Immigrant Migrant Refugee SUPREMACY-Is RACIST DEPLORABLE & TREASONOUS KKKOMMIE KKKryBABY KKKLOWNS with Their Continuing TREASONOUS Behaviours, will LOSE All Elections if They Keep Spouting TREASONOUS Free Speech

Message boards : Politics : Immigrant Migrant Refugee SUPREMACY-Is RACIST DEPLORABLE & TREASONOUS KKKOMMIE KKKryBABY KKKLOWNS with Their Continuing TREASONOUS Behaviours, will LOSE All Elections if They Keep Spouting TREASONOUS Free Speech
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Message 1834139 - Posted: 4 Dec 2016, 21:54:39 UTC

You can't check the facts until you know precisely what fact it is that is being waved out there, hence grammar is important.

Yup, that's the same argument Bubba tried to make with his famous "it depends on what the meaning of 'is' is........."

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Message 1834150 - Posted: 4 Dec 2016, 22:56:34 UTC - in response to Message 1834104.  

Maybe not definite but close enough to Alex' statement is it not?

The problem on these boards as that too many want to argue over specifics when facts are mentioned. That's okay in a classroom or courtroom but this is real life where spending too much time arguing over those specifics ends up defeating the conversation.

Alex was in the ballpark end of story, why can't you admit that?
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Message 1834159 - Posted: 4 Dec 2016, 23:44:36 UTC

Do these numbers, when applied across the whole country, actually mean anything.
Surely the US median income, in one place means you have a comfortable life, and in another means you cannot afford a roof over your head. Even in the same place, the same income for households of the same size, will be viewed differently if one of the households owns their own house outright and the other has to pay a mortgage or rent.

But that eventually leads to another conundrum, should Federal employees or people working for statewide companies, with the same qualifications and experience, be paid the same rate no matter where they live and work?
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Message 1834160 - Posted: 4 Dec 2016, 23:46:06 UTC - in response to Message 1834150.  

Maybe not definite but close enough to Alex' statement is it not?

The problem on these boards as that too many want to argue over specifics when facts are mentioned. That's okay in a classroom or courtroom but this is real life where spending too much time arguing over those specifics ends up defeating the conversation.

Alex was in the ballpark end of story, why can't you admit that?

WK's number was over 30% greater than Alex's, and that was for full-time work for those 25-64. What's wrong with using that number? Why should students working part-time be included in the half of americans at below median income, when they've chosen to study when they could be in full time employment?
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1834165 - Posted: 5 Dec 2016, 0:00:56 UTC - in response to Message 1834160.  

WK's number was over 30% greater than Alex's, and that was for full-time work for those 25-64. What's wrong with using that number? Why should students working part-time be included in the half of americans at below median income, when they've chosen to study when they could be in full time employment?


Looking at the original source for Social Security (https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html) and you'll find their number for "Median net compensation a" is $29,930.13, but what's that a there for, oh "a Median net compensation is estimated" :), so even though it's pretty much right on Alex's number, it's not definitive.


So because something is not definitive for you, you decide to knock the other person down?

So you still fail to admit Alex was in the right ballpark then?

You asked for data sources, some were provided yet you say...

the source for the IRS value is given as "Tax Foundation, IRS 2011 data", which is the most recent year for which the IRS has anything other than "preliminary data"
is that the fault of Alex or myself?

Or isn't that definitive enough for you?
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Message 1834175 - Posted: 5 Dec 2016, 0:51:58 UTC - in response to Message 1834139.  

You can't check the facts until you know precisely what fact it is that is being waved out there, hence grammar is important.

Yup, that's the same argument Bubba tried to make with his famous "it depends on what the meaning of 'is' is........."

And Bubba is legally correct. (Bubba was no idiot, he made them list the acts and they missed one and he got lucky)
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Message 1834275 - Posted: 5 Dec 2016, 12:49:27 UTC - in response to Message 1834165.  

WK's number was over 30% greater than Alex's, and that was for full-time work for those 25-64. What's wrong with using that number? Why should students working part-time be included in the half of americans at below median income, when they've chosen to study when they could be in full time employment?


Looking at the original source for Social Security (https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html) and you'll find their number for "Median net compensation a" is $29,930.13, but what's that a there for, oh "a Median net compensation is estimated" :), so even though it's pretty much right on Alex's number, it's not definitive.


So because something is not definitive for you, you decide to knock the other person down?

So you still fail to admit Alex was in the right ballpark then?

You asked for data sources, some were provided yet you say...

the source for the IRS value is given as "Tax Foundation, IRS 2011 data", which is the most recent year for which the IRS has anything other than "preliminary data"
is that the fault of Alex or myself?

Or isn't that definitive enough for you?

