> You're probably thinking of the 520ST which was
> 68000-based and the 5200 which was a stripped-down 800XL video

Yes, I'm probably thinking about the 520ST, not 512 (binary is in my head). Was it out around 1985? I remember having to choose between that and the Amiga 500 at the Post Exchange (I was air force on temporary assignment at an army base, so I was kinda isolated and bored), so I chose the Amiga. Did the 520ST have a built in MIDI?

I definitely remember the Atari 5200 video game system. I had one.

> ...Texas Instruments TI-99/4A...
> I own that too.

When they dropped to $50 apiece, I got one too. Didn't do much with it.

> I had a 286 for about a week. Then I got my Mac.

Only reason I had a 286 at all was my Dad thought I should learn to run Autocad, so he gave one to me.

> Damn, I feel old!

Join the club, dude.

[From waaaaay back in the thread...]
Only computers I saw or used in the 80s were the Timex/Sinclair ZX-80/81, the various Tandys, Atari 400/800/1200/512...
Atari 400, 800, 600XL, 800XL, 1200, 130XE, and 65XE. Collectively referred to as "400/800/XL/XE". You're probably thinking of the 520ST which was 68000-based and the 5200 which was a stripped-down 800XL video game console.

...Texas Instruments TI-99/4A...
I own that too.

...Amiga 500/1000/2000, Vic-20, C-64/128s, various 8086/8088/80286 PC clones...
I had a 286 for about a week. Then I got my Mac.

...and of course AppleII/IIE and spinoffs and the Macintosh line.

Damn, I feel old!

---

> I would be more affraid of the average person with a knife than a gun too. but
> because someone with a knife might be more willing to use it than a person
> with a gun. then again that is only if the welder actually thinks twice. What
> would you bet you life on?

According to surveys, that doesn't seem to be the case. Especially where women are concerned, most don't want to be close enough to use a knife. A gun is much easier, as there can be a certain psychological detachment, at least beforehand. In the mind's eye, the gun is much "neater", despite the mess it can make in reality.

As I've stated elsewhere, from personal experience I found it fairly easy to evade getting stabbed, at least seriously. In the same situations, had my opponent had a gun, things could have been far, far worse. Fortunately for me, the one time an incident involved a gun, I'm the one who had it.

> When I had to transfer files to the graphic designer for a report I worked on
> a few years ago, I ended up having to burn the files onto CD just in case it
> was all the computer security that was worsening the problem (it wasn't). It
> was so bad, that even though we both had Word, their Mac didn't recognise my
> PC Word file as a Word document! So they basically had to get everything in
> rtf format, and even then retype some of the text. From memory, one of the
> packages they were using back then was something called Quark (?).
>

These problems are solved now. And I'm sure [url=http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=13745#98015]OS X.4<a> will have even more features!

And I know that my friends with at least OS X.3 have no problems at all with reading any of my Office files! I worked with OS X.3 for a while and I was amazed by it!

The only thing that bothered me was that I had a Mac keyboard! I spent a couple of hours trying to find the @ key! ;-) D'oh!!!!

---

"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

> And in the spirit of famous last words, here are some apparently real ones:
>
------------------
"Ask her to wait a moment - I am almost done."

- Carl Friedrich Gauss (1777-1855), while working, when informed that his wife is dying
------------------------------------------------
.
.
"I don't feel good."

- The last words of Luther Burbank (1849-1926)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."

- last words of Pancho Villa (1877-1923)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Now, now my good man, this is no time for making enemies."

- Voltaire (1694-1778) on his deathbed in response to a priest asking that he renounce Satan.
.
.

---

I would be more affraid of the average person with a knife than a gun too. but because someone with a knife might be more willing to use it than a person with a gun. then again that is only if the welder actually thinks twice. What would you bet you life on?

