Wouldn't it be more beneficial to put all that effort into cracking down on financial & tax frauds?

Well I see the circular argument is being presented again.

Can't check IDs because that's voter suppression.

Can't check for voter fraud because you can't check IDs.

Since there's no evidence of voter fraud, that means there's no need to check.

yada yada yada... followed by *SEXIST* personal attacks since they're losing the intellectual argument again. Go ahead, tell a woman you're losing an intellectual argument with that maybe they have an excess of estrogen and progesterone, or maybe a shortage of testosterone and say that's not SEXIST.

Voter fraud helps the democrats; that's why they're fighting against checking for it.

Where is the evidence for large scale voter fraud. Even in Kansas, the state of Secretary of State Kris Kobach (R), has only found 9 suspected cases out of 1.8 million registered voters. http://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article148434369.html see also http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/editorials/article77519827.html

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Well I see the circular argument is being presented again.

Can't check IDs because that's voter suppression.

Can't check for voter fraud because you can't check IDs.

Since there's no evidence of voter fraud, that means there's no need to check.

yada yada yada... followed by *SEXIST* personal attacks since they're losing the intellectual argument again. Go ahead, tell a woman you're losing an intellectual argument with that maybe they have an excess of estrogen and progesterone, or maybe a shortage of testosterone and say that's not SEXIST.

Voter fraud helps the democrats; that's why they're fighting against checking for it.

Where is the evidence for large scale voter fraud. Even in Kansas, the state of Secretary of State Kris Kobach (R), has only found 9 suspected cases out of 1.8 million registered voters. http://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article148434369.html see also http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/editorials/article77519827.html

The reality is they don't believe the principals of the founding fathers. Better to let ten guilty men go than convict one innocent man. To them, better to suppress one million legitimate votes than allow one fraudulent vote.

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The reality is they don't believe the principals of the founding fathers. Better to let ten guilty men go than convict one innocent man. To them, better to suppress one million legitimate votes than allow one fraudulent vote.

Exactly

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Hmmmmm.
Looks like the snowflakes at CNN have stepped in it again. Maybe big time.
Did CNN commit a crime? Cruz suggests warning to Reddit user poses legal problem.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

As betreger doesn't understand:
Unless we can verify that the person is who they say they are. Unless we can verify that the person lives in the District they vote and is a Citizen...
Well... See the problem of stopping voter fraud.

That's not a problem on a micro or macro level, you are creating a straw man argument.

I think not.
Voter fraud is real.
Both in the US and Russia.
Sorry to say I have no proofs of neither countries does it.
But there are many video clips on the Internet showing how it works!

There are also video clips purporting to show UFOs and claims that NASA has child sex slave colonies on Mars. (With no life on Mars, how they produced cheese for the enticing pizza is beyond me.) So, clearly, not all videos are to be believed. If one person can claim Hollywood faked the Moon landings, what's to stop me from believing purported evidence of voter fraud is not also faked? It'd be easier to make such a video, wouldn't it?
My problems with Trump administration demands?
1) Who was ever told, when moving, you have to un-register in the old place? I never ever heard that. Just register once at your new home. Not my fault if the previous state hasn't noticed I haven't voted there in 8 years.
2) What business is it of theirs what my voting record back to 2004 or 2006 is? If it's their business, why do we even have secret ballots in the first place and why aren't they then asking for my voting history in its entirety?!?

Cheese?
Wallace - Everybody Knows The Moon's Made of Cheese
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0qagA4_eVQ

You apparently haven't looked at the CCTV videos from the last election in Russia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRqEMIdSDGE

Focus on

1) Who was ever told, when moving, you have to un-register in the old place? I never ever heard that. Just register once at your new home. Not my fault if the previous state hasn't noticed I haven't voted there in 8 years.
2) What business is it of theirs what my voting record back to 2004 or 2006 is? If it's their business, why do we even have secret ballots in the first place and why aren't they then asking for my voting history in its entirety?!?

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

And each citizen should only be allowed to vote once. And if citizens need to show an ID card for dozens of other services/goods, then showing an ID to vote is not a problem today. Period. bill

A tattoo on the forehead or wrist would be much more efficient.

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And each citizen should only be allowed to vote once. And if citizens need to show an ID card for dozens of other services/goods, then showing an ID to vote is not a problem today. Period. bill

A tattoo on the forehead or wrist would be much more efficient.

Ooooh, the Mark of The ... !

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

Of course, Steve Bannon, President Popular Vote Loser's right-hand man in the White House, is registered to vote in two states—New York and Florida. One of the Trump offspring, Tiffany, is registered in both New York and Pennsylvania. Trump Treasury secretary nominee Steve Mnuchin is registered in both New York and California. And there are two more double dippers in Trump’s corner: son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner is registered in New York and New Jersey, and Baghdad Sean Spicer is registered in Rhode Island and Virginia. Presumably all five voted Republican.

