US Elections 2016

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Message 1841531 - Posted: 12 Jan 2017, 0:11:51 UTC - in response to Message 1841502.  

Sirius it will take much more than 12 months to set back the changes made in the last 8 years. Economies and social changes move slower than that.

Or to fix the damages of the last 16 years.

No... 16 years is not a typo.


Your view, Clyde, of the time frame is a bit... short, in my opinion.

You have to go back a bit further than 16 years (with your implication of only Dubya and O'bummer doing the damage).

The damage did NOT start with these two.

And, no... I am not defending Trump. I called him a fascist dictator wannabe here MONTHS ago.

The damage started quite a bit before 2001. It started definitely no later than 1935, and a strong case can be made for it starting during an earlier Roosevelt's term in 1901. The rise of Progressiveism.
https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE

#Texit

Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016.

Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power.
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Message 1841552 - Posted: 12 Jan 2017, 2:00:32 UTC - in response to Message 1841543.  

Someone needs to go to jail. And that someone, maybe more than one, is in the intel community.

So how you gonna put a British subject in the USA in jail? Planning an extraordinary rendition?
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Message 1841558 - Posted: 12 Jan 2017, 2:47:18 UTC - in response to Message 1841555.  

Sirius it will take much more than 12 months to set back the changes made in the last 8 years. Economies and social changes move slower than that.

Or to fix the damages of the last 16 years.

No... 16 years is not a typo.


Your view, Clyde, of the time frame is a bit... short, in my opinion.

You have to go back a bit further than 16 years (with your implication of only Dubya and O'bummer doing the damage).

The damage did NOT start with these two.

And, no... I am not defending Trump. I called him a fascist dictator wannabe here MONTHS ago.

The damage started quite a bit before 2001. It started definitely no later than 1935, and a strong case can be made for it starting during an earlier Roosevelt's term in 1901. The rise of Progressiveism.

MK...

Of course the 'Time Frame' should have been longer. Just making a Non Political/Ideological point by including both Democrat and Republicans.

Disagree, for the most part, about 'Teddy'.

BTW: Love these Leftist attacks against this Anti Capitalist, Pro Women's Rights, Pro LGBTQ, Pro Individual Freedom, Anti Trump, Hillary Voter, Poster.

Just shows my observations of Freedom Destroying Left Wing and Progressive Ideology is correct.

BTW 2: I wonder if they would be calling me all these names. If I just limited my observations to the the equally Freedom Destroying Right Wing and KKK?


Clyde,
I might suggest that you change 'anti-capitalist' to 'anti-globalist-robber-baron-crony-capitalism'. You say you are 'pro-individual freedom'. Perhaps you do not know what 'Capitalism' really is. Capitalism, as an economic system, works. Combine Government power with it, and you get the mess (with all of its MANY faults) we have today.

Neuter Government, and capitalism's faults will disappear. Get the Government out of the economy, and we will ALL be better off.

Capitalism is the free, voluntary exchange of goods/services between individuals, each perceiving the transaction to be to their OWN benefit. Get Government power involved, and it is no longer free and voluntary, both essential parts of the system.
https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE

#Texit

Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016.

Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power.
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Message 1841559 - Posted: 12 Jan 2017, 3:15:52 UTC - in response to Message 1841558.  

Neuter Government, and capitalism's faults will disappear. Get the Government out of the economy, and we will ALL be better off.

Capitalism is the free, voluntary exchange of goods/services between individuals, each perceiving the transaction to be to their OWN benefit. Get Government power involved, and it is no longer free and voluntary, both essential parts of the system.

So said Ayn Rand.
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Message 1841570 - Posted: 12 Jan 2017, 4:30:06 UTC - in response to Message 1841559.  
Last modified: 12 Jan 2017, 4:32:19 UTC

Neuter Government, and capitalism's faults will disappear. Get the Government out of the economy, and we will ALL be better off.

Capitalism is the free, voluntary exchange of goods/services between individuals, each perceiving the transaction to be to their OWN benefit. Get Government power involved, and it is no longer free and voluntary, both essential parts of the system.

