North Korea II

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Message 1891494 - Posted: 23 Sep 2017, 6:57:09 UTC

Darrell wrote:

What will it take for China to realize that their puppet is out of control and activate their agents to take Kim out locally? I really don't worry about his missiles, it would be the placement of a weapon inside a shipping container that could cost us a west coast port city.
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Message 1891496 - Posted: 23 Sep 2017, 7:03:12 UTC - in response to Message 1891494.  
Last modified: 23 Sep 2017, 7:17:02 UTC

Iran tests new ballistic missile. :-)

North Korea, will do the same. :-)

https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=81010
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Message 1891533 - Posted: 23 Sep 2017, 13:54:01 UTC

The problem I see with most advocating a Pro Action or a Pro Negotiation position, is this: A failure to understand, or a refusal to acknowledge, that their position may lead to unimaginable disaster.
Disagree

I think everyone realizes and are scared to their very core at the prospect of the level of devastation both industrial, and human that is possible/probable. If not they are lying to themselves. At this point it is a pragmatic choice of the current level possible or the level after King Ding Dong perfects and increases his Nuke arsenal and delivery system.

In response to Darrell I believe the Chinese do realize the nature and source of the problem and acknowledged such with the directive to their banking system. This coupled with the disputed reports since February of troop increases along the border indicates a readiness if not willingness to act. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-malaysia-kim-china/china-denies-increasing-troops-on-north-korean-border-idUSKBN1620ZR

Don't rule out Chinese invasion of DPRK if Num Nutz does indeed test a nuke missile in the Pacific.........as a negotiated alternative to a US counter strike.

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Message 1891567 - Posted: 23 Sep 2017, 20:08:50 UTC

The nukes will fly because tRump. Remember everything DPRK has said they will do they have done.
https://apnews.com/39063236d8e243f3ad8c30ffc0eb3c55/The-Latest:-North-Korea:-Trump-insult-ensures-attack-on-US
The Latest: North Korea: Trump insult ensures attack on US

North Korea’s foreign minister says U.S. President Donald Trump’s insult calling leader Kim Jong Un “rocket man” makes “our rocket’s visit to the entire US mainland inevitable all the more.”

Ri Yong Ho called the American leader “a mentally deranged person full of megalomania and complacency” with his finger on the “nuclear button” and declared: “None other than Trump himself is on a suicide mission.”

And he told world leaders on Saturday: “In case innocent lives of the U.S. are lost because of this suicide attack, Trump will be held totally responsible.”
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Message 1891590 - Posted: 23 Sep 2017, 23:54:14 UTC
Last modified: 23 Sep 2017, 23:57:53 UTC

Well, IMHO whatever moral upper hand that the U.S. has in this is being lost because POTUS either deliberately wants to start a war by goading Kim into one or some other reason (ego and lack of self-control are often mentioned.)

If the official conclusion is that Kim really is "deranged" then shouldn't he be treated as such, ie likely to do something rash in a state of rage that he and millions of other people who have no stake in this game will regret forever? This is not how to talk to "deranged" people with nuclear weapons, and unfortunately we had too many warnings that POTUS' lack of diplomatic experience and familiarity only with sole proprietorships where his word was unquestionable would lead to this.

My $0.02 of the day. :^(
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Message 1891592 - Posted: 24 Sep 2017, 0:10:18 UTC - in response to Message 1891591.  
Last modified: 24 Sep 2017, 0:12:48 UTC

I doubt that anything would stop him from developing a nuclear arsenal, yes. But given that he has a dictator-sized massive ego, he may be goaded into using it by being insulted or challenged whereas he would not have otherwise.

It's hypocritical to both claim he is deranged and simultaneously goad him as if he wasn't. Now all we can do is hope that he really isn't.
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Message 1891641 - Posted: 24 Sep 2017, 15:32:02 UTC

Nuke tipped missiles are only one of the threats Limp Duc Fat has, possibly even more heinous is the stock of chemical WMD. (Possibly Sadam's 'disappeared' stock).
And what biological agents does he possess? Can the World REALLY just take a wait and see position?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/north-korea/north-korea-also-has-nerve-agent-vx-chemical-weapons-expert-n802231

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Message 1891651 - Posted: 24 Sep 2017, 16:19:06 UTC

DO IT NOKO. DO IT. PLEASE.

Looking Forward to TOTAL DESTRUCTION of NOKO

DO IT FAT BOY.

End of NOKO Yap

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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Message 1891653 - Posted: 24 Sep 2017, 16:23:45 UTC - in response to Message 1891641.  

Nuke tipped missiles are only one of the threats Limp Duc Fat has, possibly even more heinous is the stock of chemical WMD. (Possibly Sadam's 'disappeared' stock).
And what biological agents does he possess? Can the World REALLY just take a wait and see position?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/north-korea/north-korea-also-has-nerve-agent-vx-chemical-weapons-expert-n802231

With no exit path everything Kim has will soon be headed at the west. Kim must be given an exit path. Failure to give Kim an exit path is suicide. An exit path is not a repeat of Iraq.
tRump's failure is to see that an absence of a exit path is suicide. tRump wants moral points more than a solution. tRump plays that game with health care too. tRump has to be dead right, dead being the operative word.
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Message 1891655 - Posted: 24 Sep 2017, 16:35:03 UTC - in response to Message 1891653.  

Isn't that what LBJ did in 66/67 regarding Vietnam?
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Message 1891661 - Posted: 24 Sep 2017, 17:37:26 UTC - in response to Message 1891654.  

