Ireland's Shame

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bobby
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Message 1854211 - Posted: 10 Mar 2017, 0:03:11 UTC - in response to Message 1854194.  
Last modified: 10 Mar 2017, 0:03:57 UTC

I think Mr kevvy is 1/2 right at least about Russia China and Nth Korea but the other so call secular states aren't really secular even if we tell our self's they are .

Queen of England is head of state and head of the Church of England so not really truly secular
American has "In god we trust " in big letter behind the speaker chair and well I think every one knows the Bible belt has a lot of influence


if you re-read my post, I was pretty clear that Great Britain (including England) is not secular. It has an official state church as you noted, which even has seats in parliament (I see Bobby already also noted this.) Religious Americans should relish their secularity, as an official state religion in Britain has caused Christianity to decline to 42% of the population... fully half now identify as non-religious/atheist/agnostic, whereas in the U.S. about 90% identify as religious. This is simple human nature... people tend to dislike being told what to think/believe (isn't this supposed to be a "conservative" tenet as well?)


As far as IGWT and the "under God" in the Pledge, SCOTUS has ruled that this is "ceremonial deism" (where's the balancing ceremonial adeism, hmm?) So this would be the "official religion" of the U.S.... it has no worshippers, no buildings, no holy book, no holidays, and consists merely of putting the word "God" in places it wasn't. Not much of a religion I would conclude,

I didn't have to, nor did I, say "God" when I swore the Oath Solemn Affirmation of Allegiance during the naturalization ceremony, even ceremonial deism has an out in the US ...
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1854212 - Posted: 10 Mar 2017, 0:05:47 UTC - in response to Message 1854206.  


Glenn. Didn't you read this?


Yes I just did hehehehe

It was written back in 1900 I think when all the states became a federation not that it really means much if the poms ask us to join them again in another war there not going to get the same response they got back in ww1 or ww2 after Gallipoli campaign things changed and we don't do what mother England says anymore , back then we where sheep now not so much . Now if only the Pm would tell that annoying country that keeps getting us involved with there wars to go and jump I would be very happy . Maybe when we get some of our own Nukes we can tell them to Hiss off :)
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Message 1854235 - Posted: 10 Mar 2017, 2:05:09 UTC - in response to Message 1854194.  

whereas in the U.S. about 90% identify as religious.
Somewhat less now http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/ 22.8% claim none.
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Message 1854341 - Posted: 10 Mar 2017, 12:08:13 UTC - in response to Message 1854235.  

Somewhat less now http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/ 22.8% claim none.


Thanks... that is quite a large change from what I remembered a few years ago. (Also that is from Pew and they can't be said to be biased in that direction either.)
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Message 1854357 - Posted: 10 Mar 2017, 14:19:27 UTC

Although Sweden is one of the most secular countries are there in any case, one thing that most Swedes believe in: waste separation.
In the United States and Southern Europe people go to church on Sundays.
In Sweden you fill the station wagon with waste and drive to the recycling station.
The difference is not as great as it first sounds.
You feel you are doing something good, you atone for your sins .
Under recent years, demands for orthodoxy has sharpened.
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Message 1854364 - Posted: 10 Mar 2017, 14:41:08 UTC

Irish comedian Dave Allen tells a series of religious jokes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYXenjpefNU
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Message 1854369 - Posted: 10 Mar 2017, 15:07:07 UTC - in response to Message 1854259.  

When ethical and moral people, finally toss their hate into the toilet of history. We can then have a real discussion to solve our problems.

Can't be that moral or ethical then, can they?
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Message 1854375 - Posted: 10 Mar 2017, 15:17:55 UTC - in response to Message 1854371.  

When ethical and moral people, finally toss their hate into the toilet of history. We can then have a real discussion to solve our problems.

Can't be that moral or ethical then, can they?

I guess that being Anti-Nazi, Anti-KKK, et al. Is neither a moral or ethical position to Sirius B.

Sirius B...

If I am incorrect. Please explain your post.

You're the one that needs to explain.

Explain the first line on this post (the one quoting you).
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Message 1854385 - Posted: 10 Mar 2017, 15:39:55 UTC - in response to Message 1854378.  

When ethical and moral people, finally toss their hate into the toilet of history. We can then have a real discussion to solve our problems.

Can't be that moral or ethical then, can they?

