Posts by SciManStev


log in
1) Message boards : Politics : First Scientific Proof Of God Found (Message 1546519)
Posted 4 hours ago by Profile SciManStev
OK. Let me be a bit more direct. By understanding how the Bible got here and why, what it says, and how it contradicts itself, it makes decoding human DNA from such a questionable source, impossible except in your own mind.

Steve
2) Message boards : Politics : First Scientific Proof Of God Found (Message 1546505)
Posted 4 hours ago by Profile SciManStev
you need one of the hand-written originals


As I pointed out by linking you to Bart Ehrman's research, there are no original texts. Only copies of copies, and they were changing constantly.

I know you only looked at two minutes of each video, so you didn't get the evidence. This is true for both the old and new testaments. Bart looked at the oldest texts in existence, then the newer ones to develop a time line of what was added and when. Many times he can even explain why.

The Old Testament had at least 40 different authors, and was written over 1600 years. The new testament had thousands of authors, and evolved as church leaders tried to explain the inconsistencies and differences. It didn't even become a Bible until about 300 years after the time Jesus was alive.

There was so much evidence you passed up, because you only saw two minutes of each video, and decided you didn't like what you heard.

Steve
3) Message boards : Politics : First Scientific Proof Of God Found (Message 1545063)
Posted 3 days ago by Profile SciManStev
I have my money on Bart Ehrman. He has done the research, and isn't teaching theology, but history.

What you claim as your research is the biggest pile of nonsense I have ever read.

That is my opinion.

Steve
4) Message boards : Politics : First Scientific Proof Of God Found (Message 1544872)
Posted 3 days ago by Profile SciManStev
I think the actual answer is much more simple for a change.
Did you watch the second video I posted?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNn7b_kz9dM

This describes the process that the scribes changed the texts. There were both accidental and deliberate changes. When a certain manuscript went to one section of the region, future copies from that region were changed based on what they were given, and didn't have the changes that went to other regions.

There were numerous meetings between theologians arguing about the different versions. Which ever version won out became Orthodox, and the versions that did not win out became Heretic.

Jesus was not originally though of as God or even the Son of God. That came later as rulers attempted to unify their subjects.

This link describes that process, once again in video, so you don't have to read. It is about 37 minutes long.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yte-ad6Y31s

Finally, this is as a more direct explanation of who changed the Bible and why.
It is quite revealing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RduigO1dsrk

Steve
5) Message boards : Politics : How I learned about God - David C. Pack (Message 1544258)
Posted 4 days ago by Profile SciManStev
Here is more, just over 13 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNn7b_kz9dM

Steve
6) Message boards : Politics : How I learned about God - David C. Pack (Message 1544254)
Posted 4 days ago by Profile SciManStev
Batter Up,
I have never seen Jimmy Swaggart in action. And I don't want to see him in action either. But i'm glad you enjoy watching him.

Yes, I agree with you, David C. Pack can be very long winded and doesn't actually give you nice quick straight answers. Its like he has scripted his videos to make you watch the full 30 minutes to get the answer you are looking for. And you don't always get the answer.

Either way, he is the best I could find on Youtube. And even though he is very long winded, he does something that other TV style preachers don't do - He backs up his statements with quotes from the Bible that you can check. And secondly, David C. Pack decodes out some of the very complex stuff that is described as Prophesy. And that is why I watch his videos. I need him to chain the stuff together and explain what the Bible is trying to tell you.

This is one of the few forums where sock puppets are permitted. That is usually an immediate ban even if they behave.

???? I don't know what that means?

John.

Here is what I have been trying to demonstrate. This is a video, 8 minutes and 14 seconds long, by Bart Erhman. If the source of Christianity has been proven to be so flawed, how can one make so many determinations based on it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ln-S7ZraUc

Steve
7) Message boards : Politics : Afterlife? (Message 1540574)
Posted 11 days ago by Profile SciManStev
All I do is follow the evidence as best I can, without caring where it leads. If I am wrong, then I will reverse course, and admit it. If I don't know, then that is a valid answer also.

Steve
8) Message boards : Politics : Afterlife? (Message 1540459)
Posted 11 days ago by Profile SciManStev
The why are we here question does have an answer.
OK got it; it happens. You don't have a clue how it happened or what will happen next. You say there is no proof so it cannot be. There is not one shred of proof that ET is out there yet you search for him. Why scoff at those who search for a reason for being?

