Coup in Turkey

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Message 1802996 - Posted: 16 Jul 2016, 18:48:15 UTC - in response to Message 1802984.  

Erdogan, it was said yesterday, he will execute those responsible for coup.
Does that make him a dictator??

Gen. Umit Dundar, the newly appointed acting chief of the general staff, says more than 190 people died in the Turkish military’s coup attempt. Those dead include: 41 police officers, two soldiers, 47 civilians and 104 people described as "coup plotters."
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Message 1803000 - Posted: 16 Jul 2016, 19:34:25 UTC - in response to Message 1802996.  

Erdogan, it was said yesterday, he will execute those responsible for coup.
Does that make him a dictator??

Does he use a civil court with a fair trial, or a military tribunal?
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Message 1803104 - Posted: 17 Jul 2016, 9:21:00 UTC

Passing the buck.

Blaming the US
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Message 1803123 - Posted: 17 Jul 2016, 14:35:01 UTC

Incirlik airspace reopened; Turkish base commander detained
http://www.stripes.com/news/incirlik-airspace-reopened-turkish-base-commander-detained-1.419571
A little scary incident because US stock in Incirlik base is at least 50 modernized B61 nuclearbombs.
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Message 1803126 - Posted: 17 Jul 2016, 14:43:48 UTC - in response to Message 1803104.  

If history is any indication things may
get very bad indeed over the next little
bit in Turkey.
I really believe the military will ride
to the rescue if the government gets too
verbose hunting down "enemies of the state."
In the past this is what has happened. Ataturk
set it all up that way after the Great War.



edit:
Still, it could all go very badly south on them...
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Message 1803153 - Posted: 17 Jul 2016, 17:15:19 UTC - in response to Message 1803151.  

May be a 'Real' Secular Military Coup.


I am furiously trying to catch up as you read this....


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Message 1803201 - Posted: 17 Jul 2016, 22:10:01 UTC - in response to Message 1802778.  

I thought that as it did not happen
over a year ago, then it was not going to
happen at all. I am surprised and saddened.


For some places, and Turkey may become widely considered for this, the fact that it happens is not the surprise- just the timing.
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Message 1803203 - Posted: 17 Jul 2016, 22:29:28 UTC - in response to Message 1803151.  
Last modified: 17 Jul 2016, 22:31:24 UTC

Understanding the History of Turkey, since 1923.
But, admitting my ignorance of what is presently happening:
The best future, for the people of Turkey. May be a 'Real' Secular Military Coup.

The Turkish people have voted for Erdogan in democratic elections.
A military coup cannot therefore be justified whatever if its a good intention or not.
But many have expressed concern that the weekend's events will further strengthen President Erdogan's power and that democracy and freedom will be curtailed.
A ‘Gift from God’ as Erdogan said.

This is worth reading.
http://warontherocks.com/2016/07/turkey-and-the-case-of-the-magical-vanishing-coup/
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Message 1803207 - Posted: 17 Jul 2016, 23:02:04 UTC - in response to Message 1803205.  
Last modified: 17 Jul 2016, 23:02:55 UTC

A Free Election, turning into a Dictatorship. IE: Marxist, Radical Islamist, etc.
Allows a Free People to overthrow it.

Yes. But the Turkish majority still wants Erdogan to be President.
I think this is very weird but there it is.

btw It reminds me of Russia but Putin is by far more liberal then Erdogan:)
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Message 1803264 - Posted: 18 Jul 2016, 10:19:21 UTC - in response to Message 1803261.  

A Free Election, turning into a Dictatorship. IE: Marxist, Radical Islamist, etc.
Allows a Free People to overthrow it.

Yes. But the Turkish majority still wants Erdogan to be President.
I think this is very weird but there it is.
btw It reminds me of Russia but Putin is by far more liberal then Erdogan:)

janne...
I am speaking from a Foundation of Western Culture. Where neither 51% nor 90% can destroy the Freedom's of others.
In The West: Nazi's win 75%, or Marxists win 75%.
The is the Right and Duty, in order to save Everyone. To overthrow their Evil. Even if a majority voted for them.
This also includes Non-Western Countries.

What is a Western culture?
Turkey is in many ways a western culture.
A secular state with no official state religion.
But they have a long history of military coups.

