Panic Mode On (105) Server Problems?

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Grant (SSSF)
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Message 1857371 - Posted: 24 Mar 2017, 7:49:21 UTC - in response to Message 1857368.  

The outage was still in effect. According to the server status page at the time, there were 5 programs disabled & 7 not running. What's difficult to understand about that & why is an explanation needed, when the answer is on the server status page?

?
Since no one has expressed concern about not knowing that the project was still undergoing maintenance I don't understand what your point is?

When I looked at the Server Status page after the usual return to service time the only system showing as down was the data driven web pages on muarae1- ie the forums, accounts, settings, and of course the Database/file status listing. Everything else showed as running, so there should have been work available, but there wasn't.
It would nice to know just what the issue was, it would also be nice to know why a 8-10 hour weekly outage lasted for almost 2 full days. It's not the end of the world if we don't find out, it's just that it would be nice to know. Some of us are curious. Curiosity is one of the reasons some of us chose this project.
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Message 1857373 - Posted: 24 Mar 2017, 8:06:54 UTC - in response to Message 1857371.  

At the time the scheduler came up (06:38 P.S.T.) there were still 5 disabled & 7 not running. The main being the data driven web pages.

Disabled: Program has been disabled by staff (for debugging/maintenance)


So Synergy was up & running & some lucky folks managed to get some work at that time, but the outage was still in effect. So why all the crying about no work available?

btw, curiosity killed the cat!
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Message 1857380 - Posted: 24 Mar 2017, 9:01:36 UTC - in response to Message 1857373.  

At the time the scheduler came up (06:38 P.S.T.) there were still 5 disabled & 7 not running. The main being the data driven web pages.
[quote]Disabled: Program has been disabled by staff (for debugging/maintenance)

I have no idea what time the Scheduler came up, and it's not relevant.
I only know that when I checked out the Server status pages the only one disabled was the data driven web pages- which have no impact on the ability to produce, send, receive, validate, assimilate work.

So Synergy was up & running & some lucky folks managed to get some work at that time, but the outage was still in effect. So why all the crying about no work available?

The project was undergoing maintenance.
Maintenance on the data driven web page services doesn't impact work supply. But there was an issue with work supply, even though the server status page showed all the necessary servers and processes running.

Why do you find it necessary to denigrate anyone that comments on or asks questions about project issues? If I were crying or moaning about things, this would be an entirely different discussion.
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Message 1857381 - Posted: 24 Mar 2017, 9:17:17 UTC - in response to Message 1857380.  

Easy answer.

What is the main premise of the Seti project with regards to workunits?

Next question:

Is Seti as big as these:

Microsoft
Apple
Amazon
Google

Next question:

HOW many people in the Seti Project?

Next question:

Are they robots or real people?

Next question:

Do they work 24/7?
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Message 1857382 - Posted: 24 Mar 2017, 9:23:27 UTC - in response to Message 1857381.  

Easy answer.

Easy answer to what?
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Message 1857383 - Posted: 24 Mar 2017, 9:25:43 UTC - in response to Message 1857382.  

Easy answer.

Easy answer to what?

Your question!
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Message 1857384 - Posted: 24 Mar 2017, 9:33:49 UTC - in response to Message 1857383.  

Easy answer.

Easy answer to what?

Your question!

I suspect that while we are using the same words, they have different meaning for each of us.

Your answer looked like it was in response to "Why does the project have so many problems?'
My question was "What happened?"
Now what happened could very well be as a result of the answer to the first question, but it doesn't actually tell us "What happened?"
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Message 1857385 - Posted: 24 Mar 2017, 9:52:17 UTC - in response to Message 1857384.  

Okay i'll do my best to answer you clearly enough.

Why do you find it necessary to denigrate anyone that comments on or asks questions about project issues? If I were crying or moaning about things, this would be an entirely different discussion.


To me at least, it seems that many only read but do not retain what they've read. I do to a very good degree.

I believe some considerable time ago that Brad Slavic started a thread in attempting to obtain a donation funded new server, which was successfully achieved. 2 things happened. Eric posted on that thread & his comment stayed with me. I cannot recall word for word what he posted without having to search back, but it was something along these lines:
It would be nice to have some super donator to provide the project with $22,000,000 so that the project will benefit from the annual interest to the tune of a few million.

The 2nd was that (October/November I believe) the project was offline until everything was good to go.

The 5 questions I posted were an attempt to get people to think of the project staff rather than themselves.

4 of those questions could probably be answered sufficiently to possibly make the project staff sit up & take notice.

However, the 1st question can not because of that very premise & Eric's comment as things stand currently, it looks like that premise is the number one answer to all of the projects ills at the moment, so look to all 5 of those questions then think of the staff.

I'll pose a final question:
Swap shoes as things stand - what would you be able to do to make things better?