I am trying to be as non-offensive as possible, and still give as correct an answer as I can.

It has been demonstrated that people, and in fact children try to put a purpose behind events. Recently, I saw a show that showed a craggy rock and some lions. The children were asked if the craggy rock was there so the lions could scratch their backs, or was it there naturally. I forget the exact number but at least 70% said it was there to scratch the lions backs.

This may have been a useful adaptation, as early man looked for resources, and decided that they could be used in ways other than simple objects. Even now, as I take on some home project, I will find a new purpose for some old piece of wood I was ready to discard.

I am not trying to scoff at others, as believing in an after life can be both helpful in remembering a loved one, or very dangerous in believing that if you blow yourself up and kill innocent people you will be rewarded with 72 virgins.

As for ET, I am going on the high probability that we are not alone, but I have no delusions. The search may never pan out, or it may take thousands or even tens of thousands of years if we discover anything. Given the current very limited way we able to search, I am not holding my breath, but I am a part of that search. In addition to that search, I have come to know people from all over the world, many of which I consider very strong friends. Some think the way I do, and some do not, but they are my friends just the same.

I realize I may be treading a fine line, but my intent is not to scoff at those who think differently than I do, but to point out the best answers I can, based on the information I have available. That information does not take sides, either for the grieving mothers, or desperate fanatics.

Actually, I would do anything I am capable of to help those I consider friends, regardless of how they think compared to me. Helping anyone is actually quite rewarding.

Steve
9) Message boards : Politics : Afterlife? (Message 1540387)
Posted 11 days ago by Profile SciManStev
When I am gone, I haven't seen the slightest bit of evidence to suggest that I will ever have known that I was once alive.
Why are we here. You don't know any more than any man who ever lived why. We are here though and that is pretty amazing IMHO. If it gives some comfort to think their dead child is in heaven instead of being a nothing so what?

It is not my intent to remove the comfort some feel for lost ones. If it brings them comfort, then I agree it is not a problem.

The why are we here question does have an answer. This is my interpretation.

If you roll 10 million dice, one number will come up. Hence the formation of the universe.

If you roll 10 million dice in that universe, one number will come up, but it is still within that universe. Hence the formation of the Milky Way.

If you roll 10 million more dice within that galaxy, one number will come up, but is in a section of the galaxy without an excess of radiation. Hence the local group of stars.

If you keep going you will get to earth, a planet the right size, not to close nor to far from our sun. Hence surface water can exist.

A few more steps into it, and each roll of 10 million dice provides a number, but contained within the constraints of the previous rolls. Meaning a roll of the dice will not have me being born on Venus.

This works, over time to contain where or how the randomness occurs. If you take it to its end game, then roll the billions of dice when we were conceived. With the billions of sperm involved, some may have been in the right place, some might have not. Dad may have Oooed, and Mom may have Awed, at a particular time that rolled the dice once again, but after all is said and done, one number will come up, within the constraints for human DNA.

Why are we here?
I see it as the result of random chance, acting over billions of years, confining and restraining where and how the results of those chances occur.

In a way, it is like the electron orbit of an atom. We don't know where it is at any given moment, but we know it is within the electron shell.

Steve
10) Message boards : Politics : "Great Grand Parents Maths!" (Message 1540349)
Posted 11 days ago by Profile SciManStev
What about the spouses that died, and were replaced by another? What about the spouses that had relations with many others? I think it is much more complicated than some simplistic calculations. One father could potentially have hundreds of children, with dozens of different women. In early history, I wouldn't begin to decipher who was with who.

Steve
11) Message boards : Politics : Afterlife? (Message 1540284)
Posted 11 days ago by Profile SciManStev
Here is what I see.
When a person is born, they start a change that will continue over their entire life. When they are young, they think one way, and that thinking changes as they age. There is no root "You", but a representation based on your particular stage of life, and countless environmental and chemical factors.

When a person uses an antidepressant, their way of thinking changes.

When a person drinks coffee, or alcohol, their thinking changes.

When a person takes a hallucinogen, their very essence changes.

When someone survives a brain injury, or a stoke, the person is forever changed.