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Of course, Steve Bannon, President Popular Vote Loser's right-hand man in the White House, is registered to vote in two states—New York and Florida. One of the Trump offspring, Tiffany, is registered in both New York and Pennsylvania. Trump Treasury secretary nominee Steve Mnuchin is registered in both New York and California. And there are two more double dippers in Trump’s corner: son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner is registered in New York and New Jersey, and Baghdad Sean Spicer is registered in Rhode Island and Virginia. Presumably all five voted Republican.

Why aren't these felons serving time?

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Of course, Steve Bannon, President Popular Vote Loser's right-hand man in the White House, is registered to vote in two states—New York and Florida. One of the Trump offspring, Tiffany, is registered in both New York and Pennsylvania. Trump Treasury secretary nominee Steve Mnuchin is registered in both New York and California. And there are two more double dippers in Trump’s corner: son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner is registered in New York and New Jersey, and Baghdad Sean Spicer is registered in Rhode Island and Virginia. Presumably all five voted Republican.

Why aren't these felons serving time?

Al Sharpton knows, ask him.

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...

On looking around I notice that just about every case of alleged voter fraud in 2016, was committed by a republican. Could it be that by convincing his core supporters that there was going to be "massive voter fraud" by the democrats, they decided to do their little bit to offset it to get the fakepresident into power, or is it his core supporters have a higher than average number of criminals.

I also see it reported, in several places, that 44 states have now said they will not release all of the data requested, without looking further, I can only assume that this is only bad news if you live in the states that will submit their data to the Secretary of State Kris Kobach, presumably these are deep red states that voted for the Fakepresident, so that's not going to upset many people.

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On looking around I notice that just about every case of alleged voter fraud in 2016, was committed by a republican. Could it be that by convincing his core supporters that there was going to be "massive voter fraud" by the democrats, they decided to do their little bit to offset it to get the fakepresident into power, or is it his core supporters have a higher than average number of criminals.

I also see it reported, in several places, that 44 states have now said they will not release all of the data requested, without looking further, I can only assume that this is only bad news if you live in the states that will submit their data to the Secretary of State Kris Kobach, presumably these are deep red states that voted for the Fakepresident, so that's not going to upset many people.

I have also heard 40+ to 44. (You beat me to it.) Maybe it's fake news? Maybe 44 states have agreed to provide the info?
But, if it's true, what do Democrats AND Republicans, now, have to hide? Hmmm, Clyde?

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

On looking around I notice that just about every case of alleged voter fraud in 2016, was committed by a republican. Could it be that by convincing his core supporters that there was going to be "massive voter fraud" by the democrats, they decided to do their little bit to offset it to get the fakepresident into power, or is it his core supporters have a higher than average number of criminals.

I also see it reported, in several places, that 44 states have now said they will not release all of the data requested, without looking further, I can only assume that this is only bad news if you live in the states that will submit their data to the Secretary of State Kris Kobach, presumably these are deep red states that voted for the Fakepresident, so that's not going to upset many people.

I have also heard 40+ to 44. (You beat me to it.) Maybe it's fake news? Maybe 44 states have agreed to provide the info?
But, if it's true, what do Democrats AND Republicans, now, have to hide? Hmmm, Clyde?

Well, there are... issues... with providing some of the information that vice-chairman Kobach requested. He even requested it KNOWING that he, himself, as Kansas Secretary of State could not legally provide it from Kansas.

But, I agree... Both the Democrats and the Republicans do voter fraud, and neither one wishes to end the practice.

Some of the requested information is publicly available. Anyone can get it. The States provide it, on their official websites. Other parts requested it is illegal to provide it. Mostly due to State laws, but in at least one case, Federal laws (the last-4-SSN), for reasons of privacy and combating identity theft. We have four choices in how we proceed. Ignore it, which is what has pretty much been done up to now. Second we can get each individual State to amend its laws (and Congress to do likewise with its law(s)). This will be a long process due to resistance from the D's and R's. Third, we can have a nice court battle, ending up with the US Supreme Court ordering the release, but this will take a long time too (years) due to how long it would take the case to go through the legal system. Fourth, we can change the US Constitution. Again, years.

There is not much else that can be done. Remember, the Federal Government does NOT conduct any elections nationally. There are NO national offices directly elected by the People. ALL elections are State elections, as it should be.

The Constitution does not give the Federal Government with VERY few exceptions (such as you can not deny voting to people solely on the basis of race) any power over elections. By the 10th amendment, therefore, the BULK of election laws are the province of the States, exclusively.

