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pierre castro
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Message 1863148 - Posted: 23 Apr 2017, 6:13:32 UTC

Cuba is a sore point for many Americans.
To even think rationally about Cuba is impossible for many.
But then Fidel wasn't concerned with pleasing foreigners,
which is why he continually gave the USA the middle finger.
He was brutal with his enemies, but his enemies had set the bar
at much greater brutality and oppression.
Under Batista more than 70% of Cuba's agricultural land was owned by foreign interests.
Most Casinos, hotels, and other attractions, were owned by foreigners, or the Mafia.
Most Cubans, especially those of African descent had no future.
After the Revolution Everything changed.
True that Batista got away with over $300+ million personally , and his henchmen with a further $700+ million in 1959, in 1959 dollars.
By the end of Batista's rule, later described by U.S. President Kennedy as "one of the most bloody and repressive dictatorships in the long history of Latin American repression", up to 20,000 Cubans had been killed.

Fidel Castro's legacy is mixed.
Under Batista Cuba could well have ended up another Haiti after everyone was finished stripping it of valuables.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/11/castro-death/508811/
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/fidel-castro-death-cuba-embargo-peasants-poor-urban-areas-modernisation-a7441036.html
But none of them would want to live in a Cuba, no matter how rich, without universal free education, free healthcare, cheap public transport and the lowest rates of violent crime in the Americas. None of them. This is Fidel's legacy.
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Message 1863225 - Posted: 23 Apr 2017, 15:07:54 UTC

Cuba's problem is their neighbour. America likes things to be simple & others to have the same or similar outlook as themselves. Anything different is seen as inferior or a threat...

...as seen here with a "lovely kind" Yank
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Message 1863324 - Posted: 23 Apr 2017, 21:41:47 UTC - in response to Message 1863307.  

Ah Dr Jekyll, oh illustrious professor, what is the difference between "Supressing" & "Oppressing"?
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Message 1863334 - Posted: 23 Apr 2017, 21:56:11 UTC - in response to Message 1863329.  

Oh professor of "Human Freedom" & "World of the Free Interchange of Ideas", by stating that "Suppression & Oppression" are equal, then you are just as guilty as your leaders in the "Suppression" of the Cuban people with your embargoes & sanctions.

You should be ashamed of yourself in promulgating your bovine excrement for so long.
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Message 1863338 - Posted: 23 Apr 2017, 22:00:52 UTC - in response to Message 1863324.  

Ah Dr Jekyll, oh illustrious professor, what is the difference between "Supressing" & "Oppressing"?

Now you must remember that Clyde's family was 1 of those groups of Yanks that were ripping off those poor Cubans before those Cubans woke up and rebelled against being ripped off by them.

Isn't that right Clyde?

Cheers.
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Message 1863343 - Posted: 23 Apr 2017, 22:08:01 UTC - in response to Message 1863329.  
Last modified: 23 Apr 2017, 22:11:37 UTC

All that truly matters. Is your support and excusal of the Oppression and Suppression of people.

So the fact that "Blondie" wants to override the relaxations of sanctions that Obama started means that I'm in excellent company :-)
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Message 1863347 - Posted: 23 Apr 2017, 22:29:57 UTC
Last modified: 23 Apr 2017, 22:33:56 UTC

¡Hola:)
Some of the Cuban people are oppressed. Thats true.
The others.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMm3lt5xkF4
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Message 1863358 - Posted: 23 Apr 2017, 23:05:25 UTC - in response to Message 1863307.  
Last modified: 23 Apr 2017, 23:06:13 UTC

Clyde whatever happened to your mantra of choosing the lesser of 2 evils?
Excusing Evil, because of another Evil. Says to Evil's Victims: DROP DEAD!!!!

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Message 1863373 - Posted: 24 Apr 2017, 0:17:59 UTC - in response to Message 1863358.  

Clyde whatever happened to your mantra of choosing the lesser of 2 evils?
Excusing Evil, because of another Evil. Says to Evil's Victims: DROP DEAD!!!!

