app_info.xml, aistubs and other confusing things

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Profile Brent Norman Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
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Message 1934780 - Posted: 10 May 2018, 6:06:44 UTC - in response to Message 1934774.  

. . Yes, they are aistub files.
OK, that's why. The app_info.xml can ONLY have one <app_info> and </app_info> at the beginning and end of the file. Once </app_info> is seen, everything else would be ignored.

The aistub files in my config have spaces in them, not tabs. Since it is a different parser been used to import them into BOINC, who knows what it would do with extra carriage returns or tabs in it. You would have to look carefully at what comes out in the app_info.xml file.
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Message 1934784 - Posted: 10 May 2018, 7:16:29 UTC

Oh. My. God.

What a lot of false information in there.

I'm not awake yet, but:

Multiple version numbers are fine, in context.
White space for formatting is fine. It's there so that human beings can see clearly that a beginning is matched with an end.
Spaces make a consistent display in every editor, tabs are tool dependent. I prefer spaces, but either works.
AImerge removes the contiguous </app_info><app_info> that a simple concatenate would leave behind.
Caches are usually discarded because you leave out the section that defines the <app_version> they need.
Every file that is named in an app_info file has to be present in the project directory. Other files can look after themselves.

When I'm working on an installer, I keep each AIstub in a separate folder, together with the files named in it - and nothing else. I never type more than two or three characters at a time - everything else is done by copy and paste, especially file names.

Always work on a copy of a file, never on the original.

That'll do for now - I'll try to read the file and guess what the Event Log might have said that you haven't told us. Later, after much more coffee.
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Message 1934789 - Posted: 10 May 2018, 7:53:08 UTC
Last modified: 10 May 2018, 7:58:41 UTC

Brent is right, there should be only one <app_info> at the beginning of app_info.xml. and only one </app_info> at the very tail end of the app_info.xml file. Using the AImerge command is suppose to strip the <app_info> and </app_info> from the aistub file and merge the rest into the app_info.xml though.

I believe that my app_info.xml uses spaces also. When I copied mine to here I was in Linux and used Gedit to copy it and when I pasted it here it stripped all the spacing for some reason. If you need to see it with the spacing intact, let me know and I will repost it with all the proper spacing.

On your SoG aistub I would remove this:
<file_info>
<name>MultiBeam_Kernels_r3584.cl</name>
</file_info
It is not needed.

On your AP r2887 you don't need these either:
<file_info>
<name>AstroPulse_Kernels_r2887.cl</name>
</file_info>

<file_ref>
<file_name>AstroPulse_Kernels_r2887.cl</file_name>
</file_ref>

Personally I would get rid of the extra carriage returns for line spacings, it might make it a little easier to read but it might also be messing things up with AImerge???? Not sure if spacing is all that important?

I can't stress this enough, Run Your Cache Dry Before You Edit Your app_info.xml !!!!
With a dry cache you will only need a single entry in your SoG r3584 aistub for version 8.22.

Have you actually extracted the downloaded files to your Set@home directory?

Hope this helps some.
Bruce
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Message 1934793 - Posted: 10 May 2018, 8:15:52 UTC - in response to Message 1934789.  

On your SoG aistub I would remove this:
   <file_info>
        <name>MultiBeam_Kernels_r3584.cl</name>
    </file_info

It is not needed.
Personally, I think it would be better practice to version-control the .cl files, but I know Raistmer doesn't - he used to keep tripping himself up during testing, by forgetting that one. For a stable production environment, I think it would be better to include it - it helps to remind you what to update, when you come back to it two years later.

Note that in your selective quoting, you lost a '>' at the end. That's another class of error it's all too easy to make if one doesn't allow oneself enough time to work slowly and methodically.

On your AP r2887 you don't need these either:
    <file_info>
        <name>AstroPulse_Kernels_r2887.cl</name>
    </file_info>

        <file_ref>
            <file_name>AstroPulse_Kernels_r2887.cl</file_name>
        </file_ref>
And by singling those out separately, you've probably found the smoking gun and saved me a lot of work :-)

For any given file, you need to have either both a <file_info> and a <file_ref>, or neither. SoG has one, but not the other. There's probably a line in the Event Log about that. Consistency is critical, whichever route you take.
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Message 1934799 - Posted: 10 May 2018, 8:56:03 UTC

Thanks for catching this - </file_info.
Must not have had it over far enough when I copied it. Just goes to show you that a typo can bite anyone in the butt if they are not careful.

