Immigrant Migrant Refugee SUPREMACY-Is RACIST DEPLORABLE & TREASONOUS KKKOMMIE KKKryBABY KKKLOWNS with Their Continuing TREASONOUS Behaviours, will LOSE All Elections if They Keep Spouting TREASONOUS Free Speech

Message boards : Politics : Immigrant Migrant Refugee SUPREMACY-Is RACIST DEPLORABLE & TREASONOUS KKKOMMIE KKKryBABY KKKLOWNS with Their Continuing TREASONOUS Behaviours, will LOSE All Elections if They Keep Spouting TREASONOUS Free Speech
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Message 1834991 - Posted: 9 Dec 2016, 16:59:37 UTC

Just a quick note.
I am not taking a position on the second amendment, and I do have guns.
When 911 happened, some 3000 people were killed.
We went to war, and killed over 100,000, many were collateral damage.
Due to the high gun availability in this country, 33,000 are killed every year.
It does seem to me that 33,000 gun deaths a year is a very heavy price to pay for having guns,
especially after we freaked out when in 1 year 3000 were killed by terrorists.

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Message 1834992 - Posted: 9 Dec 2016, 17:03:08 UTC - in response to Message 1834991.  
Last modified: 9 Dec 2016, 17:04:43 UTC

Maybe it is a high price to pay, Steve.
But how would you feel if the 2nd amendment were repealed, and you were forced to give up your guns and with them the right to defend yourself?

Always remember this truism.....
'When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.'
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 1834996 - Posted: 9 Dec 2016, 17:28:28 UTC - in response to Message 1834991.  
Last modified: 9 Dec 2016, 17:33:25 UTC

Just a quick note.
I am not taking a position on the second amendment, and I do have guns.
When 911 happened, some 3000 people were killed.
We went to war, and killed over 100,000, many were collateral damage.
Due to the high gun availability in this country, 33,000 are killed every year.
It does seem to me that 33,000 gun deaths a year is a very heavy price to pay for having guns,
especially after we freaked out when in 1 year 3000 were killed by terrorists.

Steve

I saw a British documentary from 2014 the other day.
Children and weapons are for most two things that do not belong together, but according to some families in the United States is not only a fact but also a right for children to have weapons.
Over 3000 children and young people dies every year as a result of shooting accidents.
Meanwhile, US companies markets and sells specially designed weapons for children, blue for boys and pink for girls.
But what does it really mean to put a firearm in the hands of a four year old?

The program shows how a 4 year old little girl get a fully functioning rifle as a gift.
When she did not immediately wanted to shoot, the family was called in to help the parents to get the little girl to shoot the first shot.
In another family had a 9-year-old boy a private hunting rifle and went out one morning to shoot rabbits.
He was later found dead with a bullet hole in the forehead.
The accident happened to the 9-year-old when he would jump over a stream, limped and the piston bumped on the ground and the shot went off in the middle of the forehead.
The family did not think they had any guilt in the child's death.

Bad luck! Clearly that small children should have their own guns.
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Message 1835004 - Posted: 9 Dec 2016, 17:45:32 UTC

you claim to be an American
Why are you constantly passive/aggressive in almost every post? I stated that was a question, are you personally disavowing the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America?

As to the 'organized militia' we get into the meaning of 'is' again. 5 people who meet regularly to train in firearm safety and use for defense could be defined an 'organized militia'. And yes that is on my regular schedule monthly. as they are perishable skills. But to make the term moot, SCOTUS I believe has ruled that as irrelevant to the 2nd's right to keep and bear arms by an individual. Additionally, as a draft can be invoked by the Congress it can be argued that every American resident is a member of the militia.

@ Steve, I'm sure you are aware of the composition of that figure on 'gun deaths' closer examination will reveal the majority of aggressive gun violence is with illegally owned and possessed weapons. Also a major component of that number are suicides, which is a seprate tragic issue in America.
Bad luck! Clearly that small children should have their own guns.
I know you're being sarcastic there Jann, but it touches a sensitive nerve in mature legal gun owners. Responsible Americans store their weapons in Safes or Vaults along with the ammunition. To do otherwise in most States is a Felony offense if it results in a death. Child's toy guns have been in society worldwide for many centuries.

I believe it is far more damaging to allow children to consume a steady diet of gun violence in Movies, Television programs, Graphic(comic) books, Video Games and Music than to play 'cowboy' or 'soldier'. Repeated exposure to simulated violent death desensitizes the mind to it's reality.

I'm climbing down from the soapbox now...................

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Message 1835022 - Posted: 9 Dec 2016, 18:29:17 UTC - in response to Message 1835004.  

are you personally disavowing the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America?

