Did you know that drinking a large gin & tonic every day wards off vampires?

Well, how many vampires have you have you seen around your way lately??

Change the gender and the work schedule, and I am a vampire.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Excuse me my young sir, I beg your pardon???

Well Chris you did post this didn't you ;-)

I wrote specs for a living for 5 years

And i'm fairly sure you did say you " helped " with the rules that " goven " ladders or something like that ;-)

During the 1800's and 1900's Employers were totally ruthless, and were quite happy to run factories and Mills with blatantly unsafe working practices. Workers were considered two a penny and not worth worrying about. Then Asbestosis and Pneumoconiosis hit the headlines and the Unions started getting active. The HSE was formed in 1975. That was fine, it stopped the worst abuses of workplace safety, but they got into their stride and it almost prohibited any manufacrure at all. But then of course the continentals had to muscle in and the ISO lot came into force.

Yep no aruguments from me about that , whatever happend to " Common f -ing sence "

The biggest load of rubbish were and are the COSHH regulations. Unfortunately I was lumbered with being the THQ divisional liaison officer for that. There was I a professional qualified engineer, writing instructions to fully grown adults, that they had to keep snopake thinners in secure cupboards in case people were tempted to sniff them!!

That's practicaly the same as having " this product may contain nuts" on a bag of peanuts , did get told that once in a shop by the assistant , looked at him and said " I'm buying peanuts , there BETTER be some inside the bag matey or i'm going to be very upset " .
It's like the " powers that be" now think everone's incapable of thinkin for themselfs .
H&S was " invented " to make a 10 minute job last a whole morning and you ain't guna tell me any different there :-)



[/quote]

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Life is what you make of it :-)

When i'm good i'm very good , but when i'm bad i'm shi#eloads better ;-) In't I " buttercups " p.m.s.l at authoritie !!;-)

H&S was " invented " to make a 10 minute job last a whole morning and you ain't guna tell me any different there :-)

Ain't that the truth!

The days I've had wasted spending with H&S on manual handling & loading. Got fed up with it a few times but the best was some dopey a..w..e droning on & on, so during tea break asked him if he has a FLT certificate or a HGV license. The answer to both was no. 2nd question was "How long you been in your job?" Answer: 7 weeks. 4 of us out of 22 in the class went to the transport manager, letting him know we were not new employees just transfers from Warehousing to Transport.

We didn't go back after tea :-)

The thing is, we told that DH at the start & got nothing but B/S in return.

Sounds like a great match.

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Also the same as a safety label on an electric kettle saying "product get's hot in use". It's got nothing to do with common sense, What it has to do with is unscrupulous lawyers, dopey judges, and money grabbing customers all out for a quick buck.

Somehow you missed the jury in that pile of deserved contempt.

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If I had been your Manager I would have sacked you. And I doubt your Union would had to much to say about it either.

I've never been a member of a union , Maggie " killed" their power back in the 80's with the miners strike and " shredded wheet head Sargill " didn't she ( but she still " stole my milkbottle " ;-( )

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Life is what you make of it :-)

When i'm good i'm very good , but when i'm bad i'm shi#eloads better ;-) In't I " buttercups " p.m.s.l at authoritie !!;-)

The days I've had wasted spending with H&S on manual handling & loading

That is a very silly and blinkered attitude.

Firstly, all employers have a duty of care under the Health & Safety at Work Act 1974 "to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, the health, safety and welfare at work" of all their employees.

Secondly, to fulfil that requirement, they necessarily provide employees with safety courses which are usually mandatory to attend as a condition of employment.

Thirdly, they are covering themselves in case an employee has an accident due their own negligence.

We didn't go back after tea :-)

If I had been your Manager I would have sacked you. And I doubt your Union would had to much to say about it either. From my own experience in negotiating with the Unions they are red hot on safety training and procedures, and it is usually down to them more than management, insisting that safety training be provided for their members.

You're despicable & your failure to comprehend the written word is abysmal.

Go back & read my post again. There's a MASSIVE clue there for you as to why it was a waste of time for the 4 of us.

Been a fully paid up Union Member since 1975,

I would of turned 2 in December that year is a while ago now Chris ( ain't saying you're old or anthing ;-) sorry couln't resist there and you DID "open the door" for that mate ;-) )

Unions are necessary to keep management on their toes but they shouldn't be allowed to blackmail the country. The next battle will be the rail unions.

