PLEASE don't MIS-USE Optimized apps on Beta

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Profile Keith T.
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Message 16058 - Posted: 12 Mar 2007, 13:35:59 UTC

Hi, Please correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that we are not supposed to use optimized applications on the Beta WUs.

I use the Chicken / KWSN 2.2B apps on SETI main, but not on beta.

It has come to my attention that a user has a farm of 18 or 20 hosts, using Chicken 2.2 on Beta.

Should I post the ID here? If you want to find it, you can click on a few of my results.

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Message 16060 - Posted: 12 Mar 2007, 13:53:11 UTC

The Chicken soup works on Beta? Good news!!!!
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Message 16063 - Posted: 12 Mar 2007, 14:00:10 UTC
Last modified: 12 Mar 2007, 14:04:17 UTC

It's not considered good form to use optimized apps here, but it might just be one of chicken's helpers making sure the opt. app. is compatible with the new data.
Questions? Answers are in the BOINC Wiki.

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Message 16065 - Posted: 12 Mar 2007, 14:05:14 UTC

....ooooohhhh, yes Aurora, you are right. Sorry i have forgotten this is a Beta projekt. We are here for testing, not for the credits.

Sorry!!!!!!
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Message 16071 - Posted: 12 Mar 2007, 14:29:02 UTC

There is also the Joseph Segur et. al. "optimized" app. which is the only one that currently runs on WIN-9x (95, 98, 98SE, and ME) and is free of the timer bug.

So, in those cases if someone wants to run BETA, they have no choice.
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Message 16074 - Posted: 12 Mar 2007, 14:43:39 UTC

Morning

Joe's special version for the Win9.xx problems is fine that code will eventually get into the main line code... He also has a version that is being tested to resolve a few issues with Multicores... He is a Volunteer Developer besides a Helper with Chicken Soup...

I would say that if You watch Joes Thread, when there is an upgrade the App he will post a link for those that would like to test it... Anything that Joes Posts here should end up in some form in the Mainline Application.

So other than the next version/generation of Chicken Soup that would need to potentially happen as Multibeam gets ready to move to Main...

There is No Reason to run an Optimized App from Main...

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Message 16106 - Posted: 13 Mar 2007, 0:48:16 UTC - in response to Message 16058.  
Last modified: 13 Mar 2007, 0:53:32 UTC

It has come to my attention that a user has a farm of 18 or 20 hosts, using Chicken 2.2 on Beta.

If you mean the farm, where e.g. this machine resides - yes, you are right, this is not using Joe's app because of Win9x, or optimized beta, but plain optimized for mainstream Seti :-(

(According to the owner's only post on the lunatics.at site, I assume (s)he was not patient enough to wait for the (optimized) 5.17 S@H client.)

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Message 16115 - Posted: 13 Mar 2007, 2:34:31 UTC - in response to Message 16106.  
Last modified: 13 Mar 2007, 3:15:58 UTC

Peter

Many have acknowledged, and backed off... Eric and I do not mind testing before it gets released into Seti Main... It would appear the person is only in this for the Credit... We are here to make sure it "works" that people can get credit... Many here have helped to identify things that would have caused a bit of a mess in Seti Main... Everyones Efforts are appreciated!

I Look back and am not sure how I got elevated to "Offical Middleman"... If I google for the position it comes up empty... The job comes with no pay, long hours and some Users will Abuse You...
Another unposted Position that could be open is Donations Coorindnator...
Another unfunded open position would be PR Representative...
If anyone has the time wants to Apply for the unfunded/unposted postitions, I will forward Resumes... I certainly know that "WE Need Help!"

I Do Know that Many Here have Helped to accomplish Many Things... This on many levels that are Public in the Beta Forums... Here Everyones goals is to Move Seti Ahead! We suffer for the Greater Good... As I think and remember there are many here that have worked through many things... People that can brag in Seti Main are riding in the Air Behind "Our" wings...

So as far as "CElliot" is concerned who according to the profile is a Ph D Candidate... In their impatience may have missed something Important! I have many friends that have the silly letters after their names and they still retain "Common Sense." I guess that it becomes we are here to fix Problems! That is Job #1!

Pappa


It has come to my attention that a user has a farm of 18 or 20 hosts, using Chicken 2.2 on Beta.

If you mean the farm, where e.g. this machine resides - yes, you are right, this is not using Joe's app because of Win9x, or optimized beta, but plain optimized for mainstream Seti :-(

(According to the owner's only post on the lunatics.at site, I assume (s)he was not patient enough to wait for the (optimized) 5.17 S@H client.)

Peter


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Message 16127 - Posted: 13 Mar 2007, 4:58:21 UTC

Hi Guys,

I'm sorry to say, but 18 machines running the optimized app is pushing a little the "test", and the previous posts seems to confirm that. Of this user's 19 computers, only one is running the stock app (he/she probably forgot to upgrade it :) ), and not only that, he/she is still using the "old" version 2.2, which could make validation harder, specially considering the reduced quorum in Beta.

Long ago I remember reading some post stating that Beta results are also included in the Master Science DB. If this is really so, could the combination of the RFI present in the Multibeam data and the use of the version 2.2 render the data unusable?

Since the user is crunching for both Main and Beta and some of the hosts are using older versions of BOINC (5.4.x), this could be another side-effect of that problem where BOINC used to get confused with apps with the same name in different projects, but he/she has hosts using 5.8.15.

The point is, unless is some specific Beta build (like Joe's version) I really don't see the point. We're here to shake out the bugs in the science app. If we replace it with something else what's the use?