So said Ayn Rand.


This is my issue with Libertarianism- it neglects the fact that people are greedy, and assumes a truly fair and free system will exist within unregulated capitalism. That's just *not* how it works in the *real* world. Money is power, and power tends to corrupt, yada yada.
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Message 1841577 - Posted: 12 Jan 2017, 5:03:56 UTC - in response to Message 1841570.  
Last modified: 12 Jan 2017, 5:06:33 UTC

Neuter Government, and capitalism's faults will disappear. Get the Government out of the economy, and we will ALL be better off.

Capitalism is the free, voluntary exchange of goods/services between individuals, each perceiving the transaction to be to their OWN benefit. Get Government power involved, and it is no longer free and voluntary, both essential parts of the system.

So said Ayn Rand.


This is my issue with Libertarianism- it neglects the fact that people are greedy, and assumes a truly fair and free system will exist within unregulated capitalism. That's just *not* how it works in the *real* world. Money is power, and power tends to corrupt, yada yada.

Totally correct. People act for selfish reasons. HA HA I have all the coal, you will pay my price or freeze to death! Or I have all the drinking water ...
Some goods and services are essential to life. There can never be a free and voluntary market for such items.

It can only work where there is an orderly market with many sellers and buyers for each thing*. It fails without order. Unfortunately, without government control, an orderly market will not persist and may not even develop.

Ayn Rand might work in a classroom with play money, it doesn't work in real life. <ed> and I bet teacher , er government, has to keep it fair</ed>

*This implies the buyer and seller can transport the goods and payment between themselves, so free access roads have just hit and that generally means easements and taxes to build and upkeep. Unless you want the communist utopia where there is no private land ownership and I can drag the goods through that field of corn you were about to harvest.
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Message 1841586 - Posted: 12 Jan 2017, 6:08:57 UTC

In case Trump angering China over his disregard for the 'one China' policy long held by the US wasn't enough, now Tillerson is saying things that are sure to further tensions between our nations.

"U.S. President-elect Donald Trump's nominee for secretary of state set a course for a potentially serious confrontation with Beijing on Wednesday, saying China should be denied access to islands it has built in the contested South China Sea."


(Before any poster here (or a specific one) takes this statement out of context: I am NOT agreeing or disagreeing with Tillerson's statement, I am simply pointing out that his statement could lead to escalation)
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Message 1841613 - Posted: 12 Jan 2017, 10:30:41 UTC

I suppose the question now "Is buzzfeed a legitimate news source or a fake news source?"
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Message 1841630 - Posted: 12 Jan 2017, 14:26:40 UTC - in response to Message 1841613.  

I suppose the question now "Is buzzfeed a legitimate news source or a fake news source?"


I certainly don't ever reference news from them.
Indeed there are more reputable sources out there. That said, they may be irresponsible, but they also aren't what I would call 'fake news'
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Message 1841632 - Posted: 12 Jan 2017, 14:37:41 UTC

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Message 1841736 - Posted: 13 Jan 2017, 1:03:31 UTC - in response to Message 1841632.  

The Truth about "Post-truth"


That article is hilarious beyond belief.

That 'philosopher' interviewed condemns one group for ignoring objective fact and manipulating public opinion through emotional appeals and personal opinion... When the 'other' group has been doing the same thing without shame for... well... dang near forever.

Remember the Mel Brooks movie 'History of the World, Part 1'? When during the 'Roman' act, Mel Brooks' character 'Comicus', a 'stand up philosopher' was trying to get his 'unemployement' salt? B. Author's character in the Dole Office rightly termed him a 'bull sh** artist', then repeated the standard litany of questions... 'Did you bull-sh** this week?'... (No!)... 'Did you TRY to bull-sh** this week?'... (YES!).

Well, it is obvious that a great many around here have a similar opinion of Philosophers... Or, at least ones that disagree with their 'personal opinions'. Case in point... a certain philosopher that I from time to time refer to... almost everyone else, it seems, disagrees with her, and are quite vocal about it.