I genuinely apologise to all that see my posts as offensive to you. It was not meant, but I do get tired of seeing the staff blasted as at the end of the day, they have done tremendously well with what they have.
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Message 1857392 - Posted: 24 Mar 2017, 10:17:30 UTC - in response to Message 1857385.  

they have done tremendously well with what they have.

I agree, I am fully aware that the funding doesn't even come close to what is required.

I do get tired of seeing the staff blasted

And where in the discussions and questions posted since the resumption of business from the outage has anyone had a go at the project or staff?
People have asked what happened? They've expressed their options of what they would like to happen, if possible.
They have been accused of moaning, crying, and told to "get over it". But where has anyone had a go at the project or the staff???


I'll pose a final question:
Swap shoes as things stand - what would you be able to do to make things better?

Not knowing what the issues are (hardware, software, staffing, all 3?) how can I answer that?
Seriously.

Without so much as an inkling of what the last few post weekly outage issues have been, let alone what caused them, there is no way I can answer that.
Doing so would be even less responsible than a person running for parliament for the first time, making all sorts of promises about this, that & the other, without even the slightest idea of the background information of the things they are promising because they've never been in parliament and so never briefed on the actual facts. All their present knowledge coming from The Sun or the Daily Mail or National Enquirer.

As you posted, and has been mentioned several times in the past, a huge injection of funds would make all the difference. But as to what can be done, with things as they stand? I don't know what the issues are so I couldn't even begin to make so much as an uneducated guess.
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Message 1857395 - Posted: 24 Mar 2017, 10:32:32 UTC - in response to Message 1857392.  

Regardless of whatever any issue is, the project itself DOES NOT guarantee workunits will be provided 24/7.

Taking that fact into account it would be simple to just crunch what's available & if one's cache is empty & the project is offline, crunch somewhere else as the project itself advises.

I'm just as curious as the next person, but when I see facts like the above, my curiosity is dampened as one of two things happen. The staff do or do not tell us what happened. It won't stop the workunits from flowing.

I get where you're coming from, but the point is...

...why bother when the 1st line of this post is the final answer for now.

For those who say that's not good enough, return to those 5 questions.
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Message 1857397 - Posted: 24 Mar 2017, 10:55:57 UTC - in response to Message 1857395.  
Last modified: 24 Mar 2017, 10:56:35 UTC

I get where you're coming from, but the point is...

...why bother when the 1st line of this post is the final answer for now.

Because there will always be new people here, and the project wants more & more of them. So unless the issues never arise (and unless someone here wins a few million in the lotto I don't see that happening any time soon), the questions will be asked over & over again. And suggestions will be made, over and over again.

Regardless of whether or not there is work available, people would like to know "What happened?" or "Why?" when there is work available, but they can't get any. An answer will reduce the number of times a particular question is asked, but they will still be asked. And even when there is no data to process, people will still ask why, what happened?

As long as the discussion is civil and those involved aren't attacking the project or the staff, I don't see why people should take issue with it and feel the need to have a go at those asking the questions or making the suggestions.
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Message 1857400 - Posted: 24 Mar 2017, 11:17:43 UTC - in response to Message 1857344.  

.... As it stands, two different speed GPUs of the same class [in the same system] are already problematic for estimates.

Al the more reason for Petri to send me his Ti, I would hate to see it cause problems!


:)

Stephen

:)
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Message 1857402 - Posted: 24 Mar 2017, 11:20:00 UTC - in response to Message 1857397.  

I see you've been answering some of my comments, but yet have to see anyone answering this:

What is the main premise of the Seti project with regards to workunits?

Until better funding, better hardware, more staff, that premise negates all questions.

Cannot understand why that has failed to be understood.

Maybe Seti v2 will proceed much better than V1 as many lessons will have been learned. Should it do so, it too will need better hardware & funding.

Also, don't forget our resident tech news staff member is no longer full time & only calls in when his other commitments allow him to do so.
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Message 1857403 - Posted: 24 Mar 2017, 11:26:57 UTC - in response to Message 1857357.  

Some folks set up backup projects for when Seti runs low on work.
I just let the crunchers take a little break if they run out during the outages.
Not that big a deal for a few hours or so.
And they just merrily pick back up when the servers catch their breath.

Meow.


. . Both are fine if either suits your philosophy. Personally I am loathe to run the PCs without work, I would like to keep the power bills down. But turning them off is an unacceptable solution because then they are not available to do the work they are intended for when Seti work resumes. And as someone else pointed out, E@H has helped the S@H project by making needed resources available to it. So the least I can do is return the favour by doing as much crunching for E@H as I can while ever there is no work for Seti. So option a) is my choice and one shared by many others. Hence the rueful jests about meeting at the Einstein bar and grill.

. . Good fortune and effective crunching for all ...