I guess that being Anti-Nazi, Anti-KKK, et al. Is neither a moral or ethical position to Sirius B.

Sirius B...

If I am incorrect. Please explain your post.

You're the one that needs to explain.

Explain the first line on this post (the one quoting you).

My Belief, unlike yours. Is that the Nazi, KKK, and other hate filled beliefs. Must be tossed, by the ethical and moral people, into the toilet.

Your non answer, to why it isn't moral nor ethical to to this.

Confirms what I am saying.

BTW: Loving this exposure of Sirius B.


Looks like the question being raised by Sirius is how can an ethical and/or moral person have hate to toss in the first place? If a moral and/or ethical person can have hate, how moral or ethical are they? If a moral and/or ethical person cannot have hate, then they have none to toss. Either way, the line Sirius is highlighting might need some further explanation.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1854386 - Posted: 10 Mar 2017, 15:40:36 UTC - in response to Message 1854378.  

When ethical and moral people, finally toss their hate into the toilet of history. We can then have a real discussion to solve our problems.

My Belief, unlike yours. Is that the Nazi, KKK, and other hate filled beliefs. Must be tossed, by the ethical and moral people, into the toilet.

Unless my comprehension has gone whacko, those are two different statements.

You really do need to cease projecting your beliefs on to others.
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Message 1854394 - Posted: 10 Mar 2017, 15:56:03 UTC - in response to Message 1854391.  

Either way, the line Sirius is highlighting might need some further explanation.

Sirius B... Who attacks a poster, who attacks the belief system of Nazi's, KKK and other Hatefilled Idologies. Attacks a Poster who believes that it is Morally and Ethically correct. To wish to have these Disgusting, Mass Murdering, Mass Enslaving Beliefs flushed down the toilet.

And including bobby's Post.

Confirms what I have been saying.

Keep up your disingenuous 'arguments'. You have already exposed your Real Beliefs.

Nobody is attacking you Clyde, just the stupidity you post.
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Message 1854400 - Posted: 10 Mar 2017, 16:03:22 UTC - in response to Message 1854396.  

Either way, the line Sirius is highlighting might need some further explanation.

Sirius B... Who attacks a poster, who attacks the belief system of Nazi's, KKK and other Hatefilled Idologies. Attacks a Poster who believes that it is Morally and Ethically correct. To wish to have these Disgusting, Mass Murdering, Mass Enslaving Beliefs flushed down the toilet.

And including bobby's Post.

Confirms what I have been saying.

Keep up your disingenuous 'arguments'. You have already exposed your Real Beliefs.

Nobody is attacking you Clyde, just the stupidity you post.

I won the Intellectual Argument.

Sirius B... Won the name calling contest.

What argument?

This thread is regarding my country's shame, which to this day is still continuing because the state is still stuck up the ass of the church to a degree.

WHO mentioned Nazi's, kkk, et al & what do they have to do with Ireland?
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Message 1854402 - Posted: 10 Mar 2017, 16:07:48 UTC - in response to Message 1854386.  

When ethical and moral people, finally toss their hate into the toilet of history. We can then have a real discussion to solve our problems.

My Belief, unlike yours. Is that the Nazi, KKK, and other hate filled beliefs. Must be tossed, by the ethical and moral people, into the toilet.

Unless my comprehension has gone whacko, those are two different statements.

You really do need to cease projecting your beliefs on to others.

It seems to me that by questioning CLYDE's statement, he takes it as meaning you disagree with his view that moral and/or ethical people must toss hate, which in turn means that you do not believe hate must be tossed, which in turn means you value hate ... That CLYDE has no evidence to support any of these allegations doesn't really matter to him or apparently the mods, because he's found a way to make such accusations without arising their attention. It's a simple trick:

CLYDE: A = B
Other poster: Why do you believe A = B
CLYDE: Why do you think A != B? (if you don't believe A != B, then you wouldn't question my earlier A = B statement, thus you must be a hateful A != B type person)
Other poster: Why do you accuse me of being hateful?
CLYDE: A = B
ad infinitum ..
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1854404 - Posted: 10 Mar 2017, 16:11:18 UTC - in response to Message 1854393.  
Last modified: 10 Mar 2017, 16:11:28 UTC

2. The US is a country which does not "respect" any one religion but was formed on the basis of "the Law's of Nature" and "Nature's God." ...


