Posts by Hev


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1) Message boards : Politics : The Israel and Palestine conflict (Message 1548656)
Posted 13 hours ago by Profile Hev
Now imagine that they launched an attack from an Irish school. Are you saying that the British would be well within their rights to bomb that school full of innocent Irish children? Would you, as an Irish person, be totally ok with that?

Do they launch the attacks at all hours of the day and night? Are they launching the attack with the kids in the school? Does my intelligence even know if there are kids in the building?

Suppose they launch attacks from 9:00 to 12:00 in the morning on school days from the roof of the classrooms. My intelligence knows classes are from 8:00 to 2:00. My intelligence also knows they wheel the launchers into the bomb shelter under the classrooms when they are done shooting at 12:00 every day. Do I have to wait until say 3:00 so I'm reasonably sure all the kids are gone? So I can only attack the equipment but not the soldiers? Does it make a difference that there is a apartment house next to the school and I will need to use much larger explosive, one I know will take out the apartment house to penetrate the bomb shelter?

Welcome to the world of the morality of the immorality of war.

The reality is the enemy can by his choices remove the possibility of me making choices to limit collateral damage by where and when he chooses to fight.

Did Britain participate in the firebombing of Dresden? Was that firebombing a war crime?


Yes, the firebombing of Dresden was a war crime.
2) Message boards : Politics : The Israel and Palestine conflict (Message 1548635)
Posted 13 hours ago by Profile Hev
Here is an interesting and thoughtful article from today's Haaretz newspaper

The country that wouldn't grow up


An interesting read Hev - thank you :) This IS off-topic I know, but the piece mentioned apartheid South Africa... which made me think of the sanctions that were brought against that country...

If you'll forgive my being nosy for a moment... How many supported that and/or boycotted their tainted goods? :) And how many bought products "made/produced in Israel" then? Some canned fruit perhaps? Orange juice maybe? So many many things :) How many know that Israel was the middle man, the sanction breaker, the arms dealer and profiteer, that propped up that regime?


Hi anniet, the anti-apartheid movement in South Africa definitely is on topic. Many of us took part in the sanctions against South Africa even if it was just refusing to buy South African products.

Many consider Israel an apartheid state and there is a lot of activity via getting banks (remember Barclays?) to withdraw from operating in Israel, boycotting goods from Israel etc.

Here is a link to the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) Movement

BDS Movement
3) Message boards : Politics : The Israel and Palestine conflict (Message 1548189)
Posted 1 day ago by Profile Hev
Here is an interesting and thoughtful article from today's Haaretz newspaper

The country that wouldn't grow up
4) Message boards : Politics : The Israel and Palestine conflict (Message 1546786)
Posted 4 days ago by Profile Hev
A compassionate piece of writing by Gabor Maté in the Toronto Star..

By: Gabor Maté Published on Tue Jul 22 2014

"As a Jewish youngster growing up in Budapest, an infant survivor of the Nazi genocide, I was for years haunted by a question resounding in my brain with such force that sometimes my head would spin: “How was it possible? How could the world have let such horrors happen?”

It was a naïve question, that of a child. I know better now: such is reality. Whether in Vietnam or Rwanda or Syria, humanity stands by either complicitly or unconsciously or helplessly, as it always does. In Gaza today we find ways of justifying the bombing of hospitals, the annihilation of families at dinner, the killing of pre-adolescents playing soccer on a beach."

Full article

Beautiful dream of Israel has become a nightmare. Everyone ought to be sad at what the beautiful old dream of Jewish redemption has come to. Everyone ought to grieve the death of innocents

Just finished the article.

The piece was not "compassionate". At least to the Jewish People in Israel, whom Hamas, and other Jihadist's, repeatedly state they wish to exterminate.


Thank you Clyde for reading the article.
I'm sorry that you didn't find the article compassionate. If people have no empathy for the slaughter taking place in Gaza, there is nothing I can really say about that.
5) Message boards : Politics : The Israel and Palestine conflict (Message 1546641)
Posted 4 days ago by Profile Hev
A compassionate piece of writing by Gabor Maté in the Toronto Star..

By: Gabor Maté Published on Tue Jul 22 2014

"As a Jewish youngster growing up in Budapest, an infant survivor of the Nazi genocide, I was for years haunted by a question resounding in my brain with such force that sometimes my head would spin: “How was it possible? How could the world have let such horrors happen?”