Your method for aistubs is very sound and very thought out. Glad I don't have to keep track of everything that goes into the installer!
I hope Stephen can get his app_info.xml straightened out. Just hope I am not leading him astray with my minimum type approach.
Bruce
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Message 1934820 - Posted: 10 May 2018, 14:33:13 UTC - in response to Message 1934784.  

Oh. My. God.

What a lot of false information in there.

. . That is why I started this thread ... to try and make sense of what is right and what is wrong when editing app_info.xml. I know it is a task that is daunting to many volunteers who have been doing this much longer than I have.


I'm not awake yet, but:

Multiple version numbers are fine, in context.
White space for formatting is fine. It's there so that human beings can see clearly that a beginning is matched with an end.
Spaces make a consistent display in every editor, tabs are tool dependent. I prefer spaces, but either works.
AImerge removes the contiguous </app_info><app_info> that a simple concatenate would leave behind.
Caches are usually discarded because you leave out the section that defines the <app_version> they need.
Every file that is named in an app_info file has to be present in the project directory. Other files can look after themselves.

. . I like the idea of keeping it coherent so I am happy to stick with using spaces for ordering the text. And I feel vindicated that working with the aistubs is the safer approach. I was careful to copy all but the readme files from the distro into the project folder so all files should be present .


When I'm working on an installer, I keep each AIstub in a separate folder, together with the files named in it - and nothing else. I never type more than two or three characters at a time - everything else is done by copy and paste, especially file names.
Always work on a copy of a file, never on the original.

I am working on copies of the distro aistubs in a separate folder but they are all together, I might take your suggestion and move them into separate folders for each one. I have been copying where necessary and only typing to correct small details in file names etc. (like r3557 to r3584).


That'll do for now - I'll try to read the file and guess what the Event Log might have said that you haven't told us. Later, after much more coffee.


. . Thanks for your input. I read your later message about file listings needing to be matched in both the <file_info> and <file-ref> sections, I will correct that right away.

Stephen

. .
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Message 1934822 - Posted: 10 May 2018, 14:52:27 UTC - in response to Message 1934789.  


Personally I would get rid of the extra carriage returns for line spacings, it might make it a little easier to read but it might also be messing things up with AImerge???? Not sure if spacing is all that important?

Actually the merge part is working OK, the extra spacing does not seem to have any bad effect.


I can't stress this enough, Run Your Cache Dry Before You Edit Your app_info.xml !!!!
With a dry cache you will only need a single entry in your SoG r3584 aistub for version 8.22.
Have you actually extracted the downloaded files to your Set@home directory?
Hope this helps some.


. . Yes running the cache dry would be safer but tedious as it would mean preparing for each attempt several hours in advance by setting 'no new tasks'. I am quite happy to have one extraneous <app_ver> entry to overcome the issue of retaining existing cached WUs, and while the ghost recovery process is itself tedious because you have to repeat it over and over again for each 20 tasks that have been ghosted, I can use it at my leisure later and recover the whole haunted house within a week without too much strain. My apologies to wingmen for the delay of several days, it does damage my "same day service' policy. :) Also having tasks ready to run gives me a quick answer to the question "Did I get it right?" ...

. . But thanks muchly for your input, your extracts from my aistubs have raised a very important point that Richard was quick to pick up and hopefully will solve the whole thing.

. . I now know that when listing a file for the <app> it must appear in both <file_info> and <file_ref> sections, definitely worth knowing. Sometimes learning can be a little painful but it is still worthwhile :)

Stephen

:)
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Message 1934825 - Posted: 10 May 2018, 15:00:15 UTC - in response to Message 1934799.  

Thanks for catching this - </file_info.
Must not have had it over far enough when I copied it. Just goes to show you that a typo can bite anyone in the butt if they are not careful.

Your method for aistubs is very sound and very thought out. Glad I don't have to keep track of everything that goes into the installer!
I hope Stephen can get his app_info.xml straightened out. Just hope I am not leading him astray with my minimum type approach.