In order to save Everyone from Evil?
But Turkey is still a democratic country.
A minority of the Turks thinks it's not but does that give them right to overthrow a government?
Of course not.
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Message 1803318 - Posted: 18 Jul 2016, 17:13:12 UTC

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Message 1803806 - Posted: 20 Jul 2016, 21:09:05 UTC

The Great Purge.
7,500 soldiers have been detained, including 118 generals and admirals
8,000 police have been removed from their posts and 1,000 arrested
3,000 members of the judiciary, including 1,481 judges, have been suspended
15,200 education ministry officials have lost their jobs
21,000 private school teachers have had their licences revoked
1,577 university deans (faculty heads) have been asked to resign
1,500 finance ministry staff have been removed
492 clerics, preachers and religious teachers have been fired
393 social policy ministry staff have been dismissed
257 prime minister's office staff have been removed
100 intelligence officials have been suspended

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36835340
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Message 1805322 - Posted: 28 Jul 2016, 12:26:49 UTC - in response to Message 1805236.  
Last modified: 28 Jul 2016, 12:53:35 UTC

Right to Overthrow?
Yes.

Yes. But who will be the overthrowers?
Are there any good guys in Turkey capable of that?
Too much religion in this mess.

Western observers first must understand the severity of Turkey’s coup plot and the complexity of the religious group that seems to be behind it.
Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2016/07/turkey-coup-attempt-degulenification.html#ixzz4Fhnea0Tx

And now Turkey to shut...
3 news agencies
16 TV channels
23 radio stations
45 newspapers
15 magazines
29 publishing houses
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Message 1805344 - Posted: 28 Jul 2016, 14:47:27 UTC - in response to Message 1805342.  

But Erdogan is populary in Turkey.
Erdogan's immense popularity in the masses has been built up during good economic conditions, which have given generous space for reforms that benefited the poorest.
No. There will be no uprising in Turkey for years to come.
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Message 1805357 - Posted: 28 Jul 2016, 15:54:49 UTC - in response to Message 1805347.  

But Erdogan is populary in Turkey.
Erdogan's immense popularity in the masses has been built up during good economic conditions, which have given generous space for reforms that benefited the poorest.
No. There will be no uprising in Turkey for years to come.

By the time the Turkish People in the Cities and Military understand that they, and their women, will become as Iran, or possibly Saudi Arabia. It may be too late.

Too late? You make an assumption which you now must support with facts. That assumption being that they want to be western. If you haven't realized that, it is Vietnam all over again!
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Message 1805438 - Posted: 28 Jul 2016, 22:15:49 UTC - in response to Message 1805361.  

Atheist Communist China .. ?


When did China adopt Atheism? Last I checked they were a mix of various religions like Taoism, Confucianism, Buddism, Islam, and Christianity. I'm sure there's a few Atheists there, but not sure why you'd make a blanket statement like this.
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Message 1805440 - Posted: 28 Jul 2016, 22:22:54 UTC - in response to Message 1805438.  

Not that I can pull up papers for the 'official' government policy of China, but wasn't the popular impression that China tended to suppress religious observances, which would make it, in practice, atheistic?
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Message 1805445 - Posted: 28 Jul 2016, 22:41:17 UTC - in response to Message 1805438.  

Atheist Communist China .. ?

When did China adopt Atheism? Last I checked they were a mix of various religions like Taoism, Confucianism, Buddism, Islam, and Christianity. I'm sure there's a few Atheists there, but not sure why you'd make a blanket statement like this.

From the Mao's Red Book "Self-Reliance and Arduous Struggle" chapter 21:
Our GOD is none other than the masses of the Chinese people.

I would like to paraphrase it to Turkey and Erdogan.
Our GOD is none other than the masses of the Turkish people.
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Message 1805451 - Posted: 28 Jul 2016, 23:00:22 UTC - in response to Message 1805438.  

Atheist Communist China .. ?


When did China adopt Atheism?

1949.
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Message 1805464 - Posted: 28 Jul 2016, 23:40:41 UTC - in response to Message 1805454.  
Last modified: 28 Jul 2016, 23:41:10 UTC

Comparing Mao to Erdogan?
Re: Our way, or imprisonment and death.
Possibly.

It's very possibly in Turkey.
https://www.hrw.org/europe/central-asia/turkey
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