Jaundice, no I'm not but I strongly object to the loosey goosey way it is currently implemented. Steve pointed out what is wrong and you have theories about why. All the victims get is thoughts and prayers, not viable solutions. Clyde takes the viewpoint the the specie is too stupid to learn from the past, I don't.
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Message 1835029 - Posted: 9 Dec 2016, 19:15:08 UTC - in response to Message 1834461.  
Last modified: 9 Dec 2016, 19:15:44 UTC

Why do teachers choose to work in cities where they cannot afford accommodation, why not go somewhere else?
If they did maybe someone would do something about it.


Of course, one with work can always find other work.
And it's always easy to then move to the place where the other work exists. I mean, moving is free and we use molecular transportation to do it, right?

RIP John Glenn, who explored from the coast of the entire Earth and then, when serving, did not serve for the party of ancient grandness.
Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.
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Message 1835033 - Posted: 9 Dec 2016, 19:21:03 UTC

The viable solution is to enforce the laws now on the books of every State in the Union including Federal law. As I've said before, 'Stop and Frisk' would (and has) rid the city streets of unlawfully owned and possessed weapons.

There are very few legally licensed carriers who would object to this 'violation' of their privacy as they understand that illegal weapons and their owners are the problem not the law abiding citizens who follow the procedures to obtain a license. The 'loosey goosey' aspect of 2nd Amendment application is due to the failure to enforce current laws. Outlawing ownership would only affect those legal owners, it would make no difference to those who already choose to break the law.

If a gun is used in a crime there should be no 'early release' as the DOJ currently advocates.
Do the Crime, Do the Time!

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Message 1835034 - Posted: 9 Dec 2016, 19:30:46 UTC - in response to Message 1834685.  

Mark Twain. Where are you?.


Woodlawn Cemetery.
Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.
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Message 1835049 - Posted: 9 Dec 2016, 21:09:34 UTC - in response to Message 1835004.  
Last modified: 9 Dec 2016, 21:11:40 UTC

As to the 'organized militia' we get into the meaning of 'is' again. 5 people who meet regularly to train in firearm safety and use for defense could be defined an 'organized militia'. And yes that is on my regular schedule monthly. as they are perishable skills. But to make the term moot, SCOTUS I believe has ruled that as irrelevant to the 2nd's right to keep and bear arms by an individual. Additionally, as a draft can be invoked by the Congress it can be argued that every American resident is a member of the militia.


JaundicedEye,

Let us examine Federal Law.



10 U.S.C.
United States Code, 2011 Edition
Title 10 - ARMED FORCES
Subtitle A - General Military Law
PART I - ORGANIZATION AND GENERAL MILITARY POWERS
CHAPTER 13 - THE MILITIA
Sec. 311 - Militia: composition and classes


§311. Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title10/html/USCODE-2011-title10-subtitleA-partI-chap13-sec311.htm


32 U.S.C.
United States Code, 2009 Edition
Title 32 - NATIONAL GUARD
CHAPTER 3 - PERSONNEL
Sec. 313 - Appointments and enlistments: age limitations

§313. Appointments and enlistments: age limitations

(a) To be eligible for original enlistment in the National Guard, a person must be at least 17 years of age and under 45, or under 64 years of age and a former member of the Regular Army, Regular Navy, Regular Air Force, or Regular Marine Corps. To be eligible for reenlistment, a person must be under 64 years of age.

(b) To be eligible for appointment as an officer of the National Guard, a person must—

(1) be a citizen of the United States; and

(2) be at least 18 years of age and under 64.

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2009-title32/html/USCODE-2009-title32-chap3-sec313.htm

From this examination of the Law, we can see that while the members of the Militia do not include *everyone*, it does include a much greater number of people than most people seem to be aware of.

Population of US 18 to 44... 112,806,642.
96.7 males per 100 females.
Gives (roughly) 55.5 million men in this age group... roughly... It would be interesting to see the actual data.
https://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-03.pdf

Found it... almost. Not including the 17 year olds, or the women... 56.7 million men, 18 to 44.

Source: http://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?pid=DEC_10_SF1_QTP1&prodType=table

Your 'Group of 5', assuming they meet the requirements, would be part of the 'unorganized militia' (unless they are already in the 'organized militia' thru membership in the National Guard, etc.).

As to your argument about 'everyone'...

In the interests of eliminating sex discrimination, a strong case can be made to eliminate the distinction between males and females in USC title 10 section 311.

In the interests of reducing/eliminating age discrimination, a case can be made to extend, possibly eliminate the upper age limit.

But, while a case can be made re: 'all US Residents' for the reason you gave of 'the Draft', that one would be on a bit more unstable of a footing, in my opinion.
https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE

#Texit

Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016.

Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power.
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Message 1835067 - Posted: 9 Dec 2016, 22:40:54 UTC

I guess my point was that after 911, the Patriot act came, and then homeland security.
We lost a lot of privacy, and ended up killing thousands to protect us from terrorists.
What did we do to protect us from ourselves, who every year kill many more than the terrorists ever did?

As I said, I am not taking a stance, but the irony of losing freedom, and killing thousands to fight terrorists over 3000 deaths, while we live with 33,000 gun deaths a year seems a bit odd.
My guns are secure, and can't be used as defense in case of a home invasion.

