Posts by Es99


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41) Message boards : Politics : Against ALL women - Infanticide, Slavery, Rape, Trafficking... (#2) (Message 1670911)
Posted 6 days ago by Profile Es99Project donor
If it was a stare by a black person and you are white and wrote all the stereotypical things you did were going to happen to you, I'd swear you were living in Dixie back in the Jim Crow era. Talk about overt "ist" and "ism"

There is none so blind as those who won't see.
It has been pointed out that it is unwanted and intimidating.
It has been pointed out that is a precursor to worse behaviour often enough to make it actually frightening.

..yet he still insists that somehow it is his rights that have been infringed on.

Could you provide a better and more clear cut example of male entitlement if you tried?
42) Message boards : Politics : Against ALL women - Infanticide, Slavery, Rape, Trafficking... (#2) (Message 1670896)
Posted 6 days ago by Profile Es99Project donor
The Daily Fail: How Britain’s Daily Mail Fails Women
The Daily Mail is the world’s most visited news site. Its popularity surpasses even that of the NY Times, which is frightening if you stop and think about it. Millions of readers apparently consider this anti-immigrant, sensationalist, lowest-common denominator tabloid a reliable source. But even if you can ignore the site’s frequent racism and Islamophobia, its blatant sexism will smack you in the face.
43) Message boards : Politics : Against ALL women - Infanticide, Slavery, Rape, Trafficking... (#2) (Message 1670895)
Posted 6 days ago by Profile Es99Project donor

They are Daily Mail readers.

Really? So you're saying there are Women & there are Feminists in the world & that we men have to differentiate between them? How?[/quote]
That is the part of the post that matters to you? So you don't actually care about sexual harassment.

I am not going to get into the thinking ability of the level of self awareness of the average Daily Mail reader here, but it is foul hateful rag of a newspaper and the topic of many feminist discourse about how the media helps perpetuate sexism, including internalised sexism.
44) Message boards : Politics : Against ALL women - Infanticide, Slavery, Rape, Trafficking... (#2) (Message 1670891)
Posted 6 days ago by Profile Es99Project donor

Ah right... A guy 500 feet up spots a woman smartly dressed & looking gorgeous , so he wolf whistles...


..and that is the end of it...

...or she ignores him and he takes affront calling her a stuck up b*tch leaving her upset and shaken...

...or she smiles at him thinking its just a compliment and he takes this as an invitation to do more, which it wasn't. Depending how much more he does it could end up in court at which point the women is told she was asking for it because she was looking gorgeous and she smiled him.

..or she ignores him and he calls her a stuck up b*tch and throws things at her and spits at her..or follows her calling her names...

...she's frightened & intimidated? Why, the guy is 500 feet up & not in any position to harm her.

..and we know that how? The women in the street know he's not going to harm her how? Let me know, because next time it happens to me I won't get frightened that this 'harmless wolf whistle' isn't a preamble to any of the above scenarios...or are you really that clueless about the way some men behave towards women? I've ignored many a wolf whistle or 'smile love' only to get a torrent of abuse for not wanting to smile at them. I've felt pressured to smile back at men who demand it only to be followed and harassed because they took it as an invitation to do so. I f8cking hate being heckled in the street. It causes me great anxiety because I simply do not know what is going to happen next. All I know is that someone potentially dangerous has noticed me and I don't know what they are going to do next.

So don't you tell me that I shouldn't find it frightening and intimidating, because I do, and with damn good reason.

If you read the comments, several women commented that she should get a life. Your thoughts on those women are?

They are Daily Mail readers.
45) Message boards : Cafe SETI : Man shoots computer in Colorado Springs alley... (Message 1670880)
Posted 6 days ago by Profile Es99Project donor
oh my!

I once threw my laptop across the room because spider walked across the keyboard. Perhaps there was a spider on his computer?
46) Message boards : Politics : Against ALL women - Infanticide, Slavery, Rape, Trafficking... (#2) (Message 1670878)
Posted 6 days ago by Profile Es99Project donor
Feminism gone too far?