Stephen

:)
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Message 1857404 - Posted: 24 Mar 2017, 11:35:55 UTC - in response to Message 1857368.  

If there is no data to crunch, then it's not there. It can't be crunched. It's not an issue.
What is an issue is that there is data to be crunched, and it can't be processed because we can't get it.

The outage was still in effect. According to the server status page at the time, there were 5 programs disabled & 7 not running. What's difficult to understand about that & why is an explanation needed, when the answer is on the server status page?


. . The question on people's mind is why are those servers/splitters still down not if. Because as previously stated, if there is a hardware issue then many people would be happy to try and rouse a fund raising fervor to get the readies to rectify the issue. There is a certain allegiance to this project because it reaches a strong motivation in the minds of many people, a curiosity to know the otherwise unknowable. Unless someone can come up with a transwarp drive instead :)

Stephen

:)
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Message 1857405 - Posted: 24 Mar 2017, 11:39:12 UTC - in response to Message 1857373.  

At the time the scheduler came up (06:38 P.S.T.) there were still 5 disabled & 7 not running. The main being the data driven web pages.

Disabled: Program has been disabled by staff (for debugging/maintenance)


So Synergy was up & running & some lucky folks managed to get some work at that time, but the outage was still in effect. So why all the crying about no work available?

btw, curiosity killed the cat!


. . Does that mean that you like Kitty Man are a feline based life form ??

:)
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Message 1857406 - Posted: 24 Mar 2017, 11:41:39 UTC - in response to Message 1857403.  

+1

However, you have mentioned an issue that the project was unable to handle & advances in technology only compounded - dedicated crunchers operating 24/7.

So as I see it there are 2 golden rules for this project until matters get better:

1: Workunits not available 24/7

2: Crunch other projects when Seti is offline
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Message 1857407 - Posted: 24 Mar 2017, 11:45:01 UTC - in response to Message 1857405.  

At the time the scheduler came up (06:38 P.S.T.) there were still 5 disabled & 7 not running. The main being the data driven web pages.

Disabled: Program has been disabled by staff (for debugging/maintenance)


So Synergy was up & running & some lucky folks managed to get some work at that time, but the outage was still in effect. So why all the crying about no work available?

btw, curiosity killed the cat!


. . Does that mean that you like Kitty Man are a feline based life form ??

:)

Naw, my rig is though. It purrs along nicely on Seti food until I change brands :-)
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Message 1857409 - Posted: 24 Mar 2017, 11:46:05 UTC

we have to do with the seti@home limits of 100wu / CPU /GPU

perhaps a only one efficient rig who needs 400wu CPU /GPU /(the time of the outage) is too strong for that !

divide it into 4 differents and separate rigs who only needs 100Wu CPU/GPU /(the time of the outage) could be better to avoid run out of Wu

the Rac for the same user account will be the same ,
just separated in 4,
power consume should be the same,
perhaps need less money for example to buy four 400W psu / than only one 1600W psu ?
4 non high end user Mobo could be less expensive,
and then ,
on four rigs , you can avoid a big hardware outage and a big wu loss ?

the bigger could not be the better in this case ?
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Message 1857410 - Posted: 24 Mar 2017, 12:03:56 UTC - in response to Message 1857381.  

Easy answer.

What is the main premise of the Seti project with regards to workunits?

Que?

Next question:
Is Seti as big as these:
Microsoft
Apple
Amazon
Google

. . Hmmmm let me think about that one ................. ummm ... No! .... So?

Next question:
HOW many people in the Seti Project?

. . Clarification needed! Do you mean as volunteer crunchers or staff at SETI base at Berkeley?

Next question:
Are they robots or real people?

. . Well I'm an android, I don't know about you :) . I hope you do not have a cybernetic prejudice :) .
. . I will interpret this as a follow on to the previous question and assume it is staff at Seti Base you are referring to. So the answers are:
a) not many and b) to the best of my knowledge they are human. But with all the research at the uni they could be like Sheldon Cooper and no one is really sure.
. . I understand your point and yes most of us understand that the SETI project is a small part of their duties, so the time they devote to it is a labour of love and/or curiosity. But this is true for many of the volunteer crunchers not to mention contributors like Raistmer, Petri, TBar, Richard and others past and present. If the demands on their time are beyond a reasonable level and they cannot provide updates then so be it. But that does not make it wrong for other volunteers to pose the questions. Sometime there may be answers.


Next question:
Do they work 24/7?

. . I suspect for some of them it often seems so. I am fairly confident that most ppl here appreciate the efforts they put into this pursuit, and that they reciprocate. At least I hope so. But it is human nature to seek answers to the questions that intrigue you the most, and isn't that why we are all here?

Stephen

?
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Message boards : Number crunching : Panic Mode On (105) Server Problems?


 
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