Shooting 4 test missiles against Guam.
Is that a strategically move or a tactically move?

He may very well cause the orange one to crush N Korea, how the Chinese would react could be very bad, WWIII?

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Shooting 4 test missiles against Guam.
Is that a strategically move or a tactically move?

Tactical, wants to know how many he has to shoot to get past the ABM's.

Perhaps the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) ballistic missiles will now be tested for real.

I sincerely hope not because tRump is dumb enough to retaliate on launch of unarmed rockets and not wait to find out they are unarmed.
I believe there are multiple systems that can take them out. Japan has PAC-3, Standard Missile-3 Block IIa and the Aegis system. Our ships at sea also have the Aegis system. THAAD on Guam is another.
From an operational standpoint a real test would be desirable, there can be no chance if Kim might be sending warheads and even if Kim announced test missiles, he couldn't be believed.

I think that Kim Ping Pong will launch their 4 missiles against Guam but that the missiles will splash down as planed outside Guam's territorial border.
But that depends in how good the guidance system of their missiles are and if are they armed with any munition and hitting Guam by accident.

"It needs to make clear its stance to all sides and make them understand that when their actions jeopardize China's interests, China will respond with a firm hand," said the paper, which does not represent government policy.

"China should also make clear that if North Korea launches missiles that threaten U.S. soil first and the U.S. retaliates, China will stay neutral," it added.

Most importantly:

"If the U.S. and South Korea carry out strikes and try to overthrow the North Korean regime and change the political pattern of the Korean Peninsula, China will prevent them from doing so."

Which is only fair and reasonable on their part.

But now the US needs to announce a policy that due to the stated intention of the leaders of NOKO to destroy American property and lives we must, by necessity, consider ANY object launched from NOKO, on a ballistic trajectory that exceeds 75,000 feet in altitude, be considered an imminent threat to the United States or it's allies and thus be subject to targeting and destruction.

In addition if such an object actually reaches US territory or that of it's allies the launch facility and supporting infrastructure will be targeted and destroyed.

The important piece to this policy would be actual follow through if violated. Not a faux 'Red Line' like Obama was known for drawing.

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"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

I would hope that if NK launches those missiles, we can take them down.
And, I would hope that if we respond, we could do so with non-nuclear warheads.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

And, I would hope that if we respond, we could do so with non-nuclear warheads.

Absolutely! There are estimated to be in excess of 4,000 Cruise Missiles with conventional warheads in the operational vicinity.

In addition any launch intended to hit near Guam must have a trajectory that goes directly over Japan. The Japanese have already stated that such a launch would be considered a violation of their safety and possibly an act of war by NoKo against Japan.

Another question is can China be trusted to remain neutral if this turns into a tit for tat between NoKo and either SoKo or US or Japan or any combination thereof? China may 'Act to Stabilize the Situation' should a million or so NoKo refugees come flooding their way......

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"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

While some may consider it reassuring, I am not quite sure myself what 'remaining neutral' means exactly.
Except that China would not attack the US if we are not the aggressor.
Would they take things into their own hands to control the situation? I assume they would.
Not sure if that means they would go so far as to attack NK to do so. Or just tell the rest of the world to 'lay hands off'.
Of course, if Japan gets involved, we have yet another scenario.
And none of them pleasant to consider.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

This whole scenario scares the daylights out of me. It's true previous presidents did little, but we are all still alive.

Steve

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Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

This whole scenario scares the daylights out of me. It's true previous presidents did little, but we are all still alive.

Steve

A little street epistemology: so, you think still being alive is a good thing? :)

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

.......It's true previous presidents did little, but we are all still alive.

Steve

And have those 'previous presidents' to thank for the nuclear blackmailer we now have on our hands. Apparently the buck didn't stop with anyone from Eisenhower through Obama...........thanks, guys, for your forethought.

.......at least we're still alive..........for now.

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"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

.......It's true previous presidents did little, but we are all still alive.

Steve

And have those 'previous presidents' to thank for the nuclear blackmailer we now have on our hands. Apparently the buck didn't stop with anyone from Eisenhower through Obama...........thanks, guys, for your forethought.