Seams to me " it's the other way round " now Unions holding the country to ransom , ( and throwing a toddler's tantrum when they don't get their own way ( could say the same for some posters but won't go there today ;-) )) ( probably NOT who you're thinking it is b4 you even start anyone , i know who i'm meaning and like it like that so guess away )

Mum just looked online for train tickets to go from home to Ipswich / Liverpool St , Waterloo to Portsmouth hbr station £28 1st class E/W or £ 20 " cattle class " told her she diserves to go 1st , she's 70 and why the fu#k not , travel " in style" .( we both 4t it would be a LOT more ,very plesantly surprised looking online )
The Unions have got a point when it comes to " safety" but they do " live in the 70's" , things change / tech improves etc and everyone has to ADAPT to the changes ,
Ain't rocket science or Nuclear physics is it , i calls it " common sence " and that's fast dissapearin from this country :-(

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Life is what you make of it :-)

When i'm good i'm very good , but when i'm bad i'm shi#eloads better ;-) In't I " buttercups " p.m.s.l at authoritie !!;-)

The intention of H&S "rules" is to reduce risk to an acceptable level. Sadly far too many organisations attempt to remove all risk from everything, even when the risk is infinitesimally small. I recall with some amusement a meeting discussing H&S in an office with our client and a two third parties. The chairman was a "wise old man", one the the third parties was represented by a "fresh faced youth of the female persuasion". We were approaching lunch, and everyone was getting bored of this particular person saying "We must remove all risk from this office", I was sat quietly scribbling on my note pad, the chairman was intrigued about what I was doing. This was my opening "You do realise there is a risk we haven;t considered yet", the Chairman looked rather quizzical, I continued, "There is a finite risk that this meeting will be terminated by a London Bus driving through the middle of it". Everyone was all ears now, and Miss Third Party chimed in "Well, how are we going to stop the London bus driving through this room? and how many would it kill?" (She ignored the obvious fact that we were three floors up in a building in Preston) Mr.Chairman said "It wouldn't be very good for any of us here, or the passengers on the bus, I'm sure Mr.Smith can tell you the probability of this sad event" I read off the last line on my bit of paper, zero point <lots and lots of zeros>35678 that this will happen in the next 1000 years". All but one person in the room was in hysterical laughter. Mr.Chairman called the lunch break. During lunch he approached me "Its about time that someone brought her of her pedestal, that was superb." Apparently she resigned a few hours later, but I do hope she has learned the difference between "Hazard", "Probability" and "Risk"

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

I do hope she has learned the difference between "Hazard", "Probability" and "Risk"

There lies the problem.

What most non-logistical folks fail to understand is that manual handling & loading is an every day event in Warehousing. There is a right way & a wrong way. Long before H&S stuck their snouts in, many firms trained the right way to prevent delays/injuries/inquiries.

The firm I worked for had a bi-annual instead of an annual refresher, which every body had to attend. Ours were done 10 at a time so that it could all be completed in a morning/afternoon. H&S sticks their snouts in & double the course numbers so that was 20+ workers not producing with 20 man days lost.

Also, everybody had their records marked so that the back office would know who needed training/refreshers. When transferring from one department to another, one's record was checked. Job done!

Often with H&S, failure to check records caused issues. The times I've seen them grab everybody within a department just to make up the numbers :-)

but I do hope she has learned the difference between "Hazard", "Probability" and "Risk"

Cost of mitigation gets in there somewhere.

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No, cost of mitigation comes under the solution side of the job.
Risk identification does not look at the cost of the potential solutions. Risk identification just asks the questions "Does the event present a risk? and what is the level of that risk?" Some other poor soul has the job of working out the best solution considering cost of implementation.....

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

Agree 100% again. And also fast disappearing from many countries, particularly America with electing Trump. As I have often said, it doesn't take much these days to rise above the average oik in the street.

Think everyone can guess My feelings towards Donald J Trump and 4t that a long time before he even stood for election ( let alone win ) , ( Sir Alan Lord Suger is loads better on the " Apprentice " anyho least he says " you're talkin boll#x , you're fired ;-) ) But do sort of remember people saying the same about " Ronny Raygun " when he became President and he got a lot done ( nuke reductions etc ) but that was " a different time " even if it's not that long ago . . one thing about Mr Trump i do like is he ain't a "carrier politition" even tho he's a complete a - wipe in my eyes .

£28 first class return sounds excellent value to me, but I assume that is an advance ticket?

Yea that's in advance think she's going to my " godparents" 50th wedding ani in May but still cheeper than she was expecting , stupid to think you get a good deal " on the day " ( we ain't that stupid in the "sticks ;-) " )

The perennial problem is that 21C technology needs less and less people. The only way Unions survive is by numbers of members. If the industry that they represent is downsizing or adapting to modern life, then they either keep pace with it or wither away.