If a piece of the brain is removed, that particular functionality is forever lost.

However, if you cut the whole head off and the person dies, then the soul floats up to heaven like nothing ever happened..... That just makes no sense to me at all.

The brain is not something that just does all your thinking. It is you. You can transplant many organs, but if it were possible to do a brain transplant, "You" would be lost, and the person whose brain was the donor would continue in your body.

However unlikely, I could see the possibility, in keeping a living head connected to machines for some lengthy period of time, and it would still be a "You", although the though processes would be a result of environmental and chemical stimuli.

In some cases, when a person is near death, chemicals are going wild in the brain, causing neurons to fire is unusual ways. When a person's brain actually dies, there is no more person.

What is being dead like?
Exactly what it was like the billions of years before the person was born.
I was completely unaware of the formation of the universe, or even this planet.
When I am gone, I haven't seen the slightest bit of evidence to suggest that I will ever have known that I was once alive.

Steve
12) Message boards : Politics : "Great Grand Parents Maths!" (Message 1540277)
Posted 11 days ago by Profile SciManStev
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/12/131204-human-fossil-dna-spain-denisovan-cave/

New tests on human bones hidden in a Spanish cave for some 400,000 years set a new record for the oldest human DNA sequence ever decoded—and may scramble the scientific picture of our early relatives.


Steve
13) Message boards : Politics : First Scientific Proof Of God Found (Message 1539195)
Posted 13 days ago by Profile SciManStev
So much for genetic diversity.
I guess we are all in-breeds.
No wonder there are so many people that are blind, deaf, autistic, or physically deformed......

Steve
14) Message boards : Politics : Religion - is one better than another? (Message 1537567)
Posted 16 days ago by Profile SciManStev
This is a fantastic story by Julia Sweeny of how she became an atheist.
I have mentioned it in links previously, but this is the full 2 hours on YouTube.
This is entertaining, logical, thought provoking, and just good.

If you have the two hours, it is definitely worth it.

Letting Go of God

Steve
15) Message boards : Politics : First Scientific Proof Of God Found (Message 1535611)
Posted 20 days ago by Profile SciManStev

I haven't read 'The Epic of Gilgamesh' but I believe the flood story is more or less a direct copy?
It is known the sea level rose about 300ft after last ice age, several town and villages have been found off the coast in the Mediterranean. Another theory is the land bridges across Bosporus and between med and Atlantic were breached causing widespread flooding and destruction. May well have been several thousand years of folk tales before anything was written down


Yes, you are correct!
I am still at work, and can't respond as I would like.
The bottom line is following the geological evidence.

Steve
16) Message boards : Politics : First Scientific Proof Of God Found (Message 1535588)
Posted 20 days ago by Profile SciManStev
When I was young, I liked Greek Mythology. I enjoyed reading the stories.
What I am learning in the present day, is how some of those stories were constructed. Is there any physical evidence behind them, or are they complete fiction. Many of the shows I watch, provide evidence for connections of events.

I also watch a lot of how the earth and universe were formed. I studied music when I was a boy, and learned piano, clarinet, and guitar. I am not very good any more, but I gained an understanding of how music is composed. I was drum major of my high school band, and student conductor. I have also studied martial arts for close to 40 years.

Learning is not confined to just science, but being well rounded in today's world is a bonus.

When we look back at Egyptian tombs, there is a lot we can learn about the culture. One interesting thing I learned about the Spynx, is that the wear of the stone, was actually caused by water, not wind. The Spynx has been completely buried several times, and unearthed later. Because of the water erosion, the age of the Spynx is actually around 12,000 years, as the climate was wet back then. By making measurements of the Spynx's head, it has been determined that it was carved from a person of a different race than the Pharo Chefron, which it has been thought to represent.

The walls of Jerico came down because it is on a geological fault. They have been rocked many times in the past by earth quakes.

Science leads the way to discovery. It tests, and retests itself, and therefor self corrects. Studying the past, using archeology is a great way to weed the fact from the fiction. Large events leave records. Tsunami waves leave sediment where there normally was none, and it can be dated.

Evidence leads to more accurate conclusions.
As to your research, the book you are using is highly questionable as fact, and I backed that up with references to those books. What DNA results would you get from a Russian Bible, or one written in Ancient Greek? As Winternight pointed out, DNA hadn't been discovered or named for close to 2000 years after the time of Jesus. It makes no sense at all to pull code from ancient text under those conditions.