I do have other means that can be quite effective.

Steve
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Message 1835072 - Posted: 9 Dec 2016, 23:21:06 UTC

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/27/health/u-s-most-mass-shootings/index.html
Just for information.

Steve
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Message 1835076 - Posted: 9 Dec 2016, 23:46:47 UTC

Neither side will convince the other of it's position on guns, so I'm done discussing it.

Everyone is welcome to believe what they will, and I sincerely hope that I and everyone else will never have to discharge a firearm in self defense or for any other reason other than sport or hunting. But if the defensive need arises, I will not hesitate.

Accept it or set your hair on fire, it makes no difference to me........

By the way Steve, news story today says that death from Heroin overdoses have now exceeded firearms homicides in the US.
Just for information.

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Message 1835077 - Posted: 9 Dec 2016, 23:54:29 UTC

No problem from me.
That is exactly what I expected.

Steve
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Message 1835091 - Posted: 10 Dec 2016, 1:07:42 UTC - in response to Message 1834828.  
Last modified: 10 Dec 2016, 1:19:13 UTC

@WK,

Ok, one last attempt at explaining this and then I'll just admit to myself I'm crap at explaining things to others and give up.

Here's another piece that says your claim of earning figures are questionable and that you need to consider age ranges when talking about income.

We are caught in some sort of parallel argument. I'm trying to explain WHY we are talking about 2 different things but I'm not getting through.

Original Argument:
Bobby posted a link that had the unemployment percentage @4.6%. I posted what I thought was the median remuneration of the 95.4% that ARE employed. Any attempt to exclude a subgroup - as you are - will automatically alter the 95.4% number. IOW you are moving the goalposts.

By including all age ranges in your estimate...


It doesn't matter what I think I should include or what you think you should include. We are searching for the median of those 95.4%. Whatever people that number includes WE both HAVE to include in our calculation.

Now I'm going to pretend you actually understood me this time just so I can finally point out 2 things:
1) If you think the median remuneration of the 95.4% is a crap stat then you must also consider the 4.6% stat to be lacking for all the same reasons.
The two numbers are inexorably linked.
2) I already posted a graph that helps a bit to explain why teachers in San Fran can't afford to live in San Fran (didn't care much for your kneejerk answer to that one though). @Bobby the sudden divergence of the GDP to personal income helps explain the disparity between "the economy is looking fine" and "life in the real-world sucks". But what I haven't posted yet - because we can't agree on a simple median - is why the 4.6% unemployment number might be "gamed". Here's a chart from one of WK's links:



I'd say there's something rotten in Denmark.

Then there's the argument WK wants to have
Which is full employment numbers....

I get why that's useful and you like it so much. But in today's world that 40k number is useless without a minimum of two more charts:
- percentage of said full-time employment over time
- median remuneration over time

However there are also plenty of (completely) different charts like the one you posted on upward mobility that all paint the same picture.
And no, I don't have a link ;)
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Message 1835097 - Posted: 10 Dec 2016, 1:30:35 UTC - in response to Message 1834763.  

Gary's flippin' out about a tax-stamp

Never said anything about a tax-stamp.


No, but you sure were triggered by the mention of one!

IOW I'm implying you were in a bit of an ad-hominem-attack/post-truth-witch-hunt mode.
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Message 1835100 - Posted: 10 Dec 2016, 1:35:47 UTC - in response to Message 1835091.  

By using total numbers of earners for your median figures, and your reference to unemployed.

What category do young people in full time education go into?
They don't go in the unemployed section, if they chose not to take a part time job.

Should young people still in training, where one would expect them to be paid at a lower rate be included in your figure for median wage. I would argue it distorts the real figure for fully trained employed people.

Those are some of the reasons why I think restricting the figures to full time employees in the 25 to 65 bracket is the only real way to get a meaningful benchmark figure.

Similar reasons will apply for not including those over 65, even though some of us still pay obscene amounts of tax.
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Message 1835104 - Posted: 10 Dec 2016, 1:49:46 UTC - in response to Message 1835100.  

I give up :)
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Message 1835110 - Posted: 10 Dec 2016, 2:26:22 UTC - in response to Message 1835097.  

Gary's flippin' out about a tax-stamp

Never said anything about a tax-stamp.


No, but you sure were triggered by the mention of one!

I was triggered because of Guy's implication the restriction was from the interstate commerce clause, when it originates from the power to lay duties on foreign goods.
I believe Guy thinks the commerce clause is superfluous verbiage.
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Message boards : Politics : Immigrant Migrant Refugee SUPREMACY-Is RACIST DEPLORABLE & TREASONOUS KKKOMMIE KKKryBABY KKKLOWNS with Their Continuing TREASONOUS Behaviours, will LOSE All Elections if They Keep Spouting TREASONOUS Free Speech


 
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