Define the ballpark and we might be able to agree on a number that's in it. I don't see what's wrong with the one suggested by WK (full time aged 25 to 64). Alex disagrees, though it's unclear why. Once we know which ballpark we're in, only then does it make sense to talk about which numbers are in it. It's not about knocking anybody down. Picking a number, finding data that appears to support it, then defining the ballpark based on that, is not to my mind, the right sequence of events. If you can answer the question on inclusion of students, you'll understand the relevance of the Social Security data.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1834284 - Posted: 5 Dec 2016, 13:50:57 UTC - in response to Message 1834275.  

Define the ballpark?

That's easy...

... Trump won

So why all the crying?
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Message 1834380 - Posted: 5 Dec 2016, 22:31:29 UTC - in response to Message 1834284.  

So why all the crying?

Don't know why you are crying, but the trumpettes are balling because he is filling the swamp and adding fertilizer so it grows and grows. They were hoping for change.
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Message 1834423 - Posted: 6 Dec 2016, 3:41:51 UTC - in response to Message 1834159.  

Do these numbers, when applied across the whole country, actually mean anything.
Surely the US median income, in one place means you have a comfortable life, and in another means you cannot afford a roof over your head. Even in the same place, the same income for households of the same size, will be viewed differently if one of the households owns their own house outright and the other has to pay a mortgage or rent.

But that eventually leads to another conundrum, should Federal employees or people working for statewide companies, with the same qualifications and experience, be paid the same rate no matter where they live and work?


As I have posted before ...:

If you're carrying other debts and move because of finding a new job after a recession, it matters little if the new place has a lower cost of living,.
Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.
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Message 1834429 - Posted: 6 Dec 2016, 6:02:38 UTC - in response to Message 1834159.  

But that eventually leads to another conundrum, should Federal employees or people working for statewide companies, with the same qualifications and experience, be paid the same rate no matter where they live and work?

http://www.gsa.gov/portal/content/104877
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Message 1834430 - Posted: 6 Dec 2016, 6:05:53 UTC - in response to Message 1834423.  

If you're carrying other debts and move because of finding a new job after a recession, it matters little if the new place has a lower cost of living,.

Amazingly, you would think bankruptcy is the same in every state, because it is Federal, but no, some states allow you to hang on to more things.
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Message 1834443 - Posted: 6 Dec 2016, 10:47:38 UTC - in response to Message 1834275.  

I don't see what's wrong with the one suggested by WK (full time aged 25 to 64). Alex disagrees, though it's unclear why.


No wonder we have a failure to communicate.

Bobby, no offense, but you are misusing and misunderstanding your stats. Let's start over:

You said
What counts as a failing economy in a post-truth society:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2016/12/02/employment-situation-november

I said
And in their (the politicians of both parties) obsession to game that number half of America ended making less than 30k a year.
It doesn't matter if there's ZERO unemployment.*
What matters is a teacher in San Fran can't afford to live in San Fran.
*It used to. Not anymore


After that you made 3 mistakes in a row:
1st you assumed I chose the wrong stat.
Then you thought you found the right stat.
Then you thought WK found the right Stat.

I'll ignore (for now) the fact that you completely glossed over all the important bits of my very short reply which were (in order of appearance)
-gaming employment numbers
-employment numbers are becoming irrelevant
-a teacher can't afford to live in San Francisco

Anyway, 3 people provided stats. The only one that is relevant and directly related to the unemployment numbers you referenced is the 30k I pulled out of my *ahem*... memory.
If 4.6 percent are unemployed then the median income of the remaining 95.4 is 30k (IIRC that is)

or this may be easier to understand

Q: When referring to employment/unemployment, which median can be used?

a) All employed, median
b) All full-time employed, median
c) All employed, household, median
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Message 1834461 - Posted: 6 Dec 2016, 12:23:51 UTC - in response to Message 1834443.  

I still think your stat is the wrong one. And you haven't justified it yet as to why it is the correct one.

FACT: Full employment can never be reached. Under 4% is almost never heard of. So 4.6% is actually pretty low, for those unemployed and looking for work.

I don't think that those who choose to work part time only should be used in calculating personal income averages or medians. In my book you are mixing up the apples and oranges and trying to work out an impossible sum.

Why do teachers choose to work in cities where they cannot afford accommodation, why not go somewhere else?
If they did maybe someone would do something about it.
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Message 1834483 - Posted: 6 Dec 2016, 23:17:45 UTC

He ‘lied his a– off': Carrier union leader on Trump’s big deal

So it's only going to get worse. About 750 jobs are still going south of the border and Trump has negotiated that Indiana subsidise Carrier $700,000 in tax benefits for ten years.

So any company can now blackmail the state they are now in for tax relief just by threatening to move, or look round and find out which state is willing to give them the best deal.

Great businessman, NOT.
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Message 1834491 - Posted: 6 Dec 2016, 23:45:23 UTC - in response to Message 1834461.  