The point is that Philosophers are not objective sources of fact. You want that, you go to a retired scientist that is not chasing grants anymore.

It is to laugh. A bunch of leftists calling out a bunch of rightists on emotional manipulation, pretending personal opinion is objective fact, and pretending outright baldfaced lies to be the truth. The SAME thing the leftists (rightists too) have been doing dang near forever.

You might have had a philosopher or speechwriter invent some fancy new term for it "post-truth" and pretend it is new.

Me, I call it "politics as usual". Same Sh**... Different Day...
https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE

#Texit

Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016.

Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power.
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Message 1841737 - Posted: 13 Jan 2017, 1:09:44 UTC - in response to Message 1841736.  

Objective reality is, pardon the pun, is often trumped by emotions.
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Message 1841753 - Posted: 13 Jan 2017, 2:02:36 UTC - in response to Message 1841743.  

Objective reality is, pardon the pun, is often trumped by emotions.

Yes... By all sides.

MK... Is correct. The Left is attacking those, who are now doing what The Left has been doing for decades.

That's not a left right thing, it is a stupidity thing.
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Message 1841754 - Posted: 13 Jan 2017, 2:03:27 UTC - in response to Message 1841632.  

The Truth about "Post-truth"

"The whole post-truth phenomenon is about, 'My opinion is worth more than the facts.' It's about how I feel about things.

When the news media was sold onto wall street, the fiduciary duty replaced the duty the founders envisioned for the press, a duty to the public to shine the spotlight on corruption. Now it is about who wore what dress to an idiots party.
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Message 1841801 - Posted: 13 Jan 2017, 5:11:13 UTC - in response to Message 1841736.  

...
Me, I call it "politics as usual". Same Sh**... Different Day...


But my friend, there is nothing 'usual' about politics right now. :-(
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Message 1841874 - Posted: 13 Jan 2017, 13:58:15 UTC - in response to Message 1841801.  

...
Me, I call it "politics as usual". Same Sh**... Different Day...


But my friend, there is nothing 'usual' about politics right now. :-(


That would depend on your definition of 'usual'. Things have been this way since at least 1987 (and likely much earlier, but 1987 is when it started being so obvious it slapped one upside the head).


Robert Bork wrote:
"The truth is that the judge who looks outside the Constitution always looks inside himself and nowhere else."


It was in the Bork confirmation hearings in 1987 that things became clear... The Left was out merely to trash everyone else, not to work for the good of the nation.
https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE

#Texit

Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016.

Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power.
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Message 1841882 - Posted: 13 Jan 2017, 14:22:14 UTC - in response to Message 1841875.  
Last modified: 13 Jan 2017, 14:25:30 UTC

Study: Economy Was Top Issue Among Millennial Voters -

In addition, the survey showed that the number of millennial voters who said they voted for Republican candidate Donald Trump nearly doubled postelection compared to those who said they were voting for him before the election.

Most millennials who gave their rationale for voting for Trump said he had the highest possibility of improving the economy since he was a businessman.

Many who did not choose between Trump or Hillary Clinton said it wouldn’t have made a difference due to the Electoral College and because “the lesser of two evils is still evil.”

http://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/study-economy-top-issue-among-millennials#sthash.RdITSplQ.dpuf

Apparently The Millennials, The Deplorable's and The Libertarian supporter's, have many things in common.

Yes... This is an 'unusual', and a necessary backlash against The Left. Thank God!

...


"Donald Trump's approval rating is the lowest of any president-elect in two decades"
"The controversial Republican lost the popular vote by 2.9m votes but managed to win certain key swing states in order to clinch the presidency."

(it's funny how differently people view reality)
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Message 1841889 - Posted: 13 Jan 2017, 14:38:14 UTC

Have there ever been any efforts to change the way the president is elected?
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Message 1841890 - Posted: 13 Jan 2017, 14:39:34 UTC - in response to Message 1841889.  

Have there ever been any efforts to change the way the president is elected?

Not since the electoral college thing started if I recall correctly.
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Message boards : Politics : US Elections 2016


 
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