From 1950 through 2000 many maintained that RCT-31 had behaved in a cowardly fashion at Chosin, based on the statements of the 1st Marine Division commander, General O.P. Smith and a US Navy Chaplain. They were probably puzzled by the large number of survivors escaping the combat without their weapons and reached the incorrect conclusion that these men had abandoned the fight. In reality, it was the PLA's strange obsession with destroying only the heavy equipment and vehicles that spared these fighting men, over half of whom had been wounded in the series of fierce battles.

Eventually, released Chinese documents and research by historians like Marine Corps Maj. Parrot and Roy Appleman convinced the world that the RCT-31 had fought bravely and performed well given the circumstances. In recognition of the heroic efforts of the 31st RCT, after half a century, in 2001 the Navy awarded the task force the Navy Presidential Unit Citation.

The problem then was that allied forces had the North Korean Army in disarray & China did not want US forces on their borders. A similar problem exists today. If the US strikes 1st, it won't be North Korea they will be dealing with & it will become a fight they will never win, just like Vietnam.

So aside from the "Gung Ho" types on here, is that something the American people are willing to accept?

It does not matter the scenario, it is the Marine Corps attitude.

Have you served?

It does not matter the scenario, it is the Marine Corps attitude.

Have you served?

1962 to 1984 then NATO civilian till 1991.
Father served 22 years including D day, mother QUARANC throughout WW2.
Grandfather Royal Navy WW1 and WW2.

It does not matter the scenario, it is the Marine Corps attitude.

Have you served?

Silence and Submission to the demands of murdering, enslaving, maniac and unstable tyrant Kim.

There was one voice I hated for over 30 years, whenever it cropped up on the TV or radio, I switched it off. You know what Clyde? I'm of the opinion that you would have given that man a run for his money!

Who was that man?

Rev Ian Paisley.

In the face of recent events, some of which threaten our very existence, there are still those who concentrate their puny efforts in areas where no concern in needed. They call love evil … the human body obscene … there they can never be anything other than beautiful. Our rivers and lakes fill slowly, with death. The air we breathe strangles the mighty oak. Little by little we can see human compassion and love growing less. And still there are those who wave their toy banners of protest. They attempt to think for the rest of us. Dictate what is “safe” for us to read and see. They, the strong and pure of heart, must protect those of us who “they” have decided are weak. We do not question their right to protest. But let their decisions be for themselves, for no man has the right to decide for another.

McNamara was a numbers guy. Appointed the U.S. secretary of defense when tensions in Vietnam rose in the early 1960s, he insisted on getting data on everything he could. Only by applying statistical rigor, he believed, could decision makers understand a complex situation and make the right choices. The world in his view was a mass of unruly information that—if delineated, denoted, demarcated, and quantified—could be tamed by human hand and fall under human will. McNamara sought Truth, and that Truth could be found in data. Among the numbers that came back to him was the “body count.”

As the Vietnam conflict escalated and the United States sent more troops, it became clear that this was a war of wills, not of territory. America’s strategy was to pound the Viet Cong to the negotiation table. The way to measure progress, therefore, was by the number of enemy killed. The body count was published daily in the newspapers. To the war’s supporters it was proof of progress; to critics, evidence of its immorality. The body count was the data point that defined an era.

McNamara relied on the figures, fetishized them. With his perfectly combed-back hair and his flawlessly knotted tie, McNamara felt he could comprehend what was happening on the ground only by staring at a spreadsheet—at all those orderly rows and columns, calculations and charts, whose mastery seemed to bring him one standard deviation closer to God.

Well we can put Clyde up there alongside McNamara as he loves reminding us on the numbers of dead.

No.... Neither of you will succeed in your attempt to deflect from your real beliefs.

You have stated that either option fills you with dread. If that is the case, why do you continue to post your asinine mantra?

:) :) :)