Lunatics vs stock

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Message 1901987 - Posted: 20 Nov 2017, 3:58:35 UTC

Hi Mike, I'm also sorry to hear that your health isn't as good as it was, get better soon.

What I like about the Mikes world site is that the installer is an .exe file that runs straight off, the Lunatics site uses .zip files. Richard is busy helping Boinc find it's way forward, thank god someone is!!
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Message 1901997 - Posted: 20 Nov 2017, 5:01:24 UTC - in response to Message 1901987.  

I just wish Richard had passed on all the installer code to someone for continuity before he hung up his spurs.
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Message 1902008 - Posted: 20 Nov 2017, 6:42:31 UTC

I wouldn't exactly say that Richard has walked away from being the Lunatics installer Guru, it's just that as I understand it he has a temporary co-opt onto a Committee that is helping to sort out Boin's future direction. Also he is a moderator now on the Boinc web site to smooth over peoples future expectations of Boinc.

I can't speak for Richard of course, and don't intend to, but unless someone comes out with a supa-dupa new R 3XXX application, the current Beta 6 is likely to remain as doing a good job. And we all know the tuning required for SOG work by now.
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Message 1902021 - Posted: 20 Nov 2017, 8:18:52 UTC - in response to Message 1902008.  

The issue I have a problem with is that the Installer is badly in need of an update. It doesn't have the latest apps and currently always makes the wrong default choices for apps. The documentation is also very behind. The app is now over a year old. A lot has changed since then.
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Message 1902025 - Posted: 20 Nov 2017, 9:03:30 UTC

Ok, where can we find the latest apps then?
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Message 1902026 - Posted: 20 Nov 2017, 9:06:24 UTC - in response to Message 1902025.  

Ok, where can we find the latest apps then?


On my website.
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Message 1902031 - Posted: 20 Nov 2017, 9:53:33 UTC - in response to Message 1902008.  

I wouldn't exactly say that Richard has walked away from being the Lunatics installer Guru, it's just that as I understand it he has a temporary co-opt onto a Committee that is helping to sort out Boin's future direction. Also he is a moderator now on the Boinc web site to smooth over peoples future expectations of Boinc.

I can't speak for Richard of course, and don't intend to, but unless someone comes out with a supa-dupa new R 3XXX application, the current Beta 6 is likely to remain as doing a good job. And we all know the tuning required for SOG work by now.


That`s true.
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Message 1902033 - Posted: 20 Nov 2017, 10:15:18 UTC - in response to Message 1902021.  
Last modified: 20 Nov 2017, 10:18:30 UTC

The issue I have a problem with is that the Installer is badly in need of an update. It doesn't have the latest apps and currently always makes the wrong default choices for apps. The documentation is also very behind. The app is now over a year old. A lot has changed since then.


Wrong.
It was never the intention of the Lunatics Installer to contain the latest applications.
The Installer should give the majority of users the ability to run optimized applications.
This is still the case.

Further optimization via comand line is on user discretion.
The installer just wants to give some examples for a starting point and does not intent to be neither complete nor perfect.
All values listed in the docs are working and are still faster then no comand line options being used.
Some values are either host/driver dependent.
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Message 1902079 - Posted: 20 Nov 2017, 18:00:36 UTC - in response to Message 1902033.  

The issue I have a problem with is that the Installer is badly in need of an update. It doesn't have the latest apps and currently always makes the wrong default choices for apps. The documentation is also very behind. The app is now over a year old. A lot has changed since then.


Wrong.
It was never the intention of the Lunatics Installer to contain the latest applications.
The Installer should give the majority of users the ability to run optimized applications.
This is still the case.

Further optimization via comand line is on user discretion.
The installer just wants to give some examples for a starting point and does not intent to be neither complete nor perfect.
All values listed in the docs are working and are still faster then no comand line options being used.
Some values are either host/driver dependent.


I have Lunatics Installers Beta-3, Beta-4, Beta-5 and the last Beta-6 that were released almost lockstep with each new optimized application by Richard when he was active with the Installer maintenance. The latest SoG app is 3584 and the installer only has 3557. The installer suggests the selection of the SSE41 app for AMD processors and has a radio button to do so. But there is no SSE41 app in the installer and what actually gets installed is the stock SSE3 app.

The command line options are dated now with the ever more powerful GPU hardware being used. I agree they are a good starting point but a new user would be confused as to where his Titan Xp card would fall when looking for suggested command line starting points.
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Message 1902192 - Posted: 21 Nov 2017, 7:02:39 UTC - in response to Message 1902079.  
Last modified: 21 Nov 2017, 7:03:09 UTC

what actually gets installed is the stock SSE3 app.

Are you sure? AFAIK SSE3 opt app was faster than stock so hardly Richard would include stock binary instead of it.