It was a naïve question, that of a child. I know better now: such is reality. Whether in Vietnam or Rwanda or Syria, humanity stands by either complicitly or unconsciously or helplessly, as it always does. In Gaza today we find ways of justifying the bombing of hospitals, the annihilation of families at dinner, the killing of pre-adolescents playing soccer on a beach."

Full article

Beautiful dream of Israel has become a nightmare. Everyone ought to be sad at what the beautiful old dream of Jewish redemption has come to. Everyone ought to grieve the death of innocents
6) Message boards : Politics : The Israel and Palestine conflict (Message 1546260)
Posted 5 days ago by Profile Hev
Worth a read.
Life — if you can call it that — under Israel’s Iron Dome


Looks like they still have all their body parts though.
7) Message boards : Politics : The Israel and Palestine conflict (Message 1546258)
Posted 5 days ago by Profile Hev
Especially when the western media reporting is so incredibly biased against them. Most Americans do not hear the other side of the argument at all.

I will keep trying to present the view from the other side because that story needs to be told.

In doing so please do not spread propaganda.
http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/8076.htm
I know it will be vary hard to get non biased reporting to quote. Anyone inside Gaza is subject to Hamas censorship.

Only then can there be some movement to finding a workable solution.

No. Only if each side wishes an end will there be a solution. Don't presuppose both sides wish an end, when that is not a fact in evidence.

Unfortunately if there was peace there would be an incredible power vacuum in Gaza and Hamas would be out of a job. Hamas is very unlikely to allow that to happen. They (the persons making up the bureaucracy) have far too much personally at stake to wish an end to the conflict.


You do know that your linked website is a Vital Component in the U.S. War on Terror don't you? I wouldn't expect much non bias there especially given the familiar names on the board of advisors, Donald Rumsfeld being one of them.
8) Message boards : Politics : The Israel and Palestine conflict (Message 1546146)
Posted 5 days ago by Profile Hev
"These remarks (by Netanyahu) are profoundly depressing. They bear out all of our fears and suspicions: that the government of Israel is led by a man who doesn't believe the Palestinians and doesn't believe in the chance of an agreement with them, who thinks that Washington is in his pocket and that he can pull the wool over its eyes. There's no point in talking about Netanyahu's impossible rightist coalition as an obstacle to progress. From now on, just say that Netanyahu doesn't want it."

columnist Gideon Levy - Haaretz newspaper

Netanyahu bragged he has america wrapped around his finger
9) Message boards : Politics : The Israel and Palestine conflict (Message 1546135)
Posted 5 days ago by Profile Hev
They are simply told that Hamas is a terrorist organisation (despite being democratically elected by the people of Gaza) and that it wants to destroy Israel (despite exactly the same rhetoric coming out of Israel about the Palestinians.)

Being democratically elected does not precude being a terrorist organization. That statement you made does not pass the logic test.


But one man's terrorist is often another man's freedom fighter. When the Taliban were fighting their USSR invaders - the west armed them... When the IRA... I could go on... I won't.


Not to mention that the Likud (Benjamin Netanyahu) party has it's roots in the Irgun which was designated as a terrorist organisation in the 1940's.
10) Message boards : Politics : The Israel and Palestine conflict (Message 1545930)
Posted 5 days ago by Profile Hev
Informative Israeli website for Israeli soldiers who share their experiences on what it is like to serve in the occupied territories.

"Breaking the Silence is an organization of veteran combatants who have served in the Israeli military since the start of the Second Intifada and have taken it upon themselves to expose the Israeli public to the reality of everyday life in the Occupied Territories. We endeavor to stimulate public debate about the price paid for a reality in which young soldiers face a civilian population on a daily basis, and are engaged in the control of that population’s everyday life."

Breaking the Silence - Israeli soldiers talk about the occupied territories
11) Message boards : Politics : The Israel and Palestine conflict (Message 1545633)
Posted 6 days ago by Profile Hev
I haven't linked to the site because of the graphic images.

Casualties in Gaza

Over 3300 have been injured, including 822 children and 572 women, with some losing limbs and others disabled for life.

578 were reported to have been killed. The last update by the Palestinian Ministry of Health was July 21 at 23.21.

Of those killed, 129 are children and 69 are women, according to the Palestinian Center for Human Rights.


Casualties in Israel

10 Israeli soldiers

1 Israeli civilian killed by a Palestinian shell
12) Message boards : Politics : The Israel and Palestine conflict (Message 1545179)
Posted 7 days ago by Profile Hev

The HUMAN SHIELDS Hamas is using?


