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Message 33390 - Posted: 16 May 2008, 16:31:02 UTC

Here will be the joint collection of information that you feel should be available as AP moves to Seti Main

If there is something you see please start the conversation.




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Message 33391 - Posted: 16 May 2008, 17:01:35 UTC - in response to Message 33390.  

Here will be the joint collection of information that you feel should be available as AP moves to Seti Main

If there is something you see please start the conversation.





Not sure if you want detailed answers, or some topic headings.

Run Times.

Minimum CPU requirement.

Minimum RAM.

Mac application.

DCF.

LTD.

Trickles.

This message by Andy Winterknight covers a lot of useful stuff.

I know that a lot of people are reluctant to edit client_state.xml, and I'm not sure that it is a good idea for SETI main. Also use of cc_config.xml is fairly advanced for a lot of people.

You need to try to work to a readership with many different skill and experience levels, in many countries around the world, a lot of whom do not speak English as their native language.

Keith.
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Message 33392 - Posted: 16 May 2008, 17:28:26 UTC

I would also add to Keith's list possible minimum core client.
A computer program will always do what you tell it to do, but rarely what you want it to do.
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Message 33393 - Posted: 16 May 2008, 17:47:19 UTC - in response to Message 33391.  

Keith et al

Actually you presented a good starting outline. From "Feelings" I get we are about 6-8 weeks from seeing AP in Seti Main.



Not sure if you want detailed answers, or some topic headings.

Run Times.

Minimum CPU requirement.

Minimum RAM.

Mac application.

DCF.

LTD.

Trickles. This has been presented to Eric. he is checking to see if it is available

This message by Andy Winterknight covers a lot of useful stuff.

I know that a lot of people are reluctant to edit client_state.xml, and I'm not sure that it is a good idea for SETI main. Also use of cc_config.xml is fairly advanced for a lot of people.

You need to try to work to a readership with many different skill and experience levels, in many countries around the world, a lot of whom do not speak English as their native language.

Keith.


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Message 33395 - Posted: 17 May 2008, 0:34:41 UTC - in response to Message 33390.  

Here will be the joint collection of information that you feel should be available as AP moves to Seti Main
If there is something you see please start the conversation.

I see something right here. How is AP going to be run at SETI when they are two different applications? SETI main should be for SETI only. It isn't WCG.
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Message 33402 - Posted: 17 May 2008, 3:25:10 UTC - in response to Message 33395.  

How is AP going to be run at SETI when they are two different applications? SETI main should be for SETI only. It isn't WCG.

Other projects have more than one app; SiMaP, for example, has simap and hmmer. AIUI tasks come tagged with the app that’s supposed to run them, so in the normal course of affairs BOINC will check the name & version, and automatically download the additional executable(s) &c. if & when required. I’m not sure what the implications are for users of the anonymous-platform mechanism, but they’ll probably have to download the (stock or other) AP app manually and add corresponding entries to their app_info.xml files—or forgo AP work in favour of Multibeam. At any rate, as long as the app names are distinct BOINC will keep them straight, and there should be no need for stock users to intervene in any way in order to take on whatever work is offered to them.
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Message 33404 - Posted: 17 May 2008, 3:44:41 UTC

I just posted a small update to Astropulse Status...


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Message 33407 - Posted: 17 May 2008, 7:35:52 UTC - in response to Message 33402.  

But if moved to the main site that forum is under a different Admin, beyond Eric's control (allegedly). Not a good idea to be mixing different projects with different managers given the current circumstances.
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Message 33409 - Posted: 17 May 2008, 11:32:37 UTC

One thing I thought of, probably a How To for those using the optimized apps, to modify the app_info.xml file so that they can get AP WU's while crunching the enhanced WU's, if they so choose. I hope that made sense.

Otherwise, I can't think of anything else. Keith T has a good list as is.
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Message 33411 - Posted: 17 May 2008, 12:26:11 UTC
Last modified: 17 May 2008, 12:33:59 UTC

Some sort of extremely prominent DON'T PANIC message for people who receive their first AstroPulse unit and notice that it will take an order of magnitude longer to crunch.

EDIT: And Misfit has a point. Although 99.999% of people over at SETI@home want/can't wait to crunch Astropulse there will be those who will complain (particularly among those who don't watch the boards). Witness the recent fuss over at WCG because they opted everyone in to the latest project (the rice one).
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Message 33414 - Posted: 17 May 2008, 14:56:43 UTC - in response to Message 33395.  
Last modified: 17 May 2008, 14:58:09 UTC

I see something right here. How is AP going to be run at SETI when they are two different applications? SETI main should be for SETI only. It isn't WCG.

