US Elections 2016

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Profile Gordon Lowe
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Message 1839058 - Posted: 31 Dec 2016, 4:48:45 UTC - in response to Message 1839055.  

If there had been no political party associated with Trump or Clinton, who do you think would have won?

The very idea to vote persons instead of the political party values is to me totally disgusting.


Really? I assume you're being tongue in cheek. The political party system seems to cause a lot of strife and negativity. I think if Trump and Clinton expressed their ideas on their own without all of our preconceived notions about what right or left is or should be, we would have had a more representative election.
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Message 1839062 - Posted: 31 Dec 2016, 5:29:55 UTC - in response to Message 1839058.  

If there had been no political party associated with Trump or Clinton, who do you think would have won?

The very idea to vote persons instead of the political party values is to me totally disgusting.


Really? I assume you're being tongue in cheek. The political party system seems to cause a lot of strife and negativity. I think if Trump and Clinton expressed their ideas on their own without all of our preconceived notions about what right or left is or should be, we would have had a more representative election.


Political parties now are very close to being like football teams. No real reason to root for and cheer on any of them.
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Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
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Message 1839074 - Posted: 31 Dec 2016, 7:06:55 UTC - in response to Message 1839062.  

Political parties now are very close to being like football teams. No real reason to root for and cheer on any of them.

More apt than you might think considering how fat the football team owners get.
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Message 1839103 - Posted: 31 Dec 2016, 12:07:35 UTC - in response to Message 1839058.  

If there had been no political party associated with Trump or Clinton, who do you think would have won?

The very idea to vote persons instead of the political party values is to me totally disgusting.


Really? I assume you're being tongue in cheek. The political party system seems to cause a lot of strife and negativity. I think if Trump and Clinton expressed their ideas on their own without all of our preconceived notions about what right or left is or should be, we would have had a more representative election.

Yes a bit of tongue in cheek :)
But Trump...
Is he a Republican or a Democrat and following a political party system?
Well we will know who he is in a couple of months.
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Message 1839126 - Posted: 31 Dec 2016, 14:36:01 UTC - in response to Message 1839051.  

So many expressions(frustrations?) about politics over many years from many people refer in some way or another to Right/Left, Repub/Dem, we all just seem to go through the motions of defending "our" party and criticizing the other one(s). No matter what the argument, the party seems to come into play somehow, and that polarizes the discussion. My fantasy wish for the new year is that suddenly there are no political parties; just people with differing opinions.

If there had been no political party associated with Trump or Clinton, who do you think would have won?


Yes...

Here is what President George Washington had to say about political parties in his Farewell Address:


George Washington wrote:
I have already intimated to you the danger of parties in the State, with particular reference to the founding of them on geographical discriminations. Let me now take a more comprehensive view, and warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of party generally.

This spirit, unfortunately, is inseparable from our nature, having its root in the strongest passions of the human mind. It exists under different shapes in all governments, more or less stifled, controlled, or repressed; but, in those of the popular form, it is seen in its greatest rankness, and is truly their worst enemy.

The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of public liberty.

Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight), the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.

It serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which finds a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.

There is an opinion that parties in free countries are useful checks upon the administration of the government and serve to keep alive the spirit of liberty. This within certain limits is probably true; and in governments of a monarchical cast, patriotism may look with indulgence, if not with favor, upon the spirit of party. But in those of the popular character, in governments purely elective, it is a spirit not to be encouraged. From their natural tendency, it is certain there will always be enough of that spirit for every salutary purpose. And there being constant danger of excess, the effort ought to be by force of public opinion, to mitigate and assuage it. A fire not to be quenched, it demands a uniform vigilance to prevent its bursting into a flame, lest, instead of warming, it should consume.


https://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?doc=15&page=transcript
https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE

#Texit

Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016.

Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power.
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Message 1839176 - Posted: 31 Dec 2016, 17:23:14 UTC - in response to Message 1839102.  

You guys are trying to hide the fact that you either want more government or you want less government.

I want correct government. One that does not attempt to implement a theistic morality, so much less of that. I want one that does enforce traffic laws, so more of that.

I suspect you claim you want the opposite -- anti abortion but business can dump anything in the river upstream of the town water inlet.
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Message 1839232 - Posted: 31 Dec 2016, 21:54:36 UTC - in response to Message 1839114.  
Last modified: 31 Dec 2016, 22:05:21 UTC

You guys are trying to hide the fact that you either want more government or you want less government.

Worse.

They are trying to hide the fact they believe they are Superior to The People, The Deportables, the Masses, or The Peasants. Who they believe must be controlled.