Because he condones one evil over the other. Matters not which you pick, that you will pick says everything about you.
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Message 1863428 - Posted: 24 Apr 2017, 7:26:12 UTC - in response to Message 1863338.  

Now you must remember that Clyde's family was 1 of those groups of Yanks that were ripping off those poor Cubans before those Cubans woke up and rebelled against being ripped off by them.
Not only rebelled but ended up making most of America crap it's pants for 13 days solid
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Message 1863429 - Posted: 24 Apr 2017, 8:23:14 UTC - in response to Message 1863428.  

Not only rebelled but ended up making most of America crap it's pants for 13 days solid


You would of 4t that they would learn somethin from that wouldn't you ( but don't think they did ;-) )
Life is what you make of it :-)

When i'm good i'm very good , but when i'm bad i'm shi#eloads better ;-) In't I " buttercups " p.m.s.l at authoritie !!;-)
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Message 1863548 - Posted: 24 Apr 2017, 22:52:07 UTC - in response to Message 1863429.  

Not only rebelled but ended up making most of America crap it's pants for 13 days solid


You would of 4t that they would learn somethin from that wouldn't you ( but don't think they did ;-) )


You all are giving Castro way too much credit on that one...

What happened was the USA placed some nuclear weapons in Turkey (April 1962).

The USSR got even by placing some in Cuba.

It was a JFK vs. Khrushchev p*ssing match.



Castro did not exactly have much choice in the matter -- by then the USSR totally 'owned' Cuba by virtue of all the aid/assistance that the USSR sent Cuba.

Castro's "sin" in all of this was that, even though Cuba was so close to the USA, Castro buddied up with the USSR (the arch-nemesis of the USA at the time -- a VERY grave threat to our national security).

It was NOT that Castro was a communist. Batista had a LOT of support from communists (they were, in fact, the main driving force behind Batista's 1940 election as President of Cuba).

It was NOT that Castro was anti-USA. MANY leaders in the Americas were/are Anti-USA, many with GOOD reason (we have done our share of naughty, bad things to them, regrettably).

But we absolutely could NOT tolerate the close relations between the USSR and Cuba. That earned Cuba a long-term position on our S**t-list. Guilt by association.

Some appear to want to make the case that Batista Bad, Castro Good...

The Facts are that Batista Bad, Castro Bad. Yes, BOTH did a few good things for the Cuban people.... But, on the whole, BOTH did WAY more harm than good.
https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE

#Texit

Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016.

Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power.
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Message 1863555 - Posted: 24 Apr 2017, 23:47:22 UTC - in response to Message 1863548.  
Last modified: 24 Apr 2017, 23:47:59 UTC

Ah. The Cuba crise.
Thankfully enough there was some Russians and Americans who didn't followed order and used common sense instead.
"Vasili Arkhipov saved the world"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Arkhipov
And an American Navy officer at a destroyer that also used common sense when they found the Russian sub.
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Message 1863563 - Posted: 25 Apr 2017, 0:34:58 UTC - in response to Message 1863548.  

The Facts are that Batista Bad, Castro Bad. Yes, BOTH did a few good things for the Cuban people.... But, on the whole, BOTH did WAY more harm than good.

I'm curious MK, what exactly did Batista do that was good for the Cuban people?
In my estimation Batista was much more Evil than Castro, and Castro was much less Evil than a great number of Despots the US has supported around the Globe.
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Message 1863784 - Posted: 26 Apr 2017, 17:34:53 UTC - in response to Message 1863563.  

The Facts are that Batista Bad, Castro Bad. Yes, BOTH did a few good things for the Cuban people.... But, on the whole, BOTH did WAY more harm than good.

I'm curious MK, what exactly did Batista do that was good for the Cuban people?
In my estimation Batista was much more Evil than Castro, and Castro was much less Evil than a great number of Despots the US has supported around the Globe.


Study Batista's time in power, especially his time as ELECTED President of Cuba (1940 - 1944). Elected Batista, the two Presidents following him, and then Coup Batista DID do some amount of good for (at least some) the Cuban People. The Standard of Living in Cuba went up. Batista was a huge supporter of organized labor in Cuba, and the Labor reforms that He and his successors enacted greatly improved the lives of the urban workforce, though sadly at the expense of the rural, farming peasants.