Currently I'm in process of VS-based dev environment rebuild and here are resultsfrom first test run:

Quick timetable

WU : PG0009_v8.wu
setiathome_8.08_windows_x86_64__alt.exe -nog :
Elapsed 1084.281 secs
CPU 1060.781 secs
MB8_win_x64_SSE3x_VS2017_r3713.exe -nog :
Elapsed 1023.844 secs, speedup: 5.57% ratio: 1.06x
CPU 946.000 secs, speedup: 10.82% ratio: 1.12x

WU : PG0395_v8.wu
setiathome_8.08_windows_x86_64__alt.exe -nog :
Elapsed 1971.632 secs
CPU 1519.547 secs
MB8_win_x64_SSE3x_VS2017_r3713.exe -nog :
Elapsed 1420.970 secs, speedup: 27.93% ratio: 1.39x
CPU 1414.938 secs, speedup: 6.88% ratio: 1.07x

WU : PG0444_v8.wu
setiathome_8.08_windows_x86_64__alt.exe -nog :
Elapsed 1390.692 secs
CPU 1376.766 secs
MB8_win_x64_SSE3x_VS2017_r3713.exe -nog :
Elapsed 886.707 secs, speedup: 36.24% ratio: 1.57x
CPU 882.234 secs, speedup: 35.92% ratio: 1.56x

WU : PG1327_v8.wu
setiathome_8.08_windows_x86_64__alt.exe -nog :
Elapsed 1055.831 secs
CPU 1043.969 secs
MB8_win_x64_SSE3x_VS2017_r3713.exe -nog :
Elapsed 943.247 secs, speedup: 10.66% ratio: 1.12x
CPU 919.750 secs, speedup: 11.90% ratio: 1.14x

------------
So, at least on Intel N3050 non-PGOed SSE3 opt binary noticeably better than PGO-ed x64 stock (and it in turn best of available stock for Windows ATM).
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Message 1902193 - Posted: 21 Nov 2017, 7:21:54 UTC

I have Lunatics Installers Beta-3, Beta-4, Beta-5 and the last Beta-6 that were released almost lockstep with each new optimized application by Richard when he was active with the Installer maintenance. The latest SoG app is 3584 and the installer only has 3557. The installer suggests the selection of the SSE41 app for AMD processors and has a radio button to do so. But there is no SSE41 app in the installer and what actually gets installed is the stock SSE3 app.
I queried if the R3584 did any better than the R3557 and I was told that the R2584 was only introduced for lower spec cards. The Installer as is aims to cater for as many people as possible from entry level newbies to high end experts. I believe that it does that very well.

The command line options are dated now with the ever more powerful GPU hardware being used. I agree they are a good starting point but a new user would be confused as to where his Titan Xp card would fall when looking for suggested command line starting points.
Sorry Keith I would disagree there :-) How likely is it that a newbie sticking their toes into crunching for the first time would kick off with a top of the range Nvidia Titan X 12 Gb card retailing at £1288??
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Message 1902196 - Posted: 21 Nov 2017, 7:56:53 UTC - in response to Message 1902193.  

How likely is it that a newbie sticking their toes into crunching for the first time would kick off with a top of the range Nvidia Titan X 12 Gb card retailing at £1288??

Quite likely actually.
A gamer with a highend gaming system finds out about Seti and decides to give it a go.
For all their computational ability, most highend videocards (when there isn't some mining rush on) are bought for playing games.
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Message 1902197 - Posted: 21 Nov 2017, 7:56:58 UTC - in response to Message 1902192.  

what actually gets installed is the stock SSE3 app.

Correction, you are correct. I misspoke in calling the the optimized SSE3 app, stock. We are still be misled by the Installer stating the optimized SSE41 app will be installed when selected.
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Message 1902198 - Posted: 21 Nov 2017, 8:05:21 UTC - in response to Message 1902193.  

I have Lunatics Installers Beta-3, Beta-4, Beta-5 and the last Beta-6 that were released almost lockstep with each new optimized application by Richard when he was active with the Installer maintenance. The latest SoG app is 3584 and the installer only has 3557. The installer suggests the selection of the SSE41 app for AMD processors and has a radio button to do so. But there is no SSE41 app in the installer and what actually gets installed is the stock SSE3 app.
I queried if the R3584 did any better than the R3557 and I was told that the R2584 was only introduced for lower spec cards. The Installer as is aims to cater for as many people as possible from entry level newbies to high end experts. I believe that it does that very well.

The r3584 was not created just for lower end cards though that was the primary purpose. Raistmer has also stated that the r3584 app also produces less Inconclusives.

The command line options are dated now with the ever more powerful GPU hardware being used. I agree they are a good starting point but a new user would be confused as to where his Titan Xp card would fall when looking for suggested command line starting points.
Sorry Keith I would disagree there :-) How likely is it that a newbie sticking their toes into crunching for the first time would kick off with a top of the range Nvidia Titan X 12 Gb card retailing at £1288??[/quote]

From Grant's post.
Quite likely actually.
A gamer with a highend gaming system finds out about Seti and decides to give it a go.
For all their computational ability, most highend videocards (when there isn't some mining rush on) are bought for playing games.


Exactly. The forum probably has at least one post a week just in Number Crunching from either someone just getting back into SETI or BOINC or a high end gamer that just found out about SETI and decides they want their idle gaming rig to do something useful when they are not gaming.
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Message 1902838 - Posted: 25 Nov 2017, 8:11:48 UTC - in response to Message 1902198.  

Hi guys, does anybody know when the installer 0.45 will come off beta and go gold ? We seem to have been on beta for ages !!
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Message 1902839 - Posted: 25 Nov 2017, 8:16:03 UTC - in response to Message 1902838.  

Hi guys, does anybody know when the installer 0.45 will come off beta and go gold ? We seem to have been on beta for ages !!

The person that developed the installer is busy with other work, so unless someone else comes along to develop a new one, or work on the existing Beta one, the answer is probably not for a very long time.
As it is, it is fully functional. The current Stock SoG application is better with older hardware than the one in the installer, but other than that it's present applications are as good as is available.
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Message 1902854 - Posted: 25 Nov 2017, 10:30:21 UTC

+1 a quite reasonable reply.
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Message boards : Number crunching : Lunatics vs stock


 
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