Steve
17) Message boards : Politics : First Scientific Proof Of God Found (Message 1535564)
Posted 20 days ago by Profile SciManStev
I am 100% Atheist, not a closet Christian.
I have also watched TV shows on Biblical stories. It seems the story of Noah, was likely copied from another story several hundred years before.

Also, there are interesting similarities between the life of Jesus, and Odysseus from Homer's Odyssey. It almost seems much was copied from the earlier story 800 years prior. This is certainly not confirmed, but one TV show did point out the similarities.

I have no problem learning about and understanding history. By understanding history, I can better understand the present. I can discuss things with others, and not be completely ignorant of the discussion.

I assure you, there is no religious belief in me at all. I have no problem with others that do, and many are my friends. I do have a strong comprehension of science, and I learn new things every day. Every time I am wrong, is an opportunity to get it right the next time.

Knowledge is power.

Steve
18) Message boards : Politics : First Scientific Proof Of God Found (Message 1535528)
Posted 20 days ago by Profile SciManStev

This is also what I meant with this book.

Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why

....

The editorial reviews are copyrighted, so I won't copy them here, but they can be read on the web page. This book was fascinating, along with his many other books. I highly recommend them to anyone who wants to know how the Bible was constructed, and what it is really saying.

Steve

Steve,
Your a self professed Man of Science. So why are you reading books about the Bible, and recommending that we read them too?

John.

Because they are written as history. These are not teaching religion in the traditional sense, but reality. Many people who read the Bible every week in church, have no idea how it was actually constructed. They usually don't teach that in church, as many of the followers would actually start thinking......

Steve
19) Message boards : Politics : First Scientific Proof Of God Found (Message 1535505)
Posted 20 days ago by Profile SciManStev
Play the game of "Telephone" where by one person reads a short paragraph to another and this is repeated a half dozen times to others. The resulting story that comes out the other end will look nothing like what went in. All of this was in the same language remember. Not so from Aramaic to Greek to Latin and so on.
Then there is the problem of slang, puns and poetic license in the original that doesn't translate well into English. Especially when the original Greek was a translation from Hebrew. We get Jesus riding into Jerusalem on two donkeys.

The Hebrew said;
Zechariah 9:9
“Behold, your King is coming to you;
He is just and having salvation,
Lowly and riding on a donkey,
A colt, the foal of a donkey.
In Hebrew that was poetic to say the same thing two ways.

Mathew translated it;
Matthew 21:1-11
The disciples went and did just as Jesus had instructed them,
and brought the donkey and the colt, and laid their coats on them;
Mathew didn't fully understand Hebrew poetry.


This is also what I meant with this book.

Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why

This is the book description.
For almost 1,500 years, the New Testament manuscripts were copied by hand––and mistakes and intentional changes abound in the competing manuscript versions. Religious and biblical scholar Bart Ehrman makes the provocative case that many of our widely held beliefs concerning the divinity of Jesus, the Trinity, and the divine origins of the Bible itself are the results of both intentional and accidental alterations by scribes.

In this compelling and fascinating book, Ehrman shows where and why changes were made in our earliest surviving manuscripts, explaining for the first time how the many variations of our cherished biblical stories came to be, and why only certain versions of the stories qualify for publication in the Bibles we read today. Ehrman frames his account with personal reflections on how his study of the Greek manuscripts made him abandon his once ultra–conservative views of the Bible.


The editorial reviews are copyrighted, so I won't copy them here, but they can be read on the web page. This book was fascinating, along with his many other books. I highly recommend them to anyone who wants to know how the Bible was constructed, and what it is really saying.

Steve
20) Message boards : Politics : First Scientific Proof Of God Found (Message 1534929)
Posted 21 days ago by Profile SciManStev
Definition of Faith - strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.

There is no evidence that there are any gods or supernatural beings. Therefore it is the religious people, like yourself, that believe in nothing.

I don't believe, I look for evidence and that is sadly lacking in all religions. If there is no evidence then theories or beliefs cannot be proven.

Therefore from the definition of Faith, as there is no proof, Atheists do not have Faith.

+1

Steve


Next 20

Copyright © 2014 University of California