.......at least we're still alive..........for now.

Glad to see you mention Republican Eisenhower, the root of the problem. Drew a line in the sand and used military. Always f's things up beyond recognition. Always comes back to bite you in the Rump.

The only answer is for the North to have its pyhric victory. The line in the sand has to vanish.

.......It's true previous presidents did little, but we are all still alive.

Steve

And have those 'previous presidents' to thank for the nuclear blackmailer we now have on our hands. Apparently the buck didn't stop with anyone from Eisenhower through Obama...........thanks, guys, for your forethought.

.......at least we're still alive..........for now.

Glad to see you mention Republican Eisenhower, the root of the problem. Drew a line in the sand and used military. Always f's things up beyond recognition. Always comes back to bite you in the Rump.

The only answer is for the North to have its pyhric victory. The line in the sand has to vanish.

Republican Reagan, that some think "Republican" Trump hearkens back to, is also on his list.

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

Republican Reagan, that some think "Republican" Trump hearkens back to, is also on his list.

Reagan and tRump don't belong in the same sentence. No wonder we are having earthquakes in California; Reagan is spinning in his grave.

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I know the average person in North Korea doesn't have access to real information about the outside world, but Kim and those closest to him surely do. I have trouble understanding the rationale for Kim continuing an isolationist policy for his country when he knows things could be much better for all the citizens(including himself) if he'd open up and play nice with everybody.

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The mind is a weird and mysterious place

I know the average person in North Korea doesn't have access to real information about the outside world, but Kim and those closest to him surely do. I have trouble understanding the rationale for Kim continuing an isolationist policy for his country when he knows things could be much better for all the citizens(including himself) if he'd open up and play nice with everybody.

Because without a constant enemy, they have no reason to exist. As long as we are perceived as a threat, they are happy, and feel justified to continue on. Their people would revolt if there wasn't an enemy that they needed protection from. Iran is the same way, but they are very ambitious, which is far more dangerous than isolated Kim, who is mostly concerned about his own survival.

Steve

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Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

SciManStev:

Because without a constant enemy, they have no reason to exist. As long as we are perceived as a threat, they are happy, and feel justified to continue on. Their people would revolt if there wasn't an enemy that they needed protection from. Iran is the same way, but they are very ambitious, which is far more dangerous than isolated Kim, who is mostly concerned about his own survival.

I definitely see your point, but it seems to me he would benefit along with everyone else. He could take credit for all the improvements in lifestyles. On the other hand, I guess some people might want to depose him, too. I guess I just fundamentally don't understand repressive regimes. It's a strange mindset to me. I don't understand why intelligent people turn twisted like that.


CLYDE:

Kim is a murdering, enslaving and torturing maniac. Who probably enjoys murdering, enslaving and torturing others. Just look at his smiling in the pictures. Are his terrorized Generals surrounding him usually smiling?

Why would anyone expect a Stalin, a Hitler, a Kim, or just your 'run of the mill' Child Murderer, Rapist, et al, to "play nice"?

Kim, who apparently doesn't get sufficient enjoyment in murdering, enslaving and torturing his own people. Must now, to fulfil his own inner evil, as Hitler and the others did. Terrorize millions more with murder.

Kim may be enjoying every moment.

Good point. Sad, but maybe true.

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The mind is a weird and mysterious place

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/11/politics/us-north-korea-strike-first/index.html

Within minutes of initiating the attack, US aircraft and artillery assets would also be forced to coordinate with allied forces to destroy the thousands of North Korean missile tubes pointed directly at the South Korean capital of Seoul.
And that would just be the beginning.
"The problem is not hitting North Korea, its what happens next," Joe Cirincione, president of the Ploughshare Fund, an organization working to stop nuclear proliferation, told CNN.
"You strike North Korea, they are going to strike back and they have a devastating conventional arsenal built up on the border that could lay waste to Seoul," he said. "Estimates are that hundreds of thousands of South Koreans would die in the first few hours of combat -- from artillery, from rockets, from short range missiles -- and if this war would escalate to the nuclear level, then you are looking at tens of millions of casualties and the destruction of the eleventh largest economy in the world."
"That's what you are going to roll the dice on," Cirincione added.

