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AndrewMarcio Send message Joined: 9 Oct 17 Posts: 501 Credit: 22,875 RAC: 0 |
Sorry, I'm not seeing a clear question in there. Can you clarify what your question is? @OzzFan Sorry, I forgot to ask the question. The question is: an ipotetic alien civilization could modify the Universe, time and space? If yes, could it have any repercussions on our reality as well? If they have the technology for receive our signal transmission from SETI, why don't they contact us or come here? If they are capable to travel at the speed of light or through wormhole, why don't they come here? |
AndrewMarcio Send message Joined: 9 Oct 17 Posts: 501 Credit: 22,875 RAC: 0 |
It predicts that mankind won't even reach Type 1 until 200 years from now, so it seems rather pointless to consider it all really. @Chris S This doesn't would exclude if exists a very advanced civilization and come on the Earth. Maybe they do not want to interfere with our evolution, but they could also serve as an objective to help others sentient beings to grows. |
moomin Send message Joined: 21 Oct 17 Posts: 6204 Credit: 38,420 RAC: 0 |
Sorry, I'm not seeing a clear question in there. Can you clarify what your question is? I guess that you mean hypothetical aliens. Enrico Fermi said "Where is everybody" I wonder too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox Ciao:) |
AndrewMarcio Send message Joined: 9 Oct 17 Posts: 501 Credit: 22,875 RAC: 0 |
Sorry, I'm not seeing a clear question in there. Can you clarify what your question is? I have heard on television that scientists assume that these civilizations might have disappeared, either because of a devastating war or simply extinct. In addition to Enrico Fermi's paradox I like to cite too quote from Arthur C. Clarke: “Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.†Clarke was afraid of a possible aggressive and conquering civilization. In fact, he does not have all the wrongs. But I believe there are also peaceful civilizations. Ciao moomin. :) |
AndrewMarcio Send message Joined: 9 Oct 17 Posts: 501 Credit: 22,875 RAC: 0 |
Fermi's paradox, named after physicist Enrico Fermi, is the apparent contradiction between the lack of evidence and high probability estimates for the existence of extraterrestrial civilizations. The basic points of the argument, made by physicists Enrico Fermi (1901–1954) and Michael H. Hart (born 1932), are: We take for granted that there are other forms of life in the Universe seen its vastness. Now, some this civilization should have could a different evolutionary path from ours. Given that they are really advanced, given that they are able to travel in space, assuming they have the technology to use shortcuts to shorten the distance from point A to point B, this should not increase the chances, albeit low, of their contact with us? Really, i don't understand why this Universe are really very big and so little '' inhabited ''. Wait: SETI not sendig out signals WHILE receiving? Edit: Crap. I confused with Arecibo message -.-'' Shame on me. |
AndrewMarcio Send message Joined: 9 Oct 17 Posts: 501 Credit: 22,875 RAC: 0 |
If existing the Stargate. |
OzzFan Send message Joined: 9 Apr 02 Posts: 15691 Credit: 84,761,841 RAC: 28 |
Sorry, I'm not seeing a clear question in there. Can you clarify what your question is? Doesn't that presuppose that such an advanced civilization exists? Further, doesn't that presume the Kardashev scale, which is arbitrary in its classifications, based purely on hypothetical advancements and fictional evolutionary landmarks, is even remotely correct? The Kardashev scale is fun to talk about and consider, however I think it is premature to start drawing inferences or conclusions from such a scale. I've written previously that we have no actual basis or reference as to when an advanced civilization is supposed to appear in a given lifetime of a Universe (and yes, that statement presupposes a theoretical multiverse). Before we can point to the age of our Universe and say "there should have been an advanced civilization by now!" we must first consider we do not have any reference data to draw from. For example, we estimate our Universe to be 13.8 billion years old. Is this a young Universe? Middle-aged Universe? Are we an old Universe? Whatever answer you choose for each of those question, follow up each with: At what point should intelligent life develop? How quickly should an advanced civilization develop? How long before a civilization becomes a Type III on the Kardashev scale? If we are a young Universe, there simply may not have been time for such a civilization to evolve. If we are a middle-aged Universe, there may be civilizations on the cusp of such an advancement and may need a few hundred thousand more years. If we are an old Universe, then your questions are worth additional consideration, and perhaps the validity or the