Posts by HAL9000

1) Message boards : Number crunching : Another dumb question...................RAM (Message 1843097)
Posted 1 day ago by Profile HAL9000
Post:
There are some projects than use quite a lot of ram. There was one I was running that used ~4GB per task. Currently SETI@home the memory requirements are pretty low. Normally <50MB per task for CPU tasks. GPU tasks can use more, but that varies based on the specific app. I think 100-200MB per GPU tasks might be a good rule of thumb.

If the systems were using all of the RAM and doing a lot of disk thrashing then the increased memory will defiantly help.
2) Message boards : Number crunching : AMD 290X vs RX 480 for seti/ DUAL NVIDIA 1070 vs Single 1080 (Message 1842983)
Posted 2 days ago by Profile HAL9000
Post:
I was just comparing the run times of Michel Makhlouta's 1070's to my R9 390X. It looks like my 390 completes similar tasks bout 25% faster and the 390 is only rated about 2% higher in GFLOPS. GTX 1070 - 5783 GFLOPs vs R9 390X - 5913 GFLOPs

How well the application is able to make use of the hardware is what really determines whether your card will produce a lot of work or not. Doesn't matter how much capability the card my have, if the software can't take advantage of it.

Indeed. I added that to emphasize the comment I made a few lines before that.
In practice there isn't a direct correlation between FLOPS and doing SETI@home work. Especially between different vendors. Sometimes it isn't even useful to compare different generations of GPUs this way.
3) Message boards : Number crunching : Panic Mode On (104) Server Problems? (Message 1842954)
Posted 2 days ago by Profile HAL9000
Post:
I use 7.6.33 with the manager from 6.10.48. I don't need a notices tab and I use the messages tab enough that having to open Event Log is simply annoying.

The showstopper for me is the lack of app_config with the older manager.

Ah, I use notepad for that.

It is odd that some users with the issue are having luck toggling their web preferences back and forth. While others with the same settings, and haven't touched their preferences in months, are not having any issues.
My SETI@home prefs are either Yes, Yes, No or No, Yes, No and look to have been that way since at least April of last year.
Are the only hosts effected those that have or did have "accept work from other applications" set to Yes before the issue effecting that setting occurred?
4) Message boards : Number crunching : Panic Mode On (104) Server Problems? (Message 1842948)
Posted 2 days ago by Profile HAL9000
Post:
I use 7.6.33 with the manager from 6.10.48. I don't need a notices tab and I use the messages tab enough that having to open Event Log is simply annoying.
5) Message boards : Number crunching : Cruncher Down (Message 1842947)
Posted 2 days ago by Profile HAL9000
Post:
But I have never had a bad ASUS.


Mine went from bad to worse... received the RMA replacement, put everything together and then "the lights went on but no one was home": when it blew, it took out the AMD FX 8-core CPU. This is exactly what the MSI boards kept doing. And its warranty had expired.

So, about $300 (Canbucks) later as I bought a three-year in-store replacement warranty, I have a new CPU on the RMA board in case it dies the same way and fries another one. Funny... the fellow at the store mentioned just this, the some people just have more luck with certain brands of boards and swear by them whereas others have endless problems. I hope this was my only ASUS lemon.

I used to swear by ASUS boards and now I just swear at them. My lat Asus MB board was for a Core 2 Duo system ~2009. After replacing it with a Gigabyte MB & taking a hammer to the Asus MB I no longer had issues & felt better.
Over the years I've transitioned from Abit > Asus > Gigabyte. With the occasional Intel or Supermicro MB. I do have an ASRock MB I bought not to long ago and I have to say their quality has gone up quite a bit since Asus sold them off.
6) Message boards : Number crunching : AMD 290X vs RX 480 for seti/ DUAL NVIDIA 1070 vs Single 1080 (Message 1842940)
Posted 2 days ago by Profile HAL9000
Post:
Heres my final dilemma. I got saved up to buy two gtx 1080 or 4 rx480. Or three 1070. Also got the rx480 does the 4gb vs 8gb make big difference?
What should I do?

Either 4GB or 8GB will be fine for SETI@home work. The mos I have used for a SETI@home task on my R9 390X is ~400MB and that was when using command line options that increased the memory usage of the app.