Astropulse has a natural place on SETI@home, since both SETI Enhanced and Astropulse is SETI@home-applications looking for signals from ExtraTerrestrial (ET) Civilizations. While SETI Enhanced looks for Narrow-bandwidth ET-signals, Astropulse will look for Wide-bandwidth ET-signals.

Just like SETI Enhanced picks-up other signals than ET-signals, example Radars and other man-made signals, Astropulse will also detect other signals like Pulsars and Black holes. Since the probability of finding ET-signals is so low, the detection of these by-products of the SETI-search can give some useful Scientific results in other fields, while SETI still is at "ET not yet found".


You can look on it as both SETI Enhanced and Astropulse searches for a Gold-needle (ET) in a hay-stack. During the search for a Gold-needle, Astropulse ocassionally finds a Silver-needle (Pulsar or black hole), and instead of just throwing-away these Silver-needles as "not Gold" (not ET), the Silver-needles is kept and used for other things (non-ET-related).


See Future Plans for more info about Astropulse.
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Message 33415 - Posted: 17 May 2008, 16:01:31 UTC
Last modified: 17 May 2008, 23:21:03 UTC

What almost strikes me funny, would be one of those bragging about how fast my V8 is gets 8 Astropulse using the existing 4.30 App... Scary!

It is frightening... Thus trickles is/are being looked at...

To answer for those who are running Optimized MB we can setup to insure that the ap_info.xml is not broken out of the box but have two to test

I will be thinking about the PR campaign. Matt has been hinting in the Tech News..
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Message 33416 - Posted: 17 May 2008, 23:26:25 UTC - in response to Message 33414.  

Ingleside

Actually, this is very eloquently stated.

Astropulse has a natural place on SETI@home, since both SETI Enhanced and Astropulse is SETI@home-applications looking for signals from ExtraTerrestrial (ET) Civilizations. While SETI Enhanced looks for Narrow-bandwidth ET-signals, Astropulse will look for Wide-bandwidth ET-signals.

Just like SETI Enhanced picks-up other signals than ET-signals, example Radars and other man-made signals, Astropulse will also detect other signals like Pulsars and Black holes. Since the probability of finding ET-signals is so low, the detection of these by-products of the SETI-search can give some useful Scientific results in other fields, while SETI still is at "ET not yet found".

You can look on it as both SETI Enhanced and Astropulse searches for a Gold-needle (ET) in a hay-stack. During the search for a Gold-needle, Astropulse ocassionally finds a Silver-needle (Pulsar or black hole), and instead of just throwing-away these Silver-needles as "not Gold" (not ET), the Silver-needles is kept and used for other things (non-ET-related).


See Future Plans for more info about Astropulse.


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Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project
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Message 33418 - Posted: 18 May 2008, 7:00:36 UTC
Last modified: 18 May 2008, 7:05:22 UTC

First Draft,

In my world this is usually more a work of fiction rather than reality, so expect it to be riddled with errors, lies, untruths, typo's and bad grammar.

So feel absolutely free to criticize {to consider the merits and demerits of and judge accordingly}, replace errors and untruths, get rid of all typo's and grammatical errors. Please.

Astropulse

What is Astropulse

Astropulse has a natural place on SETI@home, since both SETI Enhanced and Astropulse is SETI@home-applications looking for signals from ExtraTerrestrial (ET) Civilizations. While SETI Enhanced looks for Narrow-bandwidth ET-signals, Astropulse will look for Wide-bandwidth ET-signals.

Just like SETI Enhanced picks-up other signals than ET-signals, example Radars and other man-made signals, Astropulse will also detect other signals like Pulsars and Black holes. Since the probability of finding ET-signals is so low, the detection of these by-products of the SETI-search can give some useful Scientific results in other fields, while SETI still is at "ET not yet found".

You can look on it as both SETI Enhanced and Astropulse searches for a Gold-needle (ET) in a hay-stack. During the search for a Gold-needle, Astropulse ocassionally finds a Silver-needle (Pulsar or black hole), and instead of just throwing-away these Silver-needles as "not Gold" (not ET), the Silver-needles is kept and used for other things (non-ET-related). [source; Ingleside]

See also www.planetary.org SETI@home Listens to the Dying Gasps of Black Holes

Further information on the Astropulse Science, Algorithms and Program has been made available by Josh Von Korff at astropulse_info.html

How do I run Astropulse

For Windows, Linux and Macs.