Regards,
Wander

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Message 16157 - Posted: 13 Mar 2007, 15:12:10 UTC - in response to Message 16115.  

[snip]


I Look back and am not sure how I got elevated to "Offical Middleman"... If I google for the position it comes up empty... The job comes with no pay, long hours and some Users will Abuse You...
Another unposted Position that could be open is Donations Coorindnator...
Another unfunded open position would be PR Representative...
If anyone has the time wants to Apply for the unfunded/unposted postitions, I will forward Resumes... I certainly know that "WE Need Help!"


Pappa

I thought I saw your picture in th Wiki next to "official Middleman" - LOL ;-) Seriously, I know I greatly appreciate all your efforts at coordination with the staff and I hope the other people here recognize all your hard behind the scenes work.

You deserve at least a couple of atta-boys - just remember it takes 10 atta-boys to get rid of one OH CRAP! (sanitized for all ;-)
!!Stupidity should be PAINFUL!!
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Message 16158 - Posted: 13 Mar 2007, 15:50:52 UTC - in response to Message 16115.  

So as far as "CElliot" is concerned who according to the profile is a Ph D Candidate... In their impatience may have missed something Important! I have many friends that have the silly letters after their names and they still retain "Common Sense." I guess that it becomes we are here to fix Problems! That is Job #1!

Pappa


I asked the person concerned a few days ago over on the main site why he was using this app and not surprisingly didn't get an answer.....

Thread in question


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Message 16170 - Posted: 14 Mar 2007, 0:44:11 UTC

I've noticed that "C Elliott" has tried to stop using the optimized apps on beta. Is it really that difficult to switch from using an optimized app?
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Message 16172 - Posted: 14 Mar 2007, 1:01:44 UTC - in response to Message 16170.  

I've noticed that "C Elliott" has tried to stop using the optimized apps on beta. Is it really that difficult to switch from using an optimized app?

Click the project then click reset. BOINC will then download the stock app.
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Message 16173 - Posted: 14 Mar 2007, 1:01:54 UTC - in response to Message 16170.  

First, You would want to make sure that you ran work down to zero... That means if you have multiple machines it get to be a large pain in parts of your body that are not generally mentioned.

Then to be sure you would need to delete files in the project folder or disconnect and then reconnect to the project... Still more pain is parts of the body...

I've noticed that "C Elliott" has tried to stop using the optimized apps on beta. Is it really that difficult to switch from using an optimized app?


All that said, if there is an issue with specialized or optimized Applications, the User is not in a Set IT and Forget it Mode... YOU have to take time to manage it!

Without saying too much, between what Joe has found and changes to the BOINC Core that is the reason we are not doing 5.18... This does not mention a basic "faster" Seti Application needs to be in place as MultiBeam moves to Seti Main...



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Message 16210 - Posted: 14 Mar 2007, 13:04:46 UTC - in response to Message 16173.  
Last modified: 14 Mar 2007, 13:06:06 UTC

First, You would want to make sure that you ran work down to zero... That means if you have multiple machines it get to be a large pain in parts of your body that are not generally mentioned.

Sorry, I’m not particularly sympathetic about such pains. It’s been made quite clear than users of optimized apps take on responsibility for maintaining the correct version. If these people had the time to install it, surely they also have the time to uninstall it.

And anyway, I should think that in general beta-testers are expected to be in a position to monitor their systems quite closely, and I don’t see any reason this project would be an exception. Users who aren’t in a position to do so, to report problems that may not be evident from the results, for example, can’t be of much help.

Then to be sure you would need to delete files in the project folder or disconnect and then reconnect to the project... Still more pain is parts of the body...

Why should one have to “disconnect” (I presume you mean detach)? Once the app_info file is removed BOINC should download the standard Beta app next time it asks for work.

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Message 16327 - Posted: 16 Mar 2007, 11:17:31 UTC

CElliot is worried about quota restrictions but still doesn't find time to answer a simple question about his use of optimised applications on Beta even when he's been pointed to this thread......

Some people.....I guess have their own reasons and justifications for volunteering their precious time and resources........

Thread in question
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Message 16651 - Posted: 20 Mar 2007, 13:04:48 UTC
Last modified: 20 Mar 2007, 13:05:24 UTC

I have been recently paired with the CElliot host using an optimized app on a single core machine and typically have lost 10% on each WU. Not a big deal here in BETA, but when this goes live in main I'm sure there will be much howling involved on the boards (especially with a quorum of 2 and the credits being granted to the lower of the quorum returns - even if the higher is listed as the canonical result).

Too bad not everyone is here for code development and verification :-(
!!Stupidity should be PAINFUL!!
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Message 17278 - Posted: 28 Mar 2007, 22:38:29 UTC
Last modified: 28 Mar 2007, 22:38:57 UTC

Astropulse is here! If you use an optimized app you'll be left out in the cold!
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Message 17291 - Posted: 28 Mar 2007, 23:12:46 UTC - in response to Message 17278.  

Astropulse is here! If you use an optimized app you'll be left out in the cold!


But I don't and I haven't got one yet!!!



[b]"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me[/b]

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Message 18342 - Posted: 5 Apr 2007, 14:35:52 UTC

I know we need to test everything, but 4.x apps do cause credit confusion. I though when a quorum of 2 was needed, and the numbers were different, it averaged them, but this is not what happens, the lowest number is taken. So 2 of us crunched with a 5.x and got about the same credit, but the 4.x one got in as number 2, so the lower credit was granted for all 3.

What happened to averaging? I am not complaining, just curious on what differences are here, and if people should be thinking about going off the 4.x?


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