If you want to go with Nvidia or Radeon you can pick between better FLOPs per Watt or FLOPs per $.
On paper the specs look something like this:
GTX 1080 8228 GFLOPs, 180W, $700 x2 = 16456 GFLOPs, 360W, $1400 or 45.71 GFLOPs/W, 11.75 GFLOPs/$
GTX 1070 5783 GFLOPs, 150W, $450 x 3 = 17349 GFLOPs, 450W, $1350 or 38.55 GFLOPs/W, 12.85 GFLOPs/$
RX 480 5161 GFLOPs, 150W, $200 x 4 = 20644 GFLOPs, 600W, $800 or 34.40 GFLOPs/W, 25.80 GFLOPs/$

In practice there isn't a direct correlation between FLOPS and doing SETI@home work. Especially between different vendors. Sometimes it isn't even useful to compare different generations of GPUs this way.
You can have a look at Shaggie's GPU FLOPS: Theory vs Reality thread to see a performance comparison using credit.

This doesn't tell the complete story for all GPUs. As there are so many different manufactures and app configuration options.
In comparing my R9 390X to hosts with a R9 Fury X and tasks with a similar AR. They are pretty much on par. With the worst case being my R9 390X about 9% slower than a hosts with highly optimized settings.

EDIT:
I was just comparing the run times of Michel Makhlouta's 1070's to my R9 390X. It looks like my 390 completes similar tasks bout 25% faster and the 390 is only rated about 2% higher in GFLOPS. GTX 1070 - 5783 GFLOPs vs R9 390X - 5913 GFLOPs
7) Message boards : Number crunching : Panic Mode On (104) Server Problems? (Message 1842762)
Posted 3 days ago by Profile HAL9000
Post:
[. . Hey guys,
. . Can I do a quick poll?
. . What setting is in your "get additional days of work field"? Both for those getting work and those having problems getting any.
Stephen.

7.6.22 with no issues, setting are:
Store at least 10 days of work
Store up to an additional 10 days of work

Doesn't matter in my case, as those parameters are never enforced.
The hard limit of 100 tasks per CPU and 100 tasks per GPU keep me limited to a total of less than 12 hours work for most of the machines here.

My default BOINC web settings are also 10/10 days of work. I did have a mix of 7.2.42, 7.4.42, 7.6.23, & 7.6.33 on my machines, but recently switched all of the Windows machines to 7.6.33. I wasn't having any issues getting work. I just wanted to bring them all up to the same version.
8) Message boards : Number crunching : Panic Mode On (104) Server Problems? (Message 1842525)
Posted 5 days ago by Profile HAL9000
Post:
My settings are yes, yes, and yes.

That appears to be it.
Try changing them to accept v8 work only and see if they stop getting work for a while.

Settings that used to work, no longer do. Sound familiar?

Most of my machines are in a venue that is set to only allows MB v8 work. I have 2 hosts that are in a venue with AP v7 enabled.
So that setting hasn't effected my ability to get work.
9) Message boards : Number crunching : BOINC odd network traffic (Message 1842415)
Posted 5 days ago by Profile HAL9000
Post:
Doing some tests I can confirm that resource monitor does show increased network activity depending on what is being viewed in BOINC Manager.
Transfers or disk tab
http://i.imgur.com/iGSCt0v.png
Projects tab
http://i.imgur.com/MPcwuVG.png
Tasks tab: View active
http://i.imgur.com/iJ9iMZ4.png
Tasks tab: View all
http://i.imgur.com/7c5WLwQ.png

However I could not confirm the displayed activity effected my network/internet bandwidth.
I restricted the internet bandwidth for the machine I was testing to 1024KB in my router.
With BOINC set to view all in the task tab I went to speedtest.net and ran a test.
Resource monitor displayed 2MB Network I/O & the results for the speedtest were 1MB/1MB.
10) Message boards : Number crunching : Panic Mode On (104) Server Problems? (Message 1842398)
Posted 5 days ago by Profile HAL9000
Post:
In checking the logs across my machines for the past few days the only time I have got a Scheduler request completed: got 0 new tasks response it was followed by This computer has reached a limit on tasks in progress.
11) Message boards : Number crunching : RAC & Badges (Message 1842166)
Posted 6 days ago by Profile HAL9000
Post:
As far as I'm aware badges are based on total contribution not RAC.