feasibility of the Kardashev scale might be called into question. Assuming you follow the mainstream scientific point of view that we have not yet to our knoweldge been visited by alien life forms, there are additional questions and considerations to think about before making further assumptions, each acknolwedging our lack of data. For example, what if we are actually alone? What if we are the first civlization to advance (assuming a young Universe hypothesis)? What if other civilizations have destroyed themselves before ever reaching the prestige of Type III? What if, by nature of the makeup of our existence, humanoid lifeforms are not able to exist beyond a few million years before the next catastrophic extinction event occurs? What if such advanced civilizations have their version of the Star Trek Prime Directive to not get involved in a civilization until they've reached a certain point in their advancement? So you see, before we start jumping to conclusions about "where are they and why haven't they ran the front door bell?" we need to consider and temper our expectations in the face of lack of additional reference data. |
AndrewMarcio Send message Joined: 9 Oct 17 Posts: 501 Credit: 22,875 RAC: 0 |
Damn it! A lot of variable. It's unnerving living with this doubt. I'll look stubborn or stupid but I would like to know if someone there listening to us and returning at least with a ''Hey we are here''. What if such advanced civilizations have their version of the Star Trek Prime Directive to not get involved in a civilization until they've reached a certain point in their advancement? Even more depressing :( If the SETI listening but they do not want to be heard, you think this could be a possibility or a paradox? |
OzzFan Send message Joined: 9 Apr 02 Posts: 15691 Credit: 84,761,841 RAC: 28 |
Rather than fill your mind with doubt and your emotions with depression, look to all the wonder and mystery the Universe has to offer! I'm excited to think that if we strive hard enough, and we act intelligently enough, we might be able to answer some or all of those questions. If the SETI listening but they do not want to be heard, you think this could be a possibility or a paradox? I think it's a Schrodinger's Cat kind of situation whereupon we can't know the answer because we haven't opened the box. It is both equally possible that they are listening and don't want to be heard, and it's possible they are broadcasting and want to be heard. Given a populous Universe, one civilization might take the former philosophy while another may take the latter. It would be foolish and rather binary to think that either all civilizations are listening and don't want to be heard, or they are all broadcasting and want to be heard. The binary scenarios have their probabilities of being true, of course, but I don't put much weight into the thought that no one wants to be heard. Regardless of which probability is more accurate, I think searching for answers is the only way to gain a better understanding. |
moomin Send message Joined: 21 Oct 17 Posts: 6204 Credit: 38,420 RAC: 0 |
Regardless of which probability is more accurate, I think searching for answers is the only way to gain a better understanding. Yes, indeed. So far we, SETI, only search for carrier waves that perhaps other intelligente beings are used to transfer informtion |
Gordon Lowe Send message Joined: 5 Nov 00 Posts: 12094 Credit: 6,317,865 RAC: 0 |
Perhaps the light clock can get the idea across. Two mirrors one photon. Clock puts out a tick every time the photon hits a mirror. Sitting "at rest" the photon flies back and forth between the mirrors at c and the clock tick off the usual ticks. We launch the clock and now it is moving quickly. The photon can't go any faster than c. Because the clock is moving the photon is now going forward as well as bouncing between the mirrors. I can follow that. It is a longer path. Clock ticks slower. I follow the longer path concept, but I still don't see how that means clocks in two different places literally tick more slowly. Speed the clock up to c, and the photon can't hit the mirrors any more as all its speed is used up staying in place in the clock, time stops. You lose me here. I think part of the problem is I see clocks and photons as acting independently of each other; i.e., they don't know each other exists. If you are along for the ride with the clock you have the same things happen to you. So to you the clock always ticks off time at exactly the same rate, because you don't notice any difference. It is only a different observer that can tell the change. Relative to the observer. Relativity. Time is ticking off for me at one rate and for my friends at another rate? The mind is a weird and mysterious place |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30648 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Perhaps the light clock can get the