In simple terms you're saying " they don't want to adapt to the changing times " well suck it up buttercup " coz times they are a changin "
Rather be living in the " now" than the 19th century industrial revolution and times before thanks . Tech is nutral it's the people who decide what use it is but ain't any need to be a " ludite" like the unions are . The Unions all over the world are " making a mess in their suits" coz they are going to be out of a job and they is unemployable ;-)

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Life is what you make of it :-)

When i'm good i'm very good , but when i'm bad i'm shi#eloads better ;-) In't I " buttercups " p.m.s.l at authoritie !!;-)

No, cost of mitigation comes under the solution side of the job.
Risk identification does not look at the cost of the potential solutions. Risk identification just asks the questions "Does the event present a risk? and what is the level of that risk?" Some other poor soul has the job of working out the best solution considering cost of implementation.....

"How are we going to stop bus" is mitigation, cost comes along for the ride once you talk mitigation.

Your example was all about making it obvious that the cost of stopping the bus was crazy compared to the risk. Why everyone laughed.

Frankly, when you consider quantum mechanical risks there are essentially an infinite number of such risks and given enough time all become certain to occur. One frequently used example is that all the oxygen atoms in the air will be on the other side of the room. (Heisenberg uncertainty principal)

There are two kinds of risks:
There are risks you can attempt to mitigate
There are risks that there is no way to mitigate

Of the risks you can mitigate the cost to mitigate is either stupid or acceptable.

Stupid cost is cost of mitigation that is more than the cost of the event happening.
Acceptable cost is cost of mitigation that is less than the cost of the event happening.


Of course there is risk of mitigation, but that becomes an infinite loop.


BTW oxygen on the other side of the room is a different risk than confined space entry that there isn't any oxygen in the room. Toxic gas in the room is yet another different risk.

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In any case we were discussing Health & Safety practices in the workplace, where cost is not the over-riding factor. If a current method of working is considered to be dangerous or unsafe, then that either has to be modified, another alternative method found, or stopped.

So just how many paper cut reduction plans have you written and implemented? Don't try and tell me that paper cuts don't happen in the workplace either, so the "current method of working is considered to be dangerous or unsafe, then that either has to be modified, another alternative method found, or stopped." Cost is always the overriding factor. Or a few bandages is far less expensive than Kevlar gloves for every employee who touches paper.

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Cost is always the overriding factor. Or a few bandages is far less expensive than Kevlar gloves for every employee who touches paper.

That's takiing it to the "exremes" in't it can you see that situation arising in any workplace ? maybe it's possible in the States ( with your suing " culture" ) but in the UK i'd like to think that common sence would play a part , even if it's " very small " .
I've got very little time for H&S / risk assesment but i've got 20+ years of welding and like to think i know what i'm doing without having to be told " by " pen pushers" or reading a piece of paper etc . ( but then w / shop staff are looked "down on" by the " shirts and tie's " who ain't got a clue " how to do the job emselfs ;- )

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Life is what you make of it :-)

When i'm good i'm very good , but when i'm bad i'm shi#eloads better ;-) In't I " buttercups " p.m.s.l at authoritie !!;-)

Gary is of course just being theatrical

Just showing you how silly your own words are about worker protection and it ALWAYS requires protection.

Now on this side of the pond OSHA may very well require classes on the prevention of paper cuts, but they are government inspectors with big fine citation books who must follow the letter of the law no matter how silly or stupid.

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It's Nowruz:)
At last.

iPhone Shocker (2016 Darwin Award Winner)

(11 December 2016, England) Drop an iPhone into your bath water, no biggie, all you get is a nasty repair bill. But drop a charging iPhone into your bath...and suddenly coroners are demanding warning labels. It is with chagrin that this writer, known to bathe while poking at a laptop keyboard, shares news of the explicable demise of Richard Bull and his iPhone.
Mr. Bull is believed to have plugged his charger into an extension cord and rested it on his chest, while using the phone in the tub in his West London home. "iWash I hadn't done that!"

Those of us who plug into plugged-in electronics must heed the coroner's warning and take a breather in the loo. Electricity and water are a sparky mix, a fact known to all, yet the doctor who conducted the iNquest plans to send a stern note to Apple, perhaps thinking that one more warning label will solve the problem.

"iWash I hadn't done that!" -Paul Seymour
"No Bull" -wR

SIDEBAR: "You're vulnerable in the bathroom." A laptop or mobile phone typically has a low voltage of 5V to 20V so you will not feel anything if it falls into your bath... as long as it is not charging. If it is charging, you are at the mercy of the transformer and its breaker fuse.

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