No, it's RAC.
I'm often going from no badge, to now a silver badge, and in a week or so if I continue to crunch like this a gold badge, all depending on how much I crunch. When I only run my tablet for a while, my badge quickly goes down to silver, and then bronze, and then disappear totally.

For example, this guy has a bronze badge with only Total credit 549,922, but a RAC of 1,195.67: https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/show_user.php?userid=10259455

And this guy with a Total credit 7,327,754, but a RAC of 1,039.18, doesn't have any badge at all: https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/show_user.php?userid=149109

Viewing Top participants by total credit will currently show similar information. With some users without and a mix a gold and silver badges.

Alto worth noting in that sometimes the script that updates the RAC badges doesn't run or gets stuck. So if you are near a transition from one to the other your badge may not update until someone pokes the script.
12) Message boards : Number crunching : RAC & Badges (Message 1841964)
Posted 7 days ago by Profile HAL9000
Post:
Last week you could get a Silver badge with a RAC in the high 5k, now you need mid 7k. Did I miss the memo?

Since the number of users and their participation is variable there will never be a fixed value for the % badges.
13) Message boards : Number crunching : Looking for used laptops (Message 1841413)
Posted 9 days ago by Profile HAL9000
Post:
GPUs take power from the 6 or 8 pin power cables (if GPU has them) plus up to 75 Watts from the PCI bus.

That why when you use PCIe extender cables they require (most of them) the additional power to be supplied from either a 4 pin Molex (HD power plug) or SATA power plug. The included SATA to 4 pin Molex adaptor is just to make sure you have an available power source.

I imagine they do that because most new PSUs have more SATA power connectors than 4-pin molex. At least that is the case with all of the PSUs I've bought in the past several years.
14) Message boards : Number crunching : Pine A64+ 2GB running 24/7 (Message 1840773)
Posted 13 days ago by Profile HAL9000
Post:
If you have the time that would be great.

I'm at work right now. But when I get home, I'll power it down, move it to a power meter, restart everything, and let it run for a few hours. Once power consumption stabilizes at a constant running temperature, I'll post an average reading from the meter. It will be just the Pine A64+ It will not have any loads from fans on it. The fan will be on a separate circuit.

Ok. I let it run overnight and it is now pulling down 5.7 Watts according to the meter. https://flic.kr/p/QNCWq2
[img ]https://c2.staticflickr.com/1/563/32032890761_50085bd8b2_n.jpg[/img]

Since you probably can't run it 100% here without the fan, you should add what the fan draws too, to that.

A typical fan for these kind of devices normally runs in the 0.25-0.5W range.
15) Message boards : Number crunching : Question about using 12 volt dc fans instead of 24. (Message 1840701)
Posted 13 days ago by Profile HAL9000
Post:
I have a UPS with the cooling fan going bad. It is an APC su2200net and it uses an 80mm 24 volt DC fan. My question is can I somehow replace it with dual 12 volt fans of approximately the same current draw in series. This should look like a 24 volt device to the power supply in the UPS but would it cause me any electrical problems to do so? I would just stack the fans one on top of the other since I don't want to cut any holes into the UPS.

It should work well enough so long as you have two matching fans. Two different fans would work but you'd have to some math to calculate the voltage that would be present for each fan. You can look up a voltage diver calculator to make it easier.
Since fans tend not to be precision engineered to be exactly the same one will likely run a slightly different speed and you may get some odd acoustical artifacts with the fans stacked
16) Message boards : Number crunching : Discrepancy between BOINC crunching options for laptop and smartphones (Message 1840686)
Posted 13 days ago by Profile HAL9000
Post:
Both laptop and smartphones/tablet devices are battery-powered ones.
One could think they should have similar abilities for power-related crunching configurations.

But nope.
BOINC for laptops (actually, usual Winx64 one cause no special version):

- has ability to stop crunching if on battery.
- can't operate until battery x% empty.

So, it's not possible to implement crunching during short power cord unplugging (in case crunching on battery disallowed). Tasks will be suspended/resumed with corresponding overhead.

BOINC for smartphones:

- can operate until battery x% empty
-can't detect if power cord plugged (! this implemented in NativeBOINC of course, but that app incompatible with new devices)

So, if battery discharged enough but phone placed on charger, BOINC will not continue until battery will be charged until x%. That can take few hours of inefficient idling through the night.