idea across. Two mirrors one photon. Clock puts out a tick every time the photon hits a mirror. Sitting "at rest" the photon flies back and forth between the mirrors at c and the clock tick off the usual ticks. We launch the clock and now it is moving quickly. The photon can't go any faster than c. Because the clock is moving the photon is now going forward as well as bouncing between the mirrors. Remember time is measured in units of distance. Give a distance of 9.461e+12Km and a photon makes the trip in what we call a year. The photon has to be able to hit a mirror for there to be a tick on the clock. No ticks = time stops. Perhaps you do understand the farther we look out into space the farther back in time we look in time. That is because the photon we see has been frozen in time and the distance it travels is how much back we are looking. Precisely. And if you are close enough to compare clocks, say GPS satellites you will note that their clocks tick at a different rate than the clock you have. It is all a bit weird but is all comes from the speed of light being the same for every observer. Something has to change for that to be true. Rate time passes is a thing that changes.If you are along for the ride with the clock you have the same things happen to you. So to you the clock always ticks off time at exactly the same rate, because you don't notice any difference. It is only a different observer that can tell the change. Relative to the observer. Relativity. |
Lynn Send message Joined: 20 Nov 00 Posts: 14162 Credit: 79,603,650 RAC: 123 |
Let's not forget what these monsters can do with time. According to Einstein's theory of general relativity, massive objects create distortions in space and time. ... It never crosses the event horizon, but stays frozen there in space and time. The falling clock also becomes continuously redder, since its light loses energy as it escapes from the black hole's vicinity. |
moomin Send message Joined: 21 Oct 17 Posts: 6204 Credit: 38,420 RAC: 0 |
Time is ticking off for me at one rate and for my friends at another rate? Yes. Every object in the Universe "lives" in their own time that is a position in the space-time reality. As much an object cannot exist in the same spatial location with an other object they cannot exist in the same position in time either. What is Time? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91RHD0RSRxY The Times They Are A Changin' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7qQ6_RV4VQ |
moomin Send message Joined: 21 Oct 17 Posts: 6204 Credit: 38,420 RAC: 0 |
Let's not forget what these monsters can do with time. Mindgobbling:) It never crosses the event horizon, but stays frozen there in space and time. Actually it's the information of objects falling into a massive object horizon of events to us observers that to us looks like the time stand still. As for the object itself time will pass as always. Until you get spaghettified of course:) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_theory |
moomin Send message Joined: 21 Oct 17 Posts: 6204 Credit: 38,420 RAC: 0 |
We don't even really know what reality is. Scientists usually start to giggle when asked:) http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x21ss62 |
AndrewMarcio Send message Joined: 9 Oct 17 Posts: 501 Credit: 22,875 RAC: 0 |
Could an astronaut die if he is too close to the black hole? And what is sucked into the black hole, comes out of a white hole? Or is it transformed into '' other ''? |
AndrewMarcio Send message Joined: 9 Oct 17 Posts: 501 Credit: 22,875 RAC: 0 |
I think you need to read up on black holes Andrew!! Hi Chris. White Hole What is a Whith Hole? I mean if the astronaut approach a black hole he would die instant. |
moomin Send message Joined: 21 Oct 17 Posts: 6204 Credit: 38,420 RAC: 0 |
Could an astronaut die if he is too close to the black hole? And what is sucked into the black hole, comes out of a white hole? Or is it transformed into '' other ''? First question: No, the astronaut experience the same laws of natures as we all do. Second question:The information of the objects stay in the event horizon when falling in. The matter however that fall in are converted to pure energy and "disappear'' in the center. There is a misconseption about this and the fact is actually is that matter converts to pure energy making the space around it to become distorted. These findings are not theoris and are an observable fact. There is no mass in a black hole, only energy that make the surrounding prone to gravity. |
moomin Send message Joined: 21 Oct 17 Posts: 6204 Credit: 38,420 RAC: 0 |
An Event Horizon is simply a posh term for a point of no return. What? Posh term? Since when is a scientific term called "posh"? As for Event Horizons that are real and not posh at all, we all know that they are the end of line in our universe. |
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