Steve

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Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/11/politics/us-north-korea-strike-first/index.html

Within minutes of initiating the attack, US aircraft and artillery assets would also be forced to coordinate with allied forces to destroy the thousands of North Korean missile tubes pointed directly at the South Korean capital of Seoul.
And that would just be the beginning.
"The problem is not hitting North Korea, its what happens next," Joe Cirincione, president of the Ploughshare Fund, an organization working to stop nuclear proliferation, told CNN.
"You strike North Korea, they are going to strike back and they have a devastating conventional arsenal built up on the border that could lay waste to Seoul," he said. "Estimates are that hundreds of thousands of South Koreans would die in the first few hours of combat -- from artillery, from rockets, from short range missiles -- and if this war would escalate to the nuclear level, then you are looking at tens of millions of casualties and the destruction of the eleventh largest economy in the world."
"That's what you are going to roll the dice on," Cirincione added.

Steve

Yeah, Steve.....
Any way you look at it, there is gonna be a hell of a price to pay to rid the world of a homicidal and suicidal maniac who cares not for the welfare of the rest of the world or his own people.
I hope that the situation can be diffused with the least amount of collateral damage and loss of innocent life as possible.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/11/politics/us-north-korea-strike-first/index.html

Within minutes of initiating the attack, US aircraft and artillery assets would also be forced to coordinate with allied forces to destroy the thousands of North Korean missile tubes pointed directly at the South Korean capital of Seoul.
And that would just be the beginning.
"The problem is not hitting North Korea, its what happens next," Joe Cirincione, president of the Ploughshare Fund, an organization working to stop nuclear proliferation, told CNN.
"You strike North Korea, they are going to strike back and they have a devastating conventional arsenal built up on the border that could lay waste to Seoul," he said. "Estimates are that hundreds of thousands of South Koreans would die in the first few hours of combat -- from artillery, from rockets, from short range missiles -- and if this war would escalate to the nuclear level, then you are looking at tens of millions of casualties and the destruction of the eleventh largest economy in the world."
"That's what you are going to roll the dice on," Cirincione added.

Steve

And the alt-right idiots elected tRump!

Kim's regime collapses without an enemy. He can't stay in power without an enemy. If it wasn't the USA it would be China, and China is deliriously happy it is the USA.

Perhaps we can invite a Chinese ship to the right location off Guam so parts of the rocket crash on it. Then millions can pour south across the Yalu river and deal with Kim.

Filthy stinking alt-right has no regard for human life, just look at their policies to strip away jobs, force people to stay in repressive regimes, pollute the planet, and end medical care. Now they want a war to kill millions or maybe even a billion. They compare to Pol Pot.

The alt-right is the biggest threat to humanity the planet has ever seen.

Sorry to tag on your post Steve because I think we agree.

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NOKO Strike First, China Does Nothing. USA Strikes First, China Responds. Result: HELL on Earth.

So, NOKO Attacks, there is Carte Blanche for USA and Allies to 'TURN NOKO INTO JELLY'.

CHINA is GENIUS. Stalemate continues and,

NOKO Continues to BUILD THEIR NUCLEAR ARSENAL and Becomes A HYPER POWER Equal to China and USA.

CHINA and NOKO have OUTSMARTED and CHECKMATED dA World.

They Get to BUILD a HYPER POWER to RIVAL dA World.

And dA World Watches.

And SHAKES, SWEATS and Does Nothing Until.....

Yap

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

Fault is Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, *, Carter, Reagan. Any and all should have gotten a peace treaty while it was possible. By the time Bush Sr. took office the deal was done and the Kim family knew it had won.
I give an extra measure of fault to Eisenhower for making the problem in the first place,
Kennedy, Nixon and Reagan also get an extra measure as they knew how to do diplomacy, look at their records.

Now our only option is surrender.



*I give Ford a pass due to the way in which he took office, too much other crap to distract,

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