Can we have BOINC options that will consistently implement power management of battery containing devices?

That is:
1) separate states for plugged/battery computations
2) separate state being on battery x% discharged.

That is, merge abilities of both BOINC versions, nothing really new required.

This will allow efficiently configure for operation in both mentioned scenarios.

I think power cord detection for Android devices can vary based on manufacture. For me the BOINC power options for detecting when plugged in and charging from the wall charger or a USB charging port work.
http://i.imgur.com/eQf10hn.png If a devices doesn't support the USB charging spec then setting the option for wall socket may not work I would guess.
I don't recall if only Battery is checked if computing stops when connected to a charger. I'm not currently running any projects on my Android devices.

The lack of a minimum battery level in the standard version of BOINC might be helpful to implement in the next version of BOINC. Since there are now Windows x86 tablets that run a standard OS.
17) Message boards : Number crunching : AMD AMD Radeon (sic) (Message 1840665)
Posted 13 days ago by Profile HAL9000
Post:
I was working on doing another GPU performance scan and noticed that the Coprocessor field for some hosts has "AMD AMD" eg this host reads "AMD AMD Radeon (TM) R9 Fury Series (4096MB) OpenCL: 2.0"

I suspect this is a new problem.

That is normal behavior. The BOINC server displays Vendor and then GPU Name. The OpenCL detection method for nonCAL GPUs uses the Board name value from OpenCL.


Also ever since Intel GPUs have been supported they have been displayed in the similar way.
INTEL Intel(R) HD Graphics 530 (3224MB) OpenCL: 2.0
18) Message boards : Number crunching : Driver Restart History? (Message 1840405)
Posted 14 days ago by Profile HAL9000
Post:
As mentioned the Windows Event Log will have the record.
http://i.imgur.com/5KWvT4f.png
I believe the event ID you want to look for is 4101, but since you know exactly when your crashed happened you can look at the events for that time period to find it if the ID is not 4101.
You can right click and select to filter the view by ID if you want to find all of the crash events that are logged.
19) Message boards : Number crunching : Pine A64+ 2GB running 24/7 (Message 1840236)
Posted 15 days ago by Profile HAL9000
Post:
Glad to see this sparked some conversation. If anyone has anything they want me to check on this setup for them, please let me know.

I can even put it on a power meter with or without the table fan if anyone really wants to know exact energy consumption data.

If you have the time that would be great.

I've been looking that some of these devices for a while, but their actual efficiency when when running SETI@home work is typically worse than a desktop.
I normally calculate watt hours per task and compare efficiency that way.
My host 5837483 with an i5-4670K runs 4 MB tasks at once in about an hour while using between 97-102w
So if I use 102w and 60min run time.
(102w * 60min)/60)/4 = 25.5Wh per MB task
Before I added a GPU to my low power J1900 host. It would run 4 MB CPU tasks in about 6 hours while using 15-16w.
(16w * 360min)/60)/4 = 24Wh per MB task

Numbers I have from a Raspberry Pi2. To run 4 MB tasks took about 50 hours while using 2.5w.
(2.5w * 3000min)/60)/4 = 31.25Wh per MB task

Since the site lists that a 10w(5v@2A) PSU is needed for the Pine64+ I have a feeling it may have power usage in the 4-5w range. While that is low with task run times of about 35 hours that would be 35-43Wh per MB task.
20) Message boards : Number crunching : Android tablet computation slowing down with screen off (Message 1840232)
Posted 15 days ago by Profile HAL9000
Post:
Most probably it's tablet's firmware.
I encountered 2 different tablet models already that completely stop computations with screen OFF.
Would be good to decouple CPU throttling and screen light OFF, but seems on those models they bound together.
Not all Android devices behave in such way.

I found that out with my first android phone. A MyTouch 3G Slide. It would go from a max of 600MHz to only 300MHz with the screen off. So I run it with the brightness turned all the way down. My Samsung Galaxy S4 and Tab S2 seem to run full speed with the screen off or on with BOINC projects.

There might be CyanogenMods for some devices that would disable or allow the user to control the CPU throttling.


Next 20


 
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SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.