. . Nope, all input happily accepted. Now that I am tinkering with app_info.xml (after several years of avoiding even thinking about it) I like the idea of putting it on a diet, and the more discussion there is, the better I can refine my approach. Hopefully it might help others too.

Stephen

:)
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Message 1934841 - Posted: 10 May 2018, 17:08:46 UTC

. . OK I stuffed up again, I was thinking of what I was doing and had done and forgot what the Lunatics installer did when I had to rerun it. Having previously copied the app files into the project folder I forget they had been removed so the first attempt with the rebuilt app_info failed because the files weren't there ... d'oh!

. . OK no longer needing to accommodate version 820 I removed it from the app_info. I then copied the files across from the install directory to the project folder. Still says files not there, so for a while I played copy files and get told it's not there. It was like something was undoing everything I was doing. For some reason the r3584 distro aistub calls the command line file "mb_cmdline_win_x86_SSE3_OpenCL_NV.txt" instead of "mb_cmdline_win_x86_SSE3_OpenCL_NV_SOG.txt" so it was "Missing" I renamed it and then it was missing again, I looked and it was still there but with the SOG back. Then after about the 3rd or 4th restart of Boinc the CPU tasks disappeared as well despite not having a problem on the first few attempts. Finally after about the 3rd time renaming the cmdline file and 4th time copying the app files it started without those errors but still says there is no app for MB_ver8. There has also been a syntax error each time but I thought that was because of the missing files, in the end it was still there but I don't know why, the link took me to a page about anonymous platform with no further info. Having trashed everything possible I gave up and again re-installed Lunatics. The first attempt to start was a fizzer but the second attempt was OK, except all the CPU tasks that had disappeared were back, I have never seen that before. Now I am going to bed.

Here is the app_info in its final form. Apart from removing whole app_ver sections and changing r3557 to r3584 I have not changed anything else, oh, except to balance the file_info and file_ref entries for the Multibeam_kernel_r3584 file. So I have no idea why it is giving a constant syntax error report.

<app_info> 


    <app>
        <name>setiathome_v8</name>
    </app>

    <file_info>
        <name>MB8_win_x64_AVX_VS2010_r3330.exe</name>
        <executable/>
    </file_info>
    <file_info>
        <name>libfftw3f-3-3-4_x64.dll</name>
	<executable/>
    </file_info>
    <file_info>
 	<name>mb_cmdline_win_x64_AVX_VS2010.txt</name>
    </file_info>

    <app_version>
        <app_name>setiathome_v8</app_name>
        <version_num>800</version_num>
        <platform>windows_x86_64</platform>
        <api_version>7.5.0</api_version>
        <file_ref>
            <file_name>MB8_win_x64_AVX_VS2010_r3330.exe</file_name>
            <main_program/>
        </file_ref>
        <file_ref>
            <file_name>libfftw3f-3-3-4_x64.dll</file_name>
        </file_ref>
        <file_ref>
            <file_name>mb_cmdline_win_x64_AVX_VS2010.txt</file_name>
            <open_name>mb_cmdline.txt</open_name>
        </file_ref>
    </app_version>


    <app>
        <name>astropulse_v7</name>
    </app>

    <file_info>
        <name>AP7_win_x86_SSE2_OpenCL_NV_r2887.exe</name>
        <executable/>
    </file_info>
    <file_info>
        <name>libfftw3f-3-3-4_x86.dll</name>
        <executable/>
    </file_info>
    <file_info>
        <name>AstroPulse_Kernels_r2887.cl</name>
    </file_info>
    <file_info>
        <name>ap_cmdline_win_x86_SSE2_OpenCL_NV.txt</name>
    </file_info>

    <app_version>
        <app_name>astropulse_v7</app_name>
        <version_num>710</version_num>
        <platform>windows_x86_64</platform>
        <avg_ncpus>0.04</avg_ncpus>
        <max_ncpus>0.2</max_ncpus>
        <plan_class>opencl_nvidia_100</plan_class>
       	<cmdline></cmdline>
        <coproc>
            <type>CUDA</type>
            <count>1</count>
        </coproc>
        <file_ref>
            <file_name>AP7_win_x86_SSE2_OpenCL_NV_r2887.exe</file_name>
            <main_program/>
        </file_ref>
        <file_ref>
            <file_name>libfftw3f-3-3-4_x86.dll</file_name>
        </file_ref>
        <file_ref>
            <file_name>AstroPulse_Kernels_r2887.cl</file_name>
        </file_ref>
        <file_ref>
            <file_name>ap_cmdline_win_x86_SSE2_OpenCL_NV.txt</file_name>
            <open_name>ap_cmdline.txt</open_name>
        </file_ref>
    </app_version>