Major . Gen. John Sedgwick
STATUS: killed.
Date:May 9 1864
Location: Battle of Spotsyvania
Sniper: Sgt. Grace, 4th Georgia Infantry
Type Weapon: British Whitworth target rifle. ( they didn't recongnize "sniper rifle" then)
Distance: 800 yards
Effect: In addition to providing ironic last words("why they couldn't jit an elephant at that dist.."), Sedgewick's untimely death delayed an imminent Union attack, contributeing to Gen. Robert E. Lee's victory at Spotsylvania.
He was also on horse back at the time to lead his troops into battle when he spoke those words to his next in command.
at that time in history no one had made a shot of that distance.

Okay, now you mention you have multiple books on snipers, I am a little bit concerned. :)
Please don't be concerned. I grew up in a military family and here in the states a few but not all of us charish our right to own guns and to read the history of them may help us not to repeat that history.

"Guns, Germs and Steel",
> and I see the author has another book out this year.

Read that book meself, .....the whole tie in to grain/cereal farming was fascinating...

---

> As for sniping, ....sure it takes a weapon which will shoot reliably well, but
> some people can shoot the lights out and some can't...

Somebody (police officer-related, was it a previous post on this board??) said that he would rather have someone try to shoot him than stab him, as he knew that the knife would always hit the target.

> (I'm going to have to look up your book, hadn't heard of it, at all,
> before...)

Quite a long book. I find myself reading more and more non-fiction these days. One of my favourite books from last year was "Guns, Germs and Steel", and I see the author has another book out this year.

@at magenta,

the cannoneers of that day were better marksmen with their cannon than today's modern artillerymen with their lazers.....

As for sniping, ....sure it takes a weapon which will shoot reliably well, but some people can shoot the lights out and some can't...

(I'm going to have to look up your book, hadn't heard of it, at all, before...)

---

> "They couldn't hit an elephant from this dist…" (The last words of Union
> General John Sedgwick, at the Battle of Spotsylvania in 1864.)
>
>
> That one is a confirmed kill. it is in about ever book on snipers that I have
> read.
> The study of Sniper craft isn't new it was just given up or ambolished for
> years thoughout history for being "unfair" tactics. Now most every country is
> trained in it. and openly accknowledges it.

Okay, now you mention you have multiple books on snipers, I am a little bit concerned. :)

I suppose I assumed he was hit by accident. I thought the weapons back then were notorious for their inability to hit a target from any reasonably large distance.

> No, got a link?

And for the subsequent post to Paul's as well:
http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/

It is horrible reading, Thomas Watson must have known what the Hollerith machines and punch cards were being used for - how could he not? Basically in a nutshell, the book argues that it was the IBM technology that enabled the Final Solution to be implemented, i.e. to undertake and analyse the census information that showed where all the unfit people lived.

It's pretty much in chronological order, although in trying to deal with large issues, some of the chapters repeat part of the content of other chapters. His evidence for documents, etc, are all substantiated in endnotes.

As far as I know, the author (Edwin Black) has not been sued by IBM, and the book was published in 2001 - long ago enough for a court case to start anyways.

"They couldn't hit an elephant from this dist…" (The last words of Union General John Sedgwick, at the Battle of Spotsylvania in 1864.)


That one is a confirmed kill. it is in about ever book on snipers that I have read.
The study of Sniper craft isn't new it was just given up or ambolished for years thoughout history for being "unfair" tactics. Now most every country is trained in it. and openly accknowledges it.

And in the spirit of famous last words, here are some apparently real ones:

"They couldn't hit an elephant from this dist…" (The last words of Union General John Sedgwick, at the Battle of Spotsylvania in 1864.)

That's my favourite of them all. :)

>BTW have you read the book "IBM and the Holocaust"?
I haven't read it yet. but if you can read a book by it's cover I would have to ask if they revised it with a chapter in it called "The Grid"
When 1st hearing of the grid I was stoked. felt like SETI had started a fire under there A__. but from Maximum PC mag a few months ago I'm not that enlightened by it.
. Tell me more about the book though before I assume to much:-)

> BTW have you read the book "IBM and the Holocaust"? I am awaiting to hear
> that IBM is being forced (at minimum) to give an apology, at best to apologist
> and to give a huge payout to those families directly affected.


