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21) Message boards : Politics : The racial teachings of Rudolf Steiner. Founder of Anthroposophy and Waldorf education (Message 1564657)
Posted 1 hour ago by Profile JulieProject donor
So can you provide me proof, that he actually said 'white' people are the Übermensch?

Proof not needed.
From what I now have read he is a really EVIL person.
Thanks Sten Arne

Have you read Sten-Arne's posts or Steiner himself? Big difference...

No the critic of Steiner.
You do not have to read much to see Steiner standpoint.
Übermensch all over the Place.
Why are you so interested of Steiner?



I've read so many books of him, why did that idea NEVER cross my mind? And don't tell me now, Sten-Arne that I'm ridiculous in 'not noticing' it. I keep my standpoint AND my profile, period.
22) Message boards : Politics : The racial teachings of Rudolf Steiner. Founder of Anthroposophy and Waldorf education (Message 1564650)
Posted 1 hour ago by Profile JulieProject donor
The group of people that Steiner found least appealing was the native American Indians. Even though these had a certain age in human life, Steiner considered their case to be connected with “the forces that have a lot to do with human extinction.” 14

He described the Indians as “a degenerated human race”, 15 which was the reason why they had succumbed to such a degree.

14.Die Mission einzelner Volksseelen, p. 4:9.
15.Welt, Erde und Mensch, p. 6:16.



Can you provide me with a link? I want to read his words, not yours, np if it's in German.


You have the references, and you said that you have read and studied Steiner so much. Don't tell me that you haven't got those important books in your home, or the nearest library? Perhaps you haven't really studied Steiner...


I reckognize your words as the words of a critic, those are not his words, if only for the way you build your sentences.


Are you even remotely aware that you are digging yourself deeper and deeper into the ground?


Nope, you? I'm just saying what I see here, Mr. Critic, or should I say Mr. Absolutist?
23) Message boards : Politics : The racial teachings of Rudolf Steiner. Founder of Anthroposophy and Waldorf education (Message 1564649)
Posted 1 hour ago by Profile JulieProject donor
So can you provide me proof, that he actually said 'white' people are the Übermensch?

Proof not needed.
From what I now have read he is a really EVIL person.
Thanks Sten Arne



Have you read Sten-Arne's posts or Steiner himself? Big difference...
24) Message boards : Politics : The racial teachings of Rudolf Steiner. Founder of Anthroposophy and Waldorf education (Message 1564644)
Posted 1 hour ago by Profile JulieProject donor
The group of people that Steiner found least appealing was the native American Indians. Even though these had a certain age in human life, Steiner considered their case to be connected with “the forces that have a lot to do with human extinction.” 14

He described the Indians as “a degenerated human race”, 15 which was the reason why they had succumbed to such a degree.

14.Die Mission einzelner Volksseelen, p. 4:9.
15.Welt, Erde und Mensch, p. 6:16.



Can you provide me with a link? I want to read his words, not yours, np if it's in German.


You have the references, and you said that you have read and studied Steiner so much. Don't tell me that you haven't got those important books in your home, or the nearest library? Perhaps you haven't really studied Steiner...


I reckognize your words as the words of a critic, those are not his words, if only for the way you build your sentences.
25) Message boards : Politics : The racial teachings of Rudolf Steiner. Founder of Anthroposophy and Waldorf education (Message 1564642)
Posted 1 hour ago by Profile JulieProject donor
So can you provide me proof, that he actually said 'white' people are the Übermensch?


The “race” which Steiner described in positive terms was – not surprisingly – the white one. When listing the different “races”, he described how they were inflicted by “hardening” of different organs. The list ended with those people who “did not become hardened at all”. They were found in “those areas that comprise of today’s Europe and Asia.” 18

18.Welt, Erde und Mensch, p. 6:17

Elsewhere, he stated that “the most mature characteristica are found in the European area. It is simply (a natural) law.” 19

19.Die Mission einzelner Volksseelen, p. 4:9.


I think he might be right here...
26) Message boards : Politics : The racial teachings of Rudolf Steiner. Founder of Anthroposophy and Waldorf education (Message 1564637)
Posted 2 hours ago by Profile JulieProject donor
When reading this I feel sick.
The affinities with Nazi discourse are unmistakable. Wolfgang Treher makes a convincing case that Steiner's racial theories, especially the repeated scheme of a small minority evolving further while a large mass declines, bear striking similarities even in detail to Hitler's own theories. He concludes: "Concentration camps, slave labor and the murder of Jews constitute a praxis whose key is perhaps to be found in the 'theories' of Rudolf Steiner."[



Perhaps to be found in the theories of Steiners writings... All words of critics and their interpretation of Steiners words.
27) Message boards : Politics : The racial teachings of Rudolf Steiner. Founder of Anthroposophy and Waldorf education (Message 1564634)
Posted 2 hours ago by Profile JulieProject donor
The group of people that Steiner found least appealing was the native American Indians. Even though these had a certain age in human life, Steiner considered their case to be connected with “the forces that have a lot to do with human extinction.” 14

He described the Indians as “a degenerated human race”, 15 which was the reason why they had succumbed to such a degree.