If you are one of the majority that is attached to Seti@Home and uses the default application, then do nothing. When your computer asks for more tasks, if that task is an Astropulse task then the application and all its required files will be downloaded.

For those using an optimised application then the app_info.xml file will need replacing or modifying.

Insert sample app_info.xml file.

Minimum Requirements

Min CPU
30 days is 2,592,000secs, What percentage of this would regarded as min a computer could be expected to run? (original BOINC expectation was 10% but think we now aim higher) 50% of 40hr week would be 80 hrs but that is core2 @2.4GHz standard ????? as app is at moment (18/5/08)

Min RAM
My computer indicated 52MByte as Peak memory usage.

Disc Space

Any other minimums

Running Astropulse

The Astropulse application is straight out of the box, by this we mean it the first general release version and as yet had very little optimisation applied. So, there could be some bugs lurking that have not been found during testing.

Bug Reporting

The run times compared to Multibeam enhanced are long, but credits/time should be in line with those using the default enhanced MB application.
Trickles

The estimated Floating Point operations, are the best guesstimate available at this point in time. It is hoped that this means the initial completion time estimate will be fairly accurate. And subsequently the Task (Result) Duration Correction Factor (DCF) will not vary much.

Deadlines

The initial deadline for Astropulse tasks will be fairly tight at 30 days. This will be kept under review by Dr. Eric Korpela and the Seti team.

Long Term Debt

For those attached to more than one Project, due to the long processing times, you may run up a high Long Term Debt (LTD) on Seti. This can mean that Astropulse will need to run at High Priority (EDF or Panic mode) and then pay back time to the other project(s). And therefore not download any more Seti tasks until LTD is lowered. You may want to consider increasing Seti’s resource share if this bothers you.

Choosing not to run Astropulse

Will there be a Preferences button, or do we need app_info.xml file

Add all things I have missed


Andy
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Message 33426 - Posted: 18 May 2008, 22:57:48 UTC

While SETI Enhanced looks for Narrow-bandwidth ET-signals, Astropulse will look for Wide-bandwidth ET-signals.


SETI Enhanced looks at bandwidths of 0.0745, 0.149, 0.298, 0.596, 1.1921, 2.3842, 4.7684, 9.5367, 19.073, 38.147, 76.294, 152.59, 305.18, 610.35, and 1220.7 Hz.

AstroPulse looks at 76.294 Hz. bandwidth which is admittedly wide, but within the range covered by SETI Enhanced (and back to Classic).

The significant difference in AstroPulse is de-dispersion which will allow it to detect pulses (both single and trains) from much further away.
                                                                 Joe
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Message 33447 - Posted: 19 May 2008, 23:35:10 UTC - in response to Message 33418.  


Add all things I have missed


Run away host protection.

The current 100 Wu per day per core should be reduced to 10 Wu per day per core to have the same degree of protection.
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Message 33451 - Posted: 20 May 2008, 3:08:40 UTC - in response to Message 33447.  


Add all things I have missed


Run away host protection.

The current 100 Wu per day per core should be reduced to 10 Wu per day per core to have the same degree of protection.

AS Seti is going to be running enhanced MB and AP together then I would assume the limit would have to stay at 100/core/day.
But agree something needs to be done to limit downloads. And one of the reasons the Fpops estimate needs to be accurate.
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Message 33456 - Posted: 20 May 2008, 8:15:24 UTC

How about a system similar to Milkyway@home.

Their Initial download of 20 reguardless of host or connection times.

Then return a work unit.

Report a work unit.

Get next work unit.

This I think could/would possibly stop excessive work unit downloads on both MB and Astropulse. due to local preferences errors it's all too easy to put a full stop (point) in the wrong place. As i've found out in the past.
A computer program will always do what you tell it to do, but rarely what you want it to do.
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Message 33457 - Posted: 20 May 2008, 8:58:53 UTC
Last modified: 20 May 2008, 8:59:42 UTC

A minimum host RAC of 150 or 200 (or even 100), would prevent some of the problems.
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Message 33458 - Posted: 20 May 2008, 9:24:41 UTC - in response to Message 33457.  

A minimum host RAC of 150 or 200 (or even 100), would prevent some of the problems.

While also eliminating a lot of potential contributors.
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