The phrase "the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God" does appear in the Declaration of Independence, but this is not a legal document. An influential one to be sure, but has no actual legal standing. The formative document with supreme legal standing is the Constitution.
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Message 1854405 - Posted: 10 Mar 2017, 16:12:54 UTC - in response to Message 1854402.  

Well when one has retired, one has to do something with their time :-)
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Message 1854406 - Posted: 10 Mar 2017, 16:13:36 UTC - in response to Message 1854386.  

When ethical and moral people, finally toss their hate into the toilet of history. We can then have a real discussion to solve our problems.

My Belief, unlike yours. Is that the Nazi, KKK, and other hate filled beliefs. Must be tossed, by the ethical and moral people, into the toilet.

Unless my comprehension has gone whacko, those are two different statements.

You really do need to cease projecting your beliefs on to others.

I think that the "their" in CLYDE's first statement was referring to the beliefs of the groups mentioned in the preceding sentences (i.e. the "Left" and the "Right"). CLYDE's sentence construction is often awkward (two examples: he quite often punctuates sentences with full stops, as seen in the quote above; and he makes frequent use of inappropriate capitalisation), which can lead to misinterpretation.

That said, my question for CLYDE is: please explain how the hate-filled beliefs of anyone be "tossed into the toilet" by others who are not them? I consider myself moral and ethical - I really do! - but I have no idea how I could possible take some radical nut-job's core beliefs and "throw them away", unless I entered the dystopian realm of A Clockwork Orange, which would render me ... decidedly amoral and unethical!
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Message 1854407 - Posted: 10 Mar 2017, 16:23:59 UTC - in response to Message 1854393.  

The OP of this thread posted a veiled "hate" message (by posting a link only with no comment attached) for religion by pointing out an organization which did something against their doctrine--therefore implying all religion is hypocrisy.

Umm, then we read a different article. The person doing the investigation used ireland's Freedom of Information act to review government documents relating to a care home. You might notice that I plus oned Sirius's comment about the marriage of Church and State ...

Couple of points...

1. OP also implies he might have run from England because of the religion which is "respected" by the government. You *moved* away from that which you did not like. ...nothing wrong with this. The US did this in the 18th century and finally pushed them away by force.

"run from" is implied where?

2. The US is a country which does not "respect" any one religion but was formed on the basis of "the Law's of Nature" and "Nature's God." We didn't start off saying anything implying this would be absolutely banned from all government. We started off with the idea that "to each his own with respect to your GOD", and we acknowledged there are some *commonalities* among our beliefs.

3. How do we make as many people (believers and non-believers) as happy as possible? By creating a union of sovereign states, and creating a federal government which only has the power to do things that only a federal government *can* do and allowing the sovereign states to handle everything else they *can* handle.

4. Back to the subject of moving... since we were created as a union of sovereign states with no real borders, if you don't like the state you're in, YOU CAN FREELY MOVE. In this on-going experiment, successful states thrive and failed states have the opportunity to self-correct.

5. But the liberal/democrat/socialist/marxist/communists want to do away with this most successful formula for self government and centralize all power and control so they can dictate how everyone lives their lives down to the most minute detail even though there are countless examples of its failure through out human history.

It's the non-believers who are pushing to start a civil war. Just because you don't believe doesn't give you a right to force others to go into hiding. Believers might go into hiding, but they'll never go away.

If you want to stop all references to religion, move to california and start asking your state legislature why a JOP wedding still has religious overtones.

bobby "snowflake", you probably claim to be moral and ethical, but you are displaying hate. You are projecting your different beliefs on others.

If I have made that claim, please find and post the link to it, claims are cheap, it's deeds that make the man. As for projection "run from"?

You liberal/democrat/socialist/marxist/communists need to toss your hate into the toilet of history.

Heh, I see the chemist of computer science has not given up on name calling (and yes, this statement is is intentionally ironic).
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1854408 - Posted: 10 Mar 2017, 16:28:33 UTC - in response to Message 1854406.  
Last modified: 10 Mar 2017, 16:28:50 UTC

AH that may be true but peasant I am know that nails that stick out are hazardous.

The 2 nails in this case that need hammering are "intellectual" "history professor". :-)

Surely such an "intellectual" would understand comprehension & word their statements accordingly?
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