Extract from article by Omar Baddar regarding the use of human shields and writes that Amnesty International found no evidence that Hamas used civilians as human shields in the 2009 conflict but acknowledged that hamas operated in and amongst the overcrowded population of Gaza.

Human Shields

While human rights organizations haven’t yet addressed “human shields” allegations in the ongoing round of Israel-Gaza violence, they did after the 2009 round when Israel killed at least 773 Palestinian civilians, compared to three Israeli civilian casualties (a ratio of 257:1), and used the same “human shields” argument to deflect responsibility for those deaths. When the dust settled, Amnesty International investigated the matter and concluded that there was “no evidence that [Palestinian] rockets were launched from residential houses or buildings while civilians were in these buildings.” More attention-worthy was the report’s note that,

in the cases of [Israeli] precision missiles or tank shells which killed [Palestinian] civilians in their homes, no fighters were present in the houses that were struck and Amnesty International delegates found no indication that there had been any armed confrontations or other military activity in the immediate vicinity at the time of the attack.

Israel’s Use of Human Shields

By contrast, the same report found that “in several cases Israeli soldiers also used [Palestinian] civilians, including children, as ‘human shields’.” Going back in time just a little further to put this into context is important: when the Israeli Supreme Court ruled in 2005 that the Israeli military had to stop using Palestinian civilians as human shields, the Israeli “defense” establishment objected to the ruling. The appeal against the ruling failed, and the practice remains technically illegal, but Israel implicitly encourages it to continue by offering an “inadequate … slap on the wrist,” as Human Rights Watch put it, to Israeli soldiers caught using this reprehensible tactic.

This reveals two important things: the first is the moral hypocrisy and chutzpah on display when Israel ignores its own use of human shields as it accuses its enemies of using them. The second is Israel’s self-contradicting logic: If Palestinian militants had such disregard for Palestinian civilian lives, why was the Israeli military so invested in maintaining the ability to use Palestinians as shields? The fact that the Israeli army wants to use Palestinian human shields actually proves that they believe Palestinian militants prefer not to endanger their own civilians.

Full article:
Collective punishment or human shields
13) Message boards : Politics : The Israel and Palestine conflict (Message 1545162)
Posted 7 days ago by Profile Hev

Does The PLO/Hamas accept the existence of Israel?

You are confusing day-to-day tactical responses, with the Foundational Problem:

The PLO/Hamas want the destruction of the Israeli State. Until they renounce this: There can never be true steps towards peace.

The first step towards Peace is REALLY in The PLO/Hamas Court. Not Israel.

PLO/Hamas MUST ACCEPT ISRAEL'S EXISTANCE!!!

You keep saying this as if it is the only thing going on here. Stop banging that drum and you might hear some of what Israel is doing to make this situation worse.

Israel needs to accept Palestine's existence.
That means they need to stop the inhumane blockade.
They need to stop deliberately targeting children.
They need to stop detaining people without trial.
They need to stop settling Palestinian land.

Sayed Kashua: why I have to leave Israel


Understand your thinking. It just aides and abets the Terrorists.

Doesn't really matter. Hamas (The Cheering Children Killer's) is getting more isolated. They are so bad: They have recently lost the financial backing if Iran, and the Political backing of other Mid-East Country's.

Why do you still act like a shill for these Murderers?


You do understand that Chris Hedges is talking about Israel targeting children not Hamas, don't you?
14) Message boards : Politics : The Israel and Palestine conflict (Message 1544976)
Posted 7 days ago by Profile Hev


Rabbis for peace - Trafalgar Square, London
15) Message boards : Politics : The Israel and Palestine conflict (Message 1544585)
Posted 8 days ago by Profile Hev
This is a post I made here on the seti forum five and a half years ago. The link is to the Jewish newspaper Haaretz.
And so it goes on, around and around.

"The actions of Israel are seen by some in Israel as a war crime the neighborhood bully strikes again

And as the following points out, the issues surrounding the Israel/Palestine conflict are complex.

JOHN BERGER ON GAZA

December 29, 2008, 2:49 am
Filed under: Gaza, Israel | Tags: John Berger
A message from the British writer and art critic, John Berger.

We are now spectators of the latest - and perhaps penultimate - chapter of the 60 year old conflict between Israel and the Palestinian people. About the complexities of this tragic conflict billions of words have been pronounced, defending one side or the other.