14.Die Mission einzelner Volksseelen, p. 4:9.
15.Welt, Erde und Mensch, p. 6:16.



Can you provide me with a link? I want to read his words, not yours, np if it's in German.
28) Message boards : Politics : The racial teachings of Rudolf Steiner. Founder of Anthroposophy and Waldorf education (Message 1564629)
Posted 2 hours ago by Profile JulieProject donor
So can you provide me proof, that he actually said 'white' people are the Übermensch?
29) Message boards : Politics : The racial teachings of Rudolf Steiner. Founder of Anthroposophy and Waldorf education (Message 1564628)
Posted 2 hours ago by Profile JulieProject donor
Furthermore Steiner says, that there were “such people, that are degenerated because the nervous system hardened at a much too early stage and didn’t stay soft long enough – the last remnants of those are the Malayan race.”

Welt, Erde und Mensch, p. 6:16.



Maybe they were, he sure knew a lot!
30) Message boards : Politics : The racial teachings of Rudolf Steiner. Founder of Anthroposophy and Waldorf education (Message 1564622)
Posted 2 hours ago by Profile JulieProject donor
Steiner didn’t hesitate when it comes to judging separate Asian peoples. The huns were described as “the last remnants of old Atlantic peoples. They are deeply decadent, which shows in their decaying astral- and ether-bodies.”

Rudolf Steiner, Die Theosophie des Rosenkreuzers, 1907, p. 37.



Read that book, loved it. was a Rosicrucian myself (AMORC) for three years.
31) Message boards : Politics : The racial teachings of Rudolf Steiner. Founder of Anthroposophy and Waldorf education (Message 1564620)
Posted 2 hours ago by Profile JulieProject donor
According to Steiner’s teachings on soul travel, the same soul could assume different “races” in different lives. What race it would be depended on how you behaved in the previous life.


“A soul can be incarnated in any race, but if this soul doesn’t become evil, it doesn’t need to be reincarnated in a descending race, it will reincarnate later in a ascending race.”

From: 21.Vor dem Tore der Theosophie, p. 42.


Couldn't it be he gave a totally different meaning to the word 'race' than you assume?
32) Message boards : Politics : The racial teachings of Rudolf Steiner. Founder of Anthroposophy and Waldorf education (Message 1564617)
Posted 2 hours ago by Profile JulieProject donor
When non-European peoples proved to be successful, Steiner explained this by claiming that they had learned from Europeans:


“It is often claimed that the Japanese are going through an important development based on their character – this is an illusion. There is no development made from their own abilities. The reason they were victorious in the latest war was that they used warships and cannons invented by the European peoples, thereby using a foreign culture. It is no development if a people has taken what another people’s characteristics has produced – it has to develop based on its own nature. That is what counts!”

From: 20.Welt, Erde und Mensch, p. 10:13–14.


I really can't see any racism here, maybe a slight discord towards the Japanese...
33) Message boards : Politics : The racial teachings of Rudolf Steiner. Founder of Anthroposophy and Waldorf education (Message 1564611)
Posted 2 hours ago by Profile JulieProject donor
Rudolf Steiner:

“But the people that didn’t develop their id, that was too exposed to the influence of the sun, they were like plants: They produced far too much carbon under their skin – and became black. That is why the negroes are black.”

From: Rudolf Steiner, Geisteswissenschaftliche Menschenkunde, 1908–1909, s. 5:9.



With these words he referred to the sun and its UV rays, tanning our skin. What's racist about that? The longer one is exposed to the sun, the more tanned you become. Negroes tend to live in sunny countries.


Ridicolous reply. He wrote: "they were like plants: They produced far too much carbon under their skin – and became black"

They were like plants? Produced far too much carbon? Skin doesn't become black from carbon. Geeze...


Couldn't the man play with words and be inventive with them then? You don't have to take everything so literally, sjeesj for that matter...
34) Message boards : Politics : The racial teachings of Rudolf Steiner. Founder of Anthroposophy and Waldorf education (Message 1564602)
Posted 2 hours ago by Profile JulieProject donor
Rudolf Steiner:

“But the people that didn’t develop their id, that was too exposed to the influence of the sun, they were like plants: They produced far too much carbon under their skin – and became black. That is why the negroes are black.”

From: Rudolf Steiner, Geisteswissenschaftliche Menschenkunde, 1908–1909, s. 5:9.



With these words he referred to the sun and its UV rays, tanning our skin. What's racist about that? The longer one is exposed to the sun, the more tanned you become. Negroes tend to live in sunny countries.
35) Message boards : Politics : The racial teachings of Rudolf Steiner. Founder of Anthroposophy and Waldorf education (Message 1564592)
Posted 2 hours ago by Profile JulieProject donor

Only people who are outsmarted start insulting Sten-Arne:)


OK, you asked for it. I will start now posting item by item of Steiners racism in this thread. Hope you will enjoy it.