They must call ALL who disagree with them Homophobic, Racist, Sexist, etc. Using name calling in an attempt to cover up their real beliefs, and stop any ethical, moral, and intelligent disagreement with their Beliefs.

As I posted elsewhere. They are just, knowingly or unknowingly, following the George Lakoff 'Rules of Discussion and Debate'.




No, I just call him a corruptible/corrupted authoritarian. A man who abused the power he briefly held, by altering approximately 2000 of his posts, well past the time we unclean masses would be allowed to do. He is hiding the fact that what he wants is big government that agrees with him, not less government. Virtually everything he says shows how he feels he is superior. He is tainted. He is not intellectually interesting, let alone intellectually honest. Couldn't even turn down modship the way I did.
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Message 1839240 - Posted: 31 Dec 2016, 22:24:12 UTC - in response to Message 1839232.  

You guys are trying to hide the fact that you either want more government or you want less government.

Worse.

They are trying to hide the fact they believe they are Superior to The People, The Deportables, the Masses, or The Peasants. Who they believe must be controlled.

They must call ALL who disagree with them Homophobic, Racist, Sexist, etc. Using name calling in an attempt to cover up their real beliefs, and stop any ethical, moral, and intelligent disagreement with their Beliefs.

As I posted elsewhere. They are just, knowingly or unknowingly, following the George Lakoff 'Rules of Discussion and Debate'.




No, I just call him a corruptible/corrupted authoritarian. A man who abused the power he briefly held, by altering approximately 2000 of his posts, well past the time we unclean masses would be allowed to do. He is hiding the fact that what he wants is big government that agrees with him, not less government. Virtually everything he says shows how he feels he is superior. He is tainted. He is not intellectually interesting, let alone intellectually honest. Couldn't even turn down modship the way I did.

Don't forget about hiding posts he didn't personally like because they went against his beliefs, thankfully the "powers to be" corrected a lot of them.

But he brought himself undone when he started deleting his own own posts didn't he?

Though he does reflect the corrupt political system you guys do have over there where the rich and greedy do actually run the country, only now 1 of them is going to be right out in front this time, no puppets this time.

Cheers.
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Message 1839262 - Posted: 31 Dec 2016, 23:18:13 UTC

I just abused the power vested in me like many of our elected officials. What's the big deal? EVERYBODY DOES IT!


No they do not. I know many who would be insulted by you crass statement.

It just says more about you than words ever can and is why I for one treat all your posts as

_ _
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Message 1839273 - Posted: 31 Dec 2016, 23:58:47 UTC - in response to Message 1839272.  

I just abused the power vested in me like many of our elected officials. What's the big deal? EVERYBODY DOES IT!


No they do not. I know many who would be insulted by you crass statement.

It just says more about you than words ever can and is why I for one treat all your posts as

_ _


Yes, I was insulted and offended every time I heard that crass statement from Bill Clinton supporters when he was in a position of power and abusing gullible young women.


But you decided to follow in his footsteps anyway.
Happy 2017
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Message 1839278 - Posted: 1 Jan 2017, 0:17:32 UTC - in response to Message 1839274.  

I just abused the power vested in me like many of our elected officials. What's the big deal? EVERYBODY DOES IT!


No they do not. I know many who would be insulted by you crass statement.

It just says more about you than words ever can and is why I for one treat all your posts as

_ _


Yes, I was insulted and offended every time I heard that crass statement from Bill Clinton supporters when he was in a position of power and abusing gullible young women.

Push... (With whom I have had many disagreements)

Many of your attackers believe in Situational Morality and Ethics.

IE: OK for those Politicians they support. Horrible for those Politicians they oppose.

Yes... Those that believe this, are despicable.

Actually Clyde, none of your politicians would survive over here because 99% of them would wind in jail, but you elect them over there.

You all over there really should take a look at how social democracies work.

Cheers.
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Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
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Message 1839279 - Posted: 1 Jan 2017, 0:17:56 UTC
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How Soon?

How soon they forget.
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Message 1839283 - Posted: 1 Jan 2017, 0:51:19 UTC - in response to Message 1839279.  

Gary, a lot of people just seem very blind to the writing on the walls.

I for one hope our system of checks and balances protects everyone. But I fear these guys are hard at work both a) making sure they do as much ugly stuff as they can while getting away with it, and b) paving the way to make it easier for others to do the same uglies in the future without answering for it.
#resist
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Message 1839304 - Posted: 1 Jan 2017, 2:31:19 UTC

Bernie, isn't there a rule about double-posts? Some of those "--"'s are in the same thread!

Wiggo, care to PM some of those hidden then un-hidden posts?
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Message 1839305 - Posted: 1 Jan 2017, 2:32:58 UTC
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Message boards : Politics : US Elections 2016


 
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