Police probe wolf whistling construction site

Good for her. Street harassment is intimidating and unpleasant, its about time it was recognised for the problem it is.
47) Message boards : Politics : Against ALL women - Infanticide, Slavery, Rape, Trafficking... (#2) (Message 1670409)
Posted 7 days ago by Profile Es99Project donor

Take over? The group was founded by a guy. That said, can't guys be Feminists? Or allies? Whatever you want to call it? Just because hes a guy doesn't mean FEMEN is not a Feminist advocacy group and just because hes a guy doesn't mean some of their actions are a bit extreme and patronizing.

There is some debate as to whether the group of was founded or taken over by a guy. However, it was him that led the extreme protests you are complaining about, and he did not lead the group in a way that was respectful to women. I am not sure he actually does qualify as a feminist when he take over a group of women because 'they are not doing it right'. That doesn't sound like a feminist to me. That sounds like a power trip.


Well, you might think that, but there are plenty of people, men and women, who like their religion and who want to have religion play a role in their life. Having a bunch of topless women storm in telling them that they are being oppressed and that they should give up religion to not be oppressed is patronizing and probably not entirely true.

I suspect you would find my views on religion and what should be done about it rather extreme. I am sure that their protests were about raising awareness and debate, not about literally converting those individuals. Of course, when a group is oppressed, they might think something is bad, but be too afraid to speak out or act on that. It could be enough to see others also think it is bad.


You can make a fuss without setting off bombs or destroying property.

Personally I don't agree with harming people for a cause, however, every time you make this claim of feminists being extreme (and how many feminists have actually planted bombs compared to how many male led organisations? I suspect the numbers are actually insignificant in comparison.) I get a flash of all the horrible things that have been done just in the west to women I know in the last century and wonder why women are being so damn nice about it.


Yeah sure, but that doesn't mean that Feminism includes also groups like that, and which were extreme in their views on human sexuality.

The current porn industry is male dominated and has a very extreme view on human sexuality that is damaging and unrealistic. There is nothing that feminists have done that can even begin to top the extremity of the current porn industry. Is it any wonder that some feminists violently recoil from it and get a distorted and frightening view of male sexuality? I am glad that I did not learn about men from watching porn. I would probably have joined a nunnery. I try to warn my own male children that watching porn will given them a false view of male-female relationships, but porn is so pervasive I have little hope of them being able to avoid it until they are grown human beings with a healthy respect for women.


I disagree. Yeah, sure, I'm not a woman and yeah that means Im not qualified to pretend to know what it is like to be a woman. That however does not mean Feminism is immune from criticism by men simply because 'they can't understand what its like to be a woman.' Feminist arguments should still pass the criteria set by reason and logic, and if they don't its fair to criticize them, the gender of the critic doesn't matter, at least not as long as their criticisms hold up to reason and logic as well.

One of the foundations of logic is having all the facts so that you can draw a logical conclusions. The best way to learn about the facts of the female existence is to listen to women with out judgement and believe that our experience is real and valid. You cannot learn about it from just your own experience of the world. How can you competently criticise something when you don't know much about it?
48) Message boards : Politics : Against ALL women - Infanticide, Slavery, Rape, Trafficking... (#2) (Message 1670389)
Posted 7 days ago by Profile Es99Project donor
You will have to provide me examples of where they have crossed from activism to extremism before you make that claim. I am not finding any on first look.

Well, there is the fact that they have a habit of trying to insult everyone of an entire religion. Thats pretty extreme and not at all helpful. I think there are plenty of feminists who are also religious and who have no problem combining their religion with their feminist views. Nor do they need 'saving' by FEMEN (thats the patronizing bit).

The irony of your statement is that FEMEN was taken over by a man who was the driving force behind most of the radical acts you are complaining about.

If Femen was set up by a man, where does that leave its topless protests?