So, unless something changes, we are looking at a bloody long time, if ever, for anything to get done about it.

Sad, but it is what this intense rivalry for power between the two major parties (D's and R's) has done. I find myself wishing that we had listened to George Washington.

George Washington wrote:

All obstructions to the execution of the laws, all combinations and associations, under whatever plausible character, with the real design to direct, control, counteract, or awe the regular deliberation and action of the constituted authorities, are destructive of this fundamental principle, and of fatal tendency. They serve to organize faction, to give it an artificial and extraordinary force; to put, in the place of the delegated will of the nation the will of a party, often a small but artful and enterprising minority of the community; and, according to the alternate triumphs of different parties, to make the public administration the mirror of the ill-concerted and incongruous projects of faction, rather than the organ of consistent and wholesome plans digested by common counsels and modified by mutual interests.

However combinations or associations of the above description may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely, in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion.

Towards the preservation of your government, and the permanency of your present happy state, it is requisite, not only that you steadily discountenance irregular oppositions to its acknowledged authority, but also that you resist with care the spirit of innovation upon its principles, however specious the pretexts. One method of assault may be to effect, in the forms of the Constitution, alterations which will impair the energy of the system, and thus to undermine what cannot be directly overthrown. In all the changes to which you may be invited, remember that time and habit are at least as necessary to fix the true character of governments as of other human institutions; that experience is the surest standard by which to test the real tendency of the existing constitution of a country; that facility in changes, upon the credit of mere hypothesis and opinion, exposes to perpetual change, from the endless variety of hypothesis and opinion; and remember, especially, that for the efficient management of your common interests, in a country so extensive as ours, a government of as much vigor as is consistent with the perfect security of liberty is indispensable. Liberty itself will find in such a government, with powers properly distributed and adjusted, its surest guardian. It is, indeed, little else than a name, where the government is too feeble to withstand the enterprises of faction, to confine each member of the society within the limits prescribed by the laws, and to maintain all in the secure and tranquil enjoyment of the rights of person and property.

I have already intimated to you the danger of parties in the State, with particular reference to the founding of them on geographical discriminations. Let me now take a more comprehensive view, and warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of party generally.

This spirit, unfortunately, is inseparable from our nature, having its root in the strongest passions of the human mind. It exists under different shapes in all governments, more or less stifled, controlled, or repressed; but, in those of the popular form, it is seen in its greatest rankness, and is truly their worst enemy.

The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of public liberty.

Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight), the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.

It serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which finds a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.

There is an opinion that parties in free countries are useful checks upon the administration of the government and serve to keep alive the spirit of liberty. This within certain limits is probably true; and in governments of a monarchical cast, patriotism may look with indulgence, if not with favor, upon the spirit of party. But in those of the popular character, in governments purely elective, it is a spirit not to be encouraged. From their natural tendency, it is certain there will always be enough of that spirit for every salutary purpose. And there being constant danger of excess, the effort ought to be by force of public opinion, to mitigate and assuage it. A fire not to be quenched, it demands a uniform vigilance to prevent its bursting into a flame, lest, instead of warming, it should consume.

http://www.ushistory.org/documents/farewelladdress.htm

It was true back on Sept. 19, 1796 when George Washington wrote it, and it is true today, much to our regret.

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https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE

#Texit

Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016.

Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power.

This was an excellent post, MK. I'd only like to add that it should be expected in any system that there will be a percentage of people looking to take advantage of loopholes. It only depends on how much energy you want to expend on decreasing that percentage to as close to zero as you can, in this case at the cost of liberty over enforcement.

I do not think voter fraud requires this much energy and attention. It is mostly sore butts on both sides trying to make excuses for why they lost (in recent years that's been the R's). Does voter fraud happen? Undoubtedly. Is voter fraud bad? Yes, absolutely. Is it widespread causing major loses for any party? I seriously doubt it.

We truly have bigger things to worry about in this great country of ours. Much, much bigger things.

This was an excellent post, MK. I'd only like to add that it should be expected in any system that there will be a percentage of people looking to take advantage of loopholes. It only depends on how much energy you want to expend on decreasing that percentage to as close to zero as you can, in this case at the cost of liberty over enforcement.

I do not think voter fraud requires this much energy and attention. It is mostly sore butts on both sides trying to make excuses for why they lost (in recent years that's been the R's). Does voter fraud happen? Undoubtedly. Is voter fraud bad? Yes, absolutely. Is it widespread causing major loses for any party? I seriously doubt it.

We truly have bigger things to worry about in this great country of ours. Much, much bigger things.

Ditto.

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

We truly have bigger things to worry about in this great country of ours. Much, much bigger things.

Ditto.

Our obese leader with small hands doesn't think so, but his mission is to not have people look at the man behind the curtain.

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