I get the idea that your opposition to Batista is mostly due to Batista's friendship towards the USA, a friendship he shared with MANY of the Cuban people in the first half of the 20th century. I also get the idea that your hero-worship of Castro was due to his extreme opposition to the USA. In other words, you just hate the USA.

It seems as if (because of your frequent mention and condemnation of foreign ownership of agricultural land in Cuba) you oppose Globalism, as I do... But perhaps for different reasons, I dunno.

As I said, both Batista and Castro did some amount of good things for the Cuban People. However, both did a lot of BAD things too.

I am too young to have known Batista while he was dictator of Cuba, so I have no frame of reference to judge how nice a person he was... But Castro?? He and I DID exchange a few letters and he seemed a nice enough guy. But, international politics was in the way of me liking him very much. But, I never met him in person, unlike a lot of other world leaders (including the then-rulers of both the PRC and the USSR).

I am NOT saying that the USA has always done the right thing. In fact, I am among the first to admit we have not (and point to examples), both domestically and internationally, over the course of our history.

BUT, the Cuban Government under Castro has it's share of naughty behavior as well (again, both domestically and internationally) since Castro took over.

I admit that Castro has done some amount of good for the Cuban people. Why do you not admit that Batista did as well? But, I do say that, on the whole, BOTH were BAD (Repression, Suppression, Oppression) for the Cubans.

Oh, and by the way, I have been in favor of ending the economic... measures the USA took against Cuba, for quite some time now... They were designed to be effective against the USSR, by making the USSR support Cuba, further helping to bankrupt the USSR.

Once the USSR failed, went bankrupt, and disintegrated in late 1991, there was no more NEED to cause the Cubans misery because of the bad decision of Castro in being pro-USSR. Besides, the Cubans make the best cigars in the world, and you have NO idea how hard it was to get ahold of them in the USA.

It is WELL past time for the USA and Cuba to put our past hatreds behind us and if not become allies then at least be friendly towards one another and cooperate where it would benefit us BOTH.
https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE

#Texit

Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016.

Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power.
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Message 1863789 - Posted: 26 Apr 2017, 17:49:19 UTC - in response to Message 1863784.  
Last modified: 26 Apr 2017, 18:14:51 UTC

Major, people like Clyde can't go forward.
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Message 1863790 - Posted: 26 Apr 2017, 17:53:17 UTC - in response to Message 1863784.  

It is WELL past time for the USA and Cuba to put our past hatreds behind us and if not become allies then at least be friendly towards one another and cooperate where it would benefit us BOTH.

+1
I think I will go to the Cuban bar next block to me and have a Mojito.
No cigars though because we cannot smoke in bars any more...
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Message 1863798 - Posted: 26 Apr 2017, 18:49:52 UTC

Just for Clyde...

Once the USSR failed, went bankrupt, and disintegrated in late 1991, there was no more NEED to cause the Cubans misery because of the bad decision of Castro in being pro-USSR. Besides, the Cubans make the best cigars in the world, and you have NO idea how hard it was to get a hold of them in the USA.

It is WELL past time for the USA and Cuba to put our past hatreds behind us and if not become allies then at least be friendly towards one another and cooperate where it would benefit us BOTH.
...with your knowledge & experience isn't it time you made sensible comments as that, or is everything thing you've said a plain bare-faced lie?

As for the quote, Well Said MK.
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Message 1863962 - Posted: 27 Apr 2017, 14:48:53 UTC - in response to Message 1863956.  

Sorry Pro-Oppressing (Cuban People Drop Dead) Marxist Dictator posters. Your beliefs, for good reason. Have again been shown to be the Enemy of Humanity.
So you agree that tRump belongs in that grouping as he wishes to restore sanctions & embargoes.
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Message 1864241 - Posted: 28 Apr 2017, 12:21:58 UTC - in response to Message 1864169.  

Nobody is denying what you say, just asking you a question:

Where does it state that those who comment support such a system?

As for calling people scum, you are a Nam Vet are you not?
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Message boards : Politics : Cuba


 
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