That said, when they are not trying to liberate women from the patriarchal oppression of religion, they do make some very good points, and their brand of activism certainly draws attention to their causes.

Liberating women from the patriarchal oppression of religion seems like an excellent idea to me. I am not sure what the problem with that is.


I don't like to label an entire movement as extremists, but they definitely had some extremists in their ranks. Sorry, but anyone who tries to make a point through violence and destruction is an extremist and rather incompetent at making said point. I prefer my social change to come from non violent actions.

Don't we all. However, sometimes you have to make quite a fuss if you want anyone to listen to. Especially if you are from a group that is traditionally ignored.


How about the Feminists groups that are against porn, especially in the late 70's and 80's. Their views are pretty extreme. Andrea Dworkin who claims that all porn is intrinsically harmful to women. Those groups definitely had good points, but at the same time, those groups took those views way too far and they were rather patronizing towards sex workers and women who are into BDSM, etc. And then there was that time they tried to outlaw porn in such a way it would be a massive breach of civil liberties and free speech (and once again, also extremely patronizing towards women, men and transgenders who work in porn).

The feminist movement is full of different people with different views. Most of those ideas, which came from a reasonable place considering how bad things were for women back in the 70s and 80s, however, the movement has moved on as we have gotten a better idea of human sexuality. It is only because of the feminist movement that we have been able to freely explore female sexuality because it was such a taboo before hand.


Well, insulting entire religions and proposing legislation that is a blatant attack on free speech are pretty extremist things to do. Even if the problems women face are also extreme in nature. That by itself doesn't excuse extremism from the other side. And its my firm conviction that extremism can't be fought with extremism.

Again, I think the 'extreme' seems to be a label that depends on the eye of the beholder. There is so much woeful ignorance of the way women have been treated, and still are treated, that until you actually live as women I am not sure you are in a position to judge the worthiness of our response.
49) Message boards : Politics : Against ALL women - Infanticide, Slavery, Rape, Trafficking... (#2) (Message 1670385)
Posted 7 days ago by Profile Es99Project donor
... but it seems to me that many women want to be seen as the great hard done by.
...

Thank you for making my point so well for me. This is exactly the attitude that is so wrong in the world today.

I'm not going to say any more to you about this, because you are so wilfully entrenched in your denial that short of finding a man to explain it to you, there is little I can do.
50) Message boards : Politics : Against ALL women - Infanticide, Slavery, Rape, Trafficking... (#2) (Message 1670165)
Posted 8 days ago by Profile Es99Project donor
When some one dismisses certain feminists as being 'extremists' it is (possibly deliberately) insulting. It is insulting, because as a man you are claiming that you are a better judge of what issues women's find important and worth fighting over than women. This is the very definition of patronising.

It could also be that the person who calls certain feminists 'extremists' not so much disagrees with what that person claims to stand for, but objects to the way they go about standing for it.

Well if that were the case I don't understand why Germaine Greer or 'bra burning' would come up as if these are examples of extremism. Apart from anything else, it has been pointed out to me that the idea of the 'bra burning' feminist' is a fiction in the first place.


Bra-Burning Feminists: NOT
Another Myth of Women's History

So I can only take such dismissals and attacks as ways of silencing women who don't know their place.
Take FEMEN as an example. I do think they are extremists, not beca[url]use I disagree with what they seek to accomplish, but by how they seek to accomplish it (I find them patronizing and insulting).

You will have to provide me examples of where they have crossed from activism to extremism before you make that claim. I am not finding any on first look.

Perhaps you would have labelled the suffragettes as extremists? There is certainly an argument for that, but where would be without them?

Or take some of the 2nd wave sex negative Feminists, the ones that claim all sex is degrading for women because its all supposedly about male domination over female bodies. Somewhere in there they make a good point about how society handles sex and how we see women, but at the same time they go a bit far in their assertions, to the point where even other Feminists think they go to far. Isn't that the definition of extremism?
[/url]

Again you are going to have to provide actual examples of this. As we have seen from the 'bra burning' feminists label, there is a lot of misinformation out there.
The fact that a lot of people misuse the label doesn't mean the label has no value. Nazi, terrorist, liberal, socialist, communist, they are all labels that are misused constantly in discussions or debates by people who can't construct actual arguments that stand up to scrutiny and who try to win using cheap tricks like this. Still, all of those labels have a point when used correctly.