I still think your stat is the wrong one. And you haven't justified it yet as to why it is the correct one.


OMG, I thought you understood this but you were just saying "yeah but full-time numbers paint a slightly better picture overall".

WK, I'm sorry but this is math... it's not up for debate. I know you're good at math and I know I've justified, not once but... in two different ways why it is the correct one. So either take a closer look at the post you replied to or ask me to explain it a third time and I will :)
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Message 1834503 - Posted: 7 Dec 2016, 0:29:31 UTC

... find out which state is willing to give them the best deal.


Excellent idea! (As the founders of this nation intended.)
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Message 1834504 - Posted: 7 Dec 2016, 0:32:09 UTC - in response to Message 1834443.  

I don't see what's wrong with the one suggested by WK (full time aged 25 to 64). Alex disagrees, though it's unclear why.


No wonder we have a failure to communicate.

Bobby, no offense, but you are misusing and misunderstanding your stats. Let's start over:

You said
What counts as a failing economy in a post-truth society:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2016/12/02/employment-situation-november

I said
And in their (the politicians of both parties) obsession to game that number half of America ended making less than 30k a year.
It doesn't matter if there's ZERO unemployment.*
What matters is a teacher in San Fran can't afford to live in San Fran.
*It used to. Not anymore


After that you made 3 mistakes in a row:
1st you assumed I chose the wrong stat.

Did not make this assumption - I had no idea what stat you picked, The only assumption I made was that you had a solid foundation for your statement, thus far it seems I was in error. I gave a link to a stateand asked whether you had better data or a different definition of median (you are using a different measure and perhaps I should have used the term "measure" instead of "definition" in my first reply, apologies). You later provided a bunch of wiki links and later still said one state was more relevant than others.

Then you thought you found the right stat.

I made no claim to finding the right stat.

Then you thought WK found the right Stat.

I still think the one WK found is the most relevant to the discussion. I'm still unsure why you don't.

I'll ignore (for now) the fact that you completely glossed over all the important bits of my very short reply which were (in order of appearance)
-gaming employment numbers

Your 30K statement appeared to suggest that the number was the result of the gaming. If the number were 200K would you care that gaming took place? If not, then isn't the issue with the result of the gaming, and thus it matters whether 30K has some substance? Why do you believe addressing the outcome is glossing over the alleged precursor?

-employment numbers are becoming irrelevant

I asked you for more information on why you thought this to be true ("Why do you believe it no longer matters if there is zero unemployment?" was included along with a number of other questions in this post), until you do so, I won't say anything more on this. So I'll ignore for now your mis-characterization of my response to your statement.

-a teacher can't afford to live in San Francisco

What kind of comment do you want? That I find it unacceptable that some cities are now too expensive for low incomes families to live in? Before passing this kind of judgment shouldn't I first know whether it's true? Whether it's a new phenomena? Whether San Francisco requires housing be made specifically for low income families like, for instance, NYC? Is this a comment about the income of teachers, and how they are not valued sufficiently in the US (and perhaps other nations). These and other questions entered my head before I "glossed over" your comment.

Anyway, 3 people provided stats. The only one that is relevant and directly related to the unemployment numbers you referenced is the 30k I pulled out of my *ahem*... memory.
If 4.6 percent are unemployed then the median income of the remaining 95.4 is 30k (IIRC that is)

Why rely on your memory, there are a good deal of different values that have been posted. Is there any published number for the median income of the working population? Is this something I must go on a potentially endless search for because you say the data is out there somewhere?

or this may be easier to understand

Q: When referring to employment/unemployment, which median can be used?

a) All employed, median
b) All full-time employed, median
c) All employed, household, median


What of dual income households where one party earns 30K or less and the other significantly more (there are some, e.g. stay at home parents with a part time job), is the party earning less than 30K to be included in your half of all american making less than 30K per year, does it make sense to think of such couples as being half in your group and half in the upper middle class?
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1834505 - Posted: 7 Dec 2016, 0:42:12 UTC - in response to Message 1834498.  

He ‘lied his a– off': Carrier union leader on Trump’s big deal

So it's only going to get worse. About 750 jobs are still going south of the border and Trump has negotiated that Indiana subsidise Carrier $700,000 in tax benefits for ten years.

So any company can now blackmail the state they are now in for tax relief just by threatening to move, or look round and find out which state is willing to give them the best deal.

Great businessman, NOT.

Are you referencing Louisiana?

Tax Breaks + Infrastructure Improvement = More Jobs and More Taxes to the State.

Economics 101.

Did I say a state in the USA?
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Message boards : Politics : Immigrant Migrant Refugee SUPREMACY-Is RACIST DEPLORABLE & TREASONOUS KKKOMMIE KKKryBABY KKKLOWNS with Their Continuing TREASONOUS Behaviours, will LOSE All Elections if They Keep Spouting TREASONOUS Free Speech


 
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