    <app>
        <name>setiathome_v8</name>
    </app>

    <file_info>
        <name>MB8_win_x86_SSE3_OpenCL_NV_SoG_r3584.exe</name>
        <executable/>
    </file_info>
    <file_info>
        <name>libfftw3f-3-3-4_x86.dll</name>
        <executable/>
    </file_info>
    <file_info>
        <name>MultiBeam_Kernels_r3584.cl</name>
    </file_info>
    <file_info>
        <name>mb_cmdline_win_x86_SSE3_OpenCL_NV.txt</name>
    </file_info>

     <app_version>
        <app_name>setiathome_v8</app_name>
        <version_num>822</version_num>
        <platform>windows_intelx86</platform>
        <avg_ncpus>0.04</avg_ncpus>
        <max_ncpus>0.2</max_ncpus>
        <plan_class>opencl_nvidia_SoG</plan_class>
        	<cmdline></cmdline>	
        <coproc>
            <type>CUDA</type>
            <count>1</count>
        </coproc>
        <file_ref>
            <file_name>MB8_win_x86_SSE3_OpenCL_NV_SoG_r3584.exe</file_name>
            <main_program/>
        </file_ref>
        <file_ref>
            <file_name>libfftw3f-3-3-4_x86.dll</file_name>
        </file_ref>
        <file_ref>
            <file_name>MultiBeam_Kernels_r3584.cl</name>
        </file_ref>
        <file_ref>
            <file_name>mb_cmdline_win_x86_SSE3_OpenCL_NV.txt</file_name>
            <open_name>mb_cmdline.txt</open_name>
        </file_ref>
    </app_version>

</app_info>


. . Sorry that I am managing to screw things up so badly. I am reaching the point where I give up and go back to what was working so well.

Stephen

? ?
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Message 1934861 - Posted: 10 May 2018, 19:45:25 UTC - in response to Message 1934841.  
Last modified: 10 May 2018, 19:46:27 UTC

I don't know why you don't use my suggestion of opening .xml files with a browser. It took all of two seconds to check your text with Chrome and it spit out error found at line 126 column 57.


<file_name>MultiBeam_Kernels_r3584.cl</name>


You typoed the closing file_name.
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Message 1934903 - Posted: 10 May 2018, 21:12:22 UTC

For adding a new <file_ref> (or any multi-line element), I'd usually select and copy-paste an entire existing block, then do a second copy-paste to change the filename. Typing an XML tag by hand in anything except a search box is asking for trouble.
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Message 1934940 - Posted: 10 May 2018, 23:55:32 UTC - in response to Message 1934861.  
Last modified: 11 May 2018, 0:02:37 UTC

I don't know why you don't use my suggestion of opening .xml files with a browser. It took all of two seconds to check your text with Chrome and it spit out error found at line 126 column 57.


<file_name>MultiBeam_Kernels_r3584.cl</name>


You typoed the closing file_name.


. . I forgot that suggestion ... damn ... getting old ...

. . Because that entry was not there I cut/pasted the lines from the file_info section and changed the opening label but forgot to change the closing label. I wish I had remembered your helpful suggestion .. still trying to learn the best practice for this stuff ...

. . I also wish I fully followed the part of Richard's suggestion of having all files for each app in the editting directory ... I can see the sense in that.

Stephen

:(
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Message 1934943 - Posted: 11 May 2018, 0:05:02 UTC - in response to Message 1934903.  

For adding a new <file_ref> (or any multi-line element), I'd usually select and copy-paste an entire existing block, then do a second copy-paste to change the filename. Typing an XML tag by hand in anything except a search box is asking for trouble.


. . Yes it opens up the can of worms of human error. :(

Stephen
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Message 1934987 - Posted: 11 May 2018, 2:28:18 UTC
Last modified: 11 May 2018, 2:34:08 UTC

@ All

. . Thank you, thank you, thank you!

. . That was the last of the goofs/errors, r3584 is now running and without trashing the remaining v8.20 tasks in the GPU Q.