'Correctly' being the operative word there. Considering the extremism women face on a daily basis, I am not sure if these relatively mild feminist responses you have singled out actually qualify as extremism.
51) Message boards : Politics : Against ALL women - Infanticide, Slavery, Rape, Trafficking... (#2) (Message 1669859)
Posted 8 days ago by Profile Es99Project donor
..
Same goes for sexism... Some men do not even realise they are patronizing towards all women... As seen in this very thread...

I am aware that this is your thread, Martin, but it does seem to be a thread about women's issues.

There are men and women. Now it's a third gender called other.
Where do they belong?

Where they feel they belong.
52) Message boards : Politics : Against ALL women - Infanticide, Slavery, Rape, Trafficking... (#2) (Message 1669846)
Posted 8 days ago by Profile Es99Project donor
..

Same goes for sexism... Some men do not even realise they are patronizing towards all women... As seen in this very thread...
...


All in our only one world,
Martin

Indeed, Martin. Sexism is so ingrained that there are people who display sexist and patronising attitudes and don't even realise it.

I am aware that this is your thread, Martin, but it does seem to be a thread about women's issues.

As a women I feel that I am better qualified to highlight what those are than most men, because most men (due to them not living in this world as women) are woefully ignorant as to what the world is like to live in if you are female.

When some one dismisses certain feminists as being 'extremists' it is (possibly deliberately) insulting. It is insulting, because as a man you are claiming that you are a better judge of what issues women's find important and worth fighting over than women. This is the very definition of patronising.

Please be aware that I will mod this thread in particular more strictly than others because I live in world where people who don't understand my experience feel they have the right to tell me what to feel and how to show my feelings and what I should and should not get upset about simply because I am a women.

This is the reality.

I also live in world where it seems that the worse thing that can happen to a women is being raped and murdered and simply by being a women the odds of this happening to me are vastly increased.

This does not mean I should not get upset about all the other negative things that I will experience because I am a women. These things can range from being charged more by a car mechanic, or being paid less, to having my clothing choices policed.

So if you are a male that does not understand why a group of women (and I do believe it was a very small group of women) felt the need to publicly burn their bras then I suggest you shut up until you have educated yourself about the experiences of women.

Unless you are a women that lives in a world where your breasts are considered public property to be commented on, then I suggest you shut up until you educate yourself.

It is very common for spaces created by women or for women to be taken over by men who feel they have the god given right to tell women what they should and should not be upset about. For that very reason I do strictly police this thread for off topic posts.

This thread was created by Martin with the best intentions to talk about the terrible things are that our done to women simply because they are women. I would prefer to live in a world where not only do women get to tell people what their lives are like because they are women, but they are listened to when they do.
53) Message boards : Politics : Against ALL women - Infanticide, Slavery, Rape, Trafficking... (#2) (Message 1668554)
Posted 11 days ago by Profile Es99Project donor

An Individual 'Talked Down to', by another Individual, is OK?

Saying that women do it to men isn't an argument against it being a bad thing to do to women.

What is an issue is that there is certain language that over the years has been specifically directed at women to 'put them in their place'.

Chris' comment to me was such language and as such has no place in this forum.
54) Message boards : Politics : Against ALL women - Infanticide, Slavery, Rape, Trafficking... (#2) (Message 1668489)
Posted 11 days ago by Profile Es99Project donor
Yes it was, and was meant to be, and of course an affectionate giggle at traditional female reactions in those circumstances. But would you believe it, all the burn your bra brigade got their knickers bunched up about it, and said it was insulting to women .....

....

Its funny how women take issue with being talked down to like children. Who wouldn't just love that?