Remember that Trump is stating what will happen
Still a moral points game
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Message 1891662 - Posted: 24 Sep 2017, 17:37:59 UTC - in response to Message 1891655.  

Isn't that what LBJ did in 66/67 regarding Vietnam?

Yep, and the solution is the same. Korea is for Koreans.
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Message 1891663 - Posted: 24 Sep 2017, 18:13:11 UTC - in response to Message 1891662.  

Sadly, have to agree with you. So far, have watched 5 episodes of Ken Burns: The Vietnam War. So far, with two exceptions, all it has done was remind me of the nightly news we watched during that time period.

The first exception was an eyeopener. The fist episode imparted information I was not aware of:
Vietnam was divided in 2 at the 17th parallel.

(Shades of Lonnie Donegan's "The Battle of New Orleans") Those blooming British (had no idea that the British were even there. Was aware that Australia had some forces there) assisted the French in their attempts to regain their colonies & resort order to "their" ideals. By that time it was pretty obvious that their empires were crumbling & fast, yet...

The 2nd exception was more shocking imv, that many within the US Adminstration felt that the war was unwinnable. In fact their Secretary of Defence Robert McNamara was in private communication with LBJ & expressed his doubts, yet never aired them publicly.

Are we about to see those very same mistakes again?
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Message 1891665 - Posted: 24 Sep 2017, 18:25:16 UTC - in response to Message 1891663.  

The first exception was an eyeopener. The fist episode imparted information I was not aware of:
Vietnam was divided in 2 at the 17th parallel.

What I was not aware of was that the OSS deliberately withheld info from Truman.
The 2nd exception was more shocking imv, that many within the US Adminstration felt that the war was unwinnable. In fact their Secretary of Defence Robert McNamara was in private communication with LBJ & expressed his doubts, yet never aired them publicly.

Yes we were lied to many times.
Are we about to see those very same mistakes again?

Probably
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Message 1891669 - Posted: 24 Sep 2017, 18:41:26 UTC - in response to Message 1891665.  

The sad thing I found in watching any documentaries on modern warfare is that with every war, the same quote is often mentioned - we fight the next war based on experiences of the past one.

Sorry where Korea & Vietnam is concerned, a most important concept of modern war was completely ignored.

Once ground has been taken from the enemy, it was secured & denied to the enemy. One then kept pushing the enemy back until they sue for peace or you overrun them & the war is over...

...but what actually happened in those 2 wars?

Should the situation in Korea acually blow up again, if it goes nuclear...

...if it goes conventional, will your political & military leaders make the same mistakes - the biggest one being overwhelming firepower will do the job.
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Message 1891677 - Posted: 24 Sep 2017, 20:03:38 UTC
Last modified: 24 Sep 2017, 20:04:17 UTC

May I suggest a read https://www.amazon.com/Retrospect-Tragedy-Lessons-Vietnam/dp/0812925238/ref=mt_hardcover?_encoding=UTF8&me=

No question that tRump s heading down that road at supersonic speed.
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Message 1891683 - Posted: 24 Sep 2017, 21:31:03 UTC - in response to Message 1891677.  

Thanks for the link. Ordered a copy from Amazon UK. Also noticed another & ordered a copy as well. I personally agree with the quote from the conclusion of the 2nd book which is Dereliction of Duty.

"The war in Vietnam was not lost in the field, nor was it lost on the front pages of the New York Times or the college campuses. It was lost in Washington, D.C."

Still have a copy of Max Hasting's The Korean War. Pretty good book the only problem is that it does not go into depth of the battles or the politics.
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Message 1891689 - Posted: 24 Sep 2017, 22:53:47 UTC - in response to Message 1891687.  

Wrong it was lost because both your political & military leaders forgot one very important matter - you were invaders in a foreign land (as seen by the Vietnamese both North & South).

That error was compounded by your military commanders in Vietnam - win the ground than scarper.
Overwhelming firepower - didn't work out so well did it.
Treating the natives as inferior - So much for your "Hearts & Minds" program.
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Message 1891691 - Posted: 24 Sep 2017, 23:32:49 UTC - in response to Message 1891689.  

Treating the natives as inferior - So much for your "Hearts & Minds" program.
Nor has it worked in Iraq, Afghanistan, or anywhere else. They must be treated as equals. Oh, if we did that with Kim in the first place he wouldn't have felt the need to build the bomb! But stupid men who above all else must feel superior, be it by morals or skin color ... .
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Message 1891779 - Posted: 25 Sep 2017, 15:30:03 UTC
Last modified: 25 Sep 2017, 15:35:16 UTC

North Korea's foreign minister said on Monday that U.S. [quote]President Donald Trump had declared war on North Korea and that Pyongyang reserves the right to take countermeasures, including shooting down U.S. strategic bombers even if they are not in the country's air space.

"The whole world should clearly remember it was the U.S. who first declared war on our country," Foreign Minister Ri Yong Ho told reporters in New York.

"Since the United States declared war on our country, we will have every right to make countermeasures, including the right to shoot down United States strategic bombers even when they are not inside the airspace border of our country."
So they set us up in the World Court of Opinion as the aggressors when they shoot down a US plane clearly not in their airspace.................very clever...............not.

US Launches 'Classified' Satellite from California...........wonder who they're watching?
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/video/us-spy-satellite-launches-for-classified-mission/vi-AAspbW4

And the Doomsday Clock ticks one second closer to midnight........

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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