. . It was a little painful but I have learnt a lot, all I have to do now is remember it. But in the long run I may not use it again for some time, if at all.

. . It was a tortuous journey to answer a simply question but I will now be able to do so.

. . BTW, Keith, I liked your idea of using the browser to check the syntax, but my faith in Murphy's law persists. I selected open with and IE which prompted me to open or save. I selected open and it threw me straight into Notepad .... :(

. . The preliminary results are a little surprising -

. . Arecibo normal WUs seem to be slightly faster, but GBT work is an equal amount slower. Overall not a great difference but it will depend on the workload. This is with only a few results so far, I will check it again later tonight and see if that pattern holds up.

. . Again thanks for all your help. {especially Richard}

Stephen

:)
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Message 1934988 - Posted: 11 May 2018, 2:46:44 UTC - in response to Message 1934987.  
Last modified: 11 May 2018, 2:48:19 UTC

. . BTW, Keith, I liked your idea of using the browser to check the syntax, but my faith in Murphy's law persists. I selected open with and IE which prompted me to open or save. I selected open and it threw me straight into Notepad .... :(

You can always use the right mouse button and select <Open With> and then select the browser to open the file. If the file properties need to be changed you can always use Windows associations mechanism to add the browser to type .XML.
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Message 1935074 - Posted: 11 May 2018, 11:27:11 UTC - in response to Message 1934988.  
Last modified: 11 May 2018, 11:47:46 UTC

. . BTW, Keith, I liked your idea of using the browser to check the syntax, but my faith in Murphy's law persists. I selected open with and IE which prompted me to open or save. I selected open and it threw me straight into Notepad .... :(

You can always use the right mouse button and select <Open With> and then select the browser to open the file. If the file properties need to be changed you can always use Windows associations mechanism to add the browser to type .XML.


. . That is what I did, but for some reason IE throws .xml files over to Notepad.

. . As for changing the file associations, something else to tinker with and get wrong .. . :(

. . BTW, I now have "enough" (?) results to see a more accurate pattern of performance and there is almost no difference to r3557.

Arecibo normal . . . r3557 - 11.0 to 12.0 mins; . . . r3584 - 11.1 to 11.6 mins (so far, it seems to be a slightly tighter grouping but I need more results to be sure)

BLC05 . . . r3557 - 12.0 to 12.2; . . . r3584 - 12.0 to 12.2 (no change)

BLC04 . . . r3557 - 11.9 to 12.1; . . . r3584 - 11.8 to 12.0 (marginal improvement that may not continue - only a couple of dozen results so far)

. . That is on my GTX950, so I would hazard a guess that anyone with a GTX750 or better will not see any significant benefit from changing. I cannot see that which I was dreading in the form of any significant slowdown. So I guess that is a phenomenon only with much more powerful cards.

. . But it has been a learning experience ...

Stephen

:)
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Message 1935165 - Posted: 11 May 2018, 16:01:04 UTC

Or maybe use a different browser than IE. I have never used IE, either Firefox or Chrome has always worked well. I think when they install it resets the default .XML association away from IE. Or at least gives the chance to choose a different app choice in the the chooser menu.
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Message 1935227 - Posted: 11 May 2018, 21:58:38 UTC - in response to Message 1935165.  

Or maybe use a different browser than IE. I have never used IE, either Firefox or Chrome has always worked well. I think when they install it resets the default .XML association away from IE. Or at least gives the chance to choose a different app choice in the the chooser menu.


. . That was a funny thing, even though I have Firefox installed it didn't appear in the list of apps to choose.

. . I will have another try.

Stephen
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Message 1935230 - Posted: 11 May 2018, 22:05:59 UTC - in response to Message 1935227.  

In the chooser if the app doesn't appear in the list, it always gives you the choice to add a different alternative application to open the file type. I use that feature all the time when I add Notepad++ as my preferred app for text files.
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Message 1935255 - Posted: 11 May 2018, 23:54:41 UTC - in response to Message 1935230.  

In the chooser if the app doesn't appear in the list, it always gives you the choice to add a different alternative application to open the file type. I use that feature all the time when I add Notepad++ as my preferred app for text files.


. . Is Notepad ++ a freeware or sommercial app, and is it much better than Notepad?

Stephen

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