post" option, then ignoring the whole quoted text and replying underneath it with 1 to 4 lines. I'm sure I won't miss much. Although, once more for those of you: Ever heard using a combination of the mouse, scroll button and a delete button when you reply to a post with that whole post directly above/underneath said post? Why don't you just delete the extra text, answer to the part you are answering to, since the reply to post option will link to the old post anyway. It takes an extra 3 seconds of your time. But leaves most of us (those who aren't ignoring you yet) with a lot less scrolling! Especially since the person who wrote the post just above your answer usually remembers what he or she wrote 30 seconds to an hour ago, so it's just annoying that you just post the whole thing again! With 5 lines of text it may not be annoying, but 30 to 45 lines of text and your one to five line answer underneath it? ID: 123619 · |
Fuzzy Hollynoodles  Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 9659 Credit: 251,998 RAC: 0 |
I'm for one is dead tired to have to take in consideration these dial up users and those who surf by a mobile phone..... @Chrystallize. I don't think it's for you to decide whether people should surf on which connection or not! Who do you think you are??? To judge from your avatar, you are a surly, sulky, sore, pouting, annoying, not very attractive person! It doesn't become you! "I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me 
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John McLeod VII Send message Joined: 15 Jul 99 Posts: 24806 Credit: 790,712 RAC: 0
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Some of us are lucky enough to have broadband. Some of us are in places where broadband is not available, some of us simply cannot afford broadband. Some users would like to have even the speed of 56K dialup. Almost everyone wants a better connection than they have. BOINC WIKI ID: 121985 · |
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Heffed Send message Joined: 19 Mar 02 Posts: 1856 Credit: 40,736 RAC: 0
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I'm for one is dead tired to have to take in consideration these dial up users and those who surf by a mobile phone. What an insensitive pr*ck... :( Some people simply don't have the option of broadband. Nothing to do with cheapness. I would love to have broadband, but being on disability, I can barely manage to pay for dial up. Hmmm.... Broadband, or food/boarding... Not much of a decision there. I must be cheap because I pick sustainance and a roof over my head... If you want to send me a check every month, I'd be glad to switch. ;) Until then, shut the h*ll up! ID: 121845 · |
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Celtic Wolf Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 3278 Credit: 595,676 RAC: 0
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CW, you mean that I can't complete financial transactions online that require the standard 128 encryption? You can do it, but if that page locks your browser it will be as slow as a dial-up. Unless you want to pay them $90.00 a month. You can forget things like VPN with IPSEC/ISAKMP? VoIP though not encrypted won't work because the inter-packet latency is well about 200MS. So services like Vontage will not work. If you are an on-line gamer you will have the same problem. Their compression and encryption scheme does work well. It just doesn't know what to do with packets that are already encrypted. The best I can figure it knows the packet is encrypted and will not compress it. I suspect that they load a different OS on the transceiver if you pay the extra $30.00 per month so VPN will work. One more thing the techo-weinies at DirectWay do NOT have a clue what port forwarding is. The Transceiver uses NAT. If you have an application that requires a specific port to be forwarded to you intact.. NOPE NOT gonna happen. You call their customer service and all you get is "we don't block ports".. For instance I am a Ham Radio Operator. I have EchoLink installed on my laptop. I can not use it at my NC home because it requires the Servers out in the real world to be able to access a specific port on my laptop. BitTorrent has a similar problem. I'd rather speak my mind because it hurts too much to bite my tongue. American Spirit BBQ Proudly Serving those that courageously defend freedom. ID: 121804 · |
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John McLeod VII Send message Joined: 15 Jul 99 Posts: 24806 Credit: 790,712 RAC: 0
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CW, you mean that I can't complete financial transactions online that require the standard 128 encryption? You can complete the transactions that require encryption online with this service, but it is likely to be slower than with a modem. Encrypted data compress about as well as a zip file compresses (not well at all). BOINC WIKI ID: 121802 · |
Astro  Send message Joined: 16 Apr 02 Posts: 8026 Credit: 600,015 RAC: 0 |
CW, you mean that I can't complete financial transactions online that require the standard 128 encryption? ID: 121789 · |
mlcudd  Send message Joined: 11 Apr 03 Posts: 782 Credit: 63,647 RAC: 0
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[quote] I am voting Obsolete. DirectWay is a great service if you don't need to use VPN, VoIP, any type of Encryption, or you aren't a big gamer. If you are either forget it. The inter-packet latency on the Satellite is extremely high. They gain the hi-speed by using a proprietary compression protocol. If you are doing anything with encrypted packets you are better off on a dial-up. If you do not have a clear shot to the southern sky forget it. It HAS to be locked on target. DirectTV can be off by a degree or two. DirectWay can NOT. The dish in a concrete bucket will not cut it. Furthermore most installers will not install the DirectWay dish on your home. They will only plant it firmly into the ground. So Tony, add another $200 to that installation cost, because the ground install is not "standard".. **You are absolutely right. they would not install for me because I was in an apartment. So I had to install myself. The long process of setting a pole in concret, keeping it level while it dries, and then setting the dish. I have it in 100 pounds of concrete, and the last big storm we had moved the dish 5 feet from the side of my building. I am quite frequently resetting the position with a compass. At least I maintain a 91 strength signal. And now that you mention how Directway gets it's speed, it is kinda useless. As for Time warner and Comcast. They are not offering services to this area for anoth year at least so the people at Adelphi say. There is to much work to do on the service. The people that already have Adelphia in this area, are making there payments to a WSS Communications as of right now. Rocky www.boincsynergy.com   ID: 121783 · |
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Celtic Wolf Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 3278 Credit: 595,676 RAC: 0
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I am voting Obsolete. DirectWay is a great service if you don't need to use VPN, VoIP, any type of Encryption, or you aren't a big gamer. If you are either forget it. The inter-packet latency on the Satellite is extremely high. They gain the hi-speed by using a proprietary compression protocol. If you are doing anything with encrypted packets you are better off on a dial-up. If you do not have a clear shot to the southern sky forget it. It HAS to be locked on target. DirectTV can be off by a degree or two. DirectWay can NOT. The dish in a concrete bucket will not cut it. Furthermore most installers will not install the DirectWay dish on your home. They will only plant it firmly into the ground. So Tony, add another $200 to that installation cost, because the ground install is not "standard".. I'd rather speak my mind because it hurts too much to bite my tongue. American Spirit BBQ Proudly Serving those that courageously defend freedom. ID: 121740 · |
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Celtic Wolf Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 3278 Credit: 595,676 RAC: 0
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The local Cable company is Adelphia, and if anyone has been watching the news, they are looking for someone to buy them out of Bankruptcy because of Fraud..So where is their service. So until I find another place to live, I am stuck with dial up. Rocky.. They have been purchased by a 50/50 deal with Comcast and Time-Warner. Now which one you end up with will depend on who has a presence near Adelphia Area. If both exist then the Adelphia area is supposed to be divided down the middle. I'd rather speak my mind because it hurts too much to bite my tongue. American Spirit BBQ Proudly Serving those that courageously defend freedom. ID: 121738 · |
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mlcudd Send message Joined: 11 Apr 03 Posts: 782 Credit: 63,647 RAC: 0
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I live in the boonies in South Carolina or the outskirts of a city in Michigan. In SC there is NO cable, and too far for DSL. Direcway costs $600 for dish/modem and $60 per month OR $99/month with 15 month contract. Tony, We need to give it about 10 years, then it will either be affordable for us, or obselete. Respectfully, Rocky www.boincsynergy.com ID: 121725 · |
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