..and btw, your comments about "burn your bra brigade" are pretty insulting and patronising too.

Women don't 'Talk down' to men?

Ask any man.

In a society where men still have most of the power and are still taken more seriously than women, I'd say men talking down to women is a bigger problem.

Look how many women had to come forward about Cosby before anyone even started listening. I wonder how many of them were told to "calm down dear" when bringing serious issues forward.
55) Message boards : Politics : Against ALL women - Infanticide, Slavery, Rape, Trafficking... (#2) (Message 1668482)
Posted 11 days ago by Profile Es99Project donor
Yes it was, and was meant to be, and of course an affectionate giggle at traditional female reactions in those circumstances. But would you believe it, all the burn your bra brigade got their knickers bunched up about it, and said it was insulting to women .....

....

Its funny how women take issue with being talked down to like children. Who wouldn't just love that?

..and btw, your comments about "burn your bra brigade" are pretty insulting and patronising too.
56) Message boards : Politics : PEOPLE ARE SCARED TO DEATH TO GO AFTER OBLABBY and It's The 21st CENTURY (Message 1668113)
Posted 12 days ago by Profile Es99Project donor
I was not aware it was actually a word, but obviously it means a supporter of Freedomism and this blog gives the meaning I was most aiming at.
57) Message boards : Politics : Against ALL women - Infanticide, Slavery, Rape, Trafficking... (#2) (Message 1668109)
Posted 12 days ago by Profile Es99Project donor
Women too illogical to play high-level chess, says UK master - beaten by woman

How did HE explain that!
You get outliers in every group, it's perfectly possible for what he said to be true in general terms even if there are some notable exceptions.

Although possible and a nice way to keep the status quo, there is no evidence to back that up.
Calm down, dear: the dark side of ‘emotional intelligence’

His statement:
“One is not better than the other, we just have different skills. It would be wonderful to see more girls playing chess, and at a higher level, but rather than fretting about inequality, perhaps we should just gracefully accept it as a fact.”
That sounds fair to me.

Does it? Would it sound as fair to you if you were a female chess player? I suppose the world looks very different in your male privilege bubble.

Amanda Ross, of London’s Casual Chess club, told the Telegraph newspaper Short’s comment were “incredibly damaging when someone so respected basically endorses sexism.”
Give it a rest love.

Lewis' law - "Comments on any article about feminism justify feminism."
58) Message boards : Politics : I hope that this cop gets to feel the full force of the law. #2 (Message 1667843)
Posted 13 days ago by Profile Es99Project donor
I hope this pope gets to feel the full force of the law...

http://childabuserecovery.com/pope-francis-found-guilty-of-child-trafficking-rape-murder/#.VTUl-_l_tFz

How has this been kept out of the newspapers for so many years?

It does seem a little far fetched:

An ABC News special hinted that the devil resided at the Vatican. “Documents from Vatican secret archives presented to court clearly indicate that for centuries the Jesuits had a premeditated plan to ritually murder kidnapped newborn babies and then consume their blood,” the ICLCJ Court Chief Prosecutor told the five international judges and 27 jury members. “The plan was born of a twisted notion to derive spiritual power from the lifeblood of the innocent, thereby assuring political stability of the Papacy in Rome. These acts are not only genocidal but systemic and institutionalized in nature. Since at least 1773, they appear to have been performed by the Roman Catholic Church, Jesuits and every Pope.”
59) Message boards : Politics : Against ALL women - Infanticide, Slavery, Rape, Trafficking... (#2) (Message 1667841)
Posted 13 days ago by Profile Es99Project donor
Women too illogical to play high-level chess, says UK master - beaten by woman
60) Message boards : Politics : Against ALL women - Infanticide, Slavery, Rape, Trafficking... (#2) (Message 1667840)
Posted 13 days ago by Profile Es99Project donor
Yes, it looks like a protest group trying to draw attention to the way the Catholic Church covered up child abuse. The current Pope still hasn't done enough to deal with it.


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