No, got a link?

---

"This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings to be seriously
considered as a means of communication. The device is inherently
of no value to us."
--Western Union internal memo, 1876.

"Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons."
--Popular Mechanics, forecasting the relentless march of
science, 1949

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
--Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943

"640K ought to be enough for anybody."
-- Bill Gates, 1981

"I have traveled the length and breadth of this country and talked
with the best people, and I can assure you that data processing is
a fad that won't last out the year."
--The editor in charge of business books for Prentice Hall,
1957

"But what... is it good for?"
--Engineer at the Advanced Computing Systems Division of IBM,
1968, commenting on the microchip.

"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
--Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital
Equipment Corp., 1977

"The wireless music box has no imaginable commercial value. Who
would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?"
--David Sarnoff's associates in response to his urgings for
investment in the radio in the 1920s.

"The concept is interesting and well-formed, but in order to earn
better than a 'C,' the idea must be feasible."
--A Yale University management professor in response to Fred
Smith's paper proposing reliable overnight delivery service.
(Smith went on to found Federal Express Corp.)

"Who the hell wants to hear actors talk?"
--H.M. Warner, Warner Brothers, 1927.

"I'm just glad it'll be Clark Gable who's falling on his face and
not Gary Cooper."
--Gary Cooper on his decision not to take the leading role in
"Gone With The Wind."

"We don't like their sound, and guitar music is on the way out."
--Decca Recording Co. rejecting the Beatles, 1962.

"Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible."
--Lord Kelvin, president, Royal Society, 1895.

"So we went to Atari and said, 'Hey, we've got this amazing thing,
even built with some of your parts, and what do you think about
funding us? Or we'll give it to you. We just want to do it. Pay
our salary, we'll come work for you.' And they said, 'No.' So
then we went to Hewlett-Packard, and they said, 'Hey, we don't
need you. You haven't got through college yet.'"
--Apple Computer Inc. founder Steve Jobs on attempts to get
Atari and H-P interested in his and Steve Wozniak's personal
computer.

"Professor Goddard does not know the relation between action and
reaction and the need to have something better than a vacuum
against which to react. He seems to lack the basic knowledge
ladled out daily in high schools."
--1921 New York Times editorial about Robert Goddard's
revolutionary rocket work.

"Drill for oil? You mean drill into the ground to try and find oil?
You're crazy."
--Drillers who Edwin L. Drake tried to enlist to his project
to drill for oil in 1859.

"Airplanes are interesting toys but of no military value."
--Marechal Ferdinand Foch, Professor of Strategy, Ecole
Superieure de Guerre.

"Louis Pasteur's theory of germs is ridiculous fiction".
--Pierre Pachet, Professor of Physiology at Toulouse, 1872

"Everything that can be invented has been invented."
--Charles H. Duell, Commissioner, U.S. Office of Patents,
1899.

When asked by Arthur C. Clark to present a paper on the metorological uses of satelilles(weather satelites controlled by computers) the response was,".. they would be of little value". Dr. Harry Waxler, cheif of research of the U.S. Weather Bureau, 1954

> "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
>
> - Thomas Watson (1874-1956), Chairman of IBM, 1943
[...]
> "There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
> - Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977

Thanks, I had the two confused.

BTW have you read the book "IBM and the Holocaust"? I am awaiting to hear that IBM is being forced (at minimum) to give an apology, at best to apologist and to give a huge payout to those families directly affected.

Sometimes history makes me ashamed to be a scientist/social scientist.

.
.
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."

- Thomas Watson (1874-1956), Chairman of IBM, 1943
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."

- Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977

---