This will keep the thread running for months I guess.



I'm waiting, and waiting to reply:)
36) Message boards : Politics : The racial teachings of Rudolf Steiner. Founder of Anthroposophy and Waldorf education (Message 1564589)
Posted 2 hours ago by Profile JulieProject donor
Maybe, but I'm still finding your link interesting. Now on lecture 3.

Sidenote:

I hope I'm not becoming a Steiner admirer :-)


:)
37) Message boards : Politics : The racial teachings of Rudolf Steiner. Founder of Anthroposophy and Waldorf education (Message 1564588)
Posted 2 hours ago by Profile JulieProject donor
I really doubt the objectiveness of the links in the OP. Skepticreports and Waldorfcritics? Says enough for me...


Sigh, don't go all Scientology and L Ron Hubbard on me will you. I've been fighting the Scientology cult for decades, and I know all the excuses there is to put in doubt the truthfulness of criticism against cultic mindsets.

Why not go all way out, and ask me what crimes I have committed against humanity, and if I have stopped beating my wife? :-)



Don't tempt me;) I'm just thinking, a smart man like Steiner has a lot of critics, that's very normal. I will look into that so called racism of him but for now he will remain my hero on my profile:)


Well Julie, it's your life, and nobody except you can live it. In my opinion you've been misled though, but it is you and only you who will have to take responsibility for your life.

In the future when and if you realize the con game nature of Steiners ideas, don't say that you weren't informed though.


Like I said a few posts ago, Steiners books have helped me through a rough period and I never doubted his ideas (so far). It's your opinion against mine but I guess that's called politics, right? ;)

[edit]

Again from Wikipedia:

Steiner occasionally characterized specific races, nations, and ethnicities in ways that have been termed racist by critics


Well Julie, come on. Racism is racism and there is no specific racism only to critics. Now you're grabbing at straws :-) Your defence of Steiners open racism begins to get ridicolous. "termed rasist by critics" Geeze, it's racist for every thinking person.

Get over your pride, and admit that Steiner uttered racistic words, and be done with it.


Correction, it's racist for YOU, Sten-Arne, you're the critic here.


I beg your pardon? Is Steiners racism only racistic to me? You have a cultic mindset and that's very clear. Steiners views of the black man, and his views of other races are only racism to me?

I'll stop this debate now, because you're behaving ridicolous, as everyone here can see. I feel no need to debate someone so utterly stuck in a cultic mindset, but I will revive this thread from time to time, so it doesn't drop out of view. Feel free to continue your defence of the undefendable, it only makes this thread better.

Have a nice weekend.


Only people who are outsmarted start insulting Sten-Arne:)
38) Message boards : Politics : The racial teachings of Rudolf Steiner. Founder of Anthroposophy and Waldorf education (Message 1564575)
Posted 2 hours ago by Profile JulieProject donor
To be fair here, myself as well as many other students found it racist.

Why did we see it that way? Easy, growing up in the 50's & 60's in the UK, Blacks & Irish were unwelcome, so seeing the races divided as Steiner stated with the "Superior White Race" as nothing but racist & also elitist.



It's all a matter of perception and interpreting words, you're right Sirius.
39) Message boards : Politics : The racial teachings of Rudolf Steiner. Founder of Anthroposophy and Waldorf education (Message 1564571)
Posted 2 hours ago by Profile JulieProject donor
I really doubt the objectiveness of the links in the OP. Skepticreports and Waldorfcritics? Says enough for me...


Sigh, don't go all Scientology and L Ron Hubbard on me will you. I've been fighting the Scientology cult for decades, and I know all the excuses there is to put in doubt the truthfulness of criticism against cultic mindsets.

Why not go all way out, and ask me what crimes I have committed against humanity, and if I have stopped beating my wife? :-)



Don't tempt me;) I'm just thinking, a smart man like Steiner has a lot of critics, that's very normal. I will look into that so called racism of him but for now he will remain my hero on my profile:)


Well Julie, it's your life, and nobody except you can live it. In my opinion you've been misled though, but it is you and only you who will have to take responsibility for your life.

In the future when and if you realize the con game nature of Steiners ideas, don't say that you weren't informed though.


Like I said a few posts ago, Steiners books have helped me through a rough period and I never doubted his ideas (so far). It's your opinion against mine but I guess that's called politics, right? ;)

[edit]

Again from Wikipedia:

Steiner occasionally characterized specific races, nations, and ethnicities in ways that have been termed racist by critics


Well Julie, come on. Racism is racism and there is no specific racism only to critics. Now you're grabbing at straws :-) Your defence of Steiners open racism begins to get ridicolous. "termed rasist by critics" Geeze, it's racist for every thinking person.

Get over your pride, and admit that Steiner uttered racistic words, and be done with it.


Correction, it's racist for YOU, Sten-Arne, you're the critic here.
40) Message boards : Cafe SETI : Whiskey's Mini-City News V (Message 1564565)
Posted 3 hours ago by Profile JulieProject donor
Thanx for the Stats Michael:)


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