Today, in face of the Israeli attacks on Gaza, the essential calculation, which was always covertly there, behind this conflict, has been blatantly revealed. The death of one Israeli victim justifies the killing of a hundred Palestinians. One Israeli life is worth a hundred Palestinian lives.

This is what the Israeli State and the world media more or less - with marginal questioning - mindlessly repeat. And this claim, which has accompanied and justified the longest Occupation of foreign territories in 20th C. European history, is viscerally racist. That the Jewish people should accept this, that the world should concur, that the Palestinians should submit to it - is one of history's ironic jokes. There's no laughter anywhere. We can, however, refute it, more and more vocally.

Let's do so.

John Berger

27 December 2008"
16) Message boards : Politics : The Israel and Palestine conflict (Message 1544182)
Posted 9 days ago by Profile Hev
.......
Gaza is occupied? What plant are you consuming?


You might want to ask the same question to the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs for Israel, Ilana Stein, who I've just watched in a news interview (admittedly on Russia Today) but you can still try and catch it.
To fulfil their territorial obligations due to the occupation (her word) she said that leaflets are distributed to the population warning them before the slaughter (my word) begins.

Some further reading...

Instead of demanding a halt to Israel's campaign of collective punishment against what is still illegally occupied territory, the western powers have blamed the victims for fighting back
17) Message boards : Politics : The Israel and Palestine conflict (Message 1544103)
Posted 9 days ago by Profile Hev
Apart from that, Israel is using collective punishment which is a war crime under the Geneva Convention (which Israel is a signatory to).

May I ask what firing rockets with bombs indiscriminately into a populated area is? Is that a war crime of targeting civilians? Is it less of a crime if they miss their mark?

Both sides have the high moral position of a Nazi.


Gaza cannot commit aggression against Israel as under international law it is illegally occupied by Israel.

As an occupied territory Gaza has the right to self determination and the right to defend itself against aggression.
18) Message boards : Politics : The Israel and Palestine conflict (Message 1544077)
Posted 9 days ago by Profile Hev
What do you make of this? Another take on it all:

I think that people have to stop reading spurious blogs.


This spurious blog is an update of an article in the Guardian from a week ago.

Apart from that, Israel is using collective punishment which is a war crime under the Geneva Convention (which Israel is a signatory to).

The Gaza strip is one of the most densely populated areas in the world comprising 1.7 million people on 140 square miles. Half the population are children. Gaza is tightly blockaded by Israel and the population is a sitting target for whatever inhumane and sadistic cruelty Israel wishes to leash on it.
19) Message boards : Politics : The Israel and Palestine conflict (Message 1543825)
Posted 9 days ago by Profile Hev
Innocent people are being killed.

Very sad :(


A 5 months old baby, what in God's name has it done wrong??:(

I don't have anything against Jewish people but they are quite persistent and egocentric at times...:( They also seem to have a strong urge to 'conquer' what they believe is already theirs, but is it really theirs?

Very sad, but .... frequently terrorists hide behind "innocents", or store weapons in places like schools and hospitals.

There is a recent video showing a middle aged Arab claiming to be innocent and asking why Israel bombed his house, turns out he has four sons who were all living in the house, all members of Hamas.


Hamas won a major parliamentary election in Gaza in 2006 and is a legitimate Palestinian organisation.

Hamas Sweeps Palestinian Elections - Washington Post
20) Message boards : Politics : The Israel and Palestine conflict (Message 1543665)
Posted 10 days ago by Profile Hev

Just one question.

If (fill-in the blank) were firing Children Killing Weapons at you. They continually announce they are doing this because YOUR Country should 'disappear'. They will not renounce this. They cheer in the street, and give out candy, rejoicing in the Murder of three of your children.

What do you do to stop these people from killing YOUR Children?

Again, which side are you referring to here?

Question. Which side rejoices and hands out candy, regarding the Murder of Three Civilian Youths?

Bombing of Gaza children gives me “orgasm”: Israelis celebrate slaughter on Facebook



SICK SICK people....

Did the Israeli Government handout candy? Did the Israeli people celebrate in the streets?

A few Social Media deranged persons are not the above.

The only difference is one group has access to the internet.

Since that is a negative. What will be your next excuse?

Did the Israeli Government hand out candy? Did the Israeli people celebrate in the streets?

Why do you keep on wittering on about the Israeli Government handing out candy when an act of ethnic cleansing is taking place against the inhabitants of Gaza?


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