Arecibo still threatened with closure.

Message boards : News : Arecibo still threatened with closure.
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

Previous · 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · Next

AuthorMessage
Profile Chris S Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 19 Nov 00
Posts: 40545
Credit: 41,374,877
RAC: 725
United Kingdom
Message 1795319 - Posted: 11 Jun 2016, 8:23:51 UTC

Great news about the Nitpicker (now Nebula) backup from the Einstein AEI. Not being seen to be doing anything with 17 years of data was a stumbling block.

I still have hope that SETI@home will eventually be funded through Breakthrough. If it is not, we will continue to pursue other funding sources. If that doesn't work, we'll limp along until were run out.

I and others will hang in there with you Eric, never fear.
ID: 1795319 · Report as offensive
Profile Crunch3r
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 15 Apr 99
Posts: 1546
Credit: 3,438,544
RAC: 0
Germany
Message 1795362 - Posted: 11 Jun 2016, 13:42:33 UTC - in response to Message 1795225.  



Without having some sort of NITPCKR running 24/7, analysing data REALTIME (o r as close as we can get), it’s a waste of out time anyways.

Would’nt you agree ?



We've been very bad at telling you what's up with the NTPCkR. Although it's not politically expedient to say so, Breakthrough has actually left SETI@home even more resource starved than it was before. People that were working primarily on SETI@home have transitioned to Breakthrough, and thus far, no funding from Breakthrough has been directed at SETI@home and we don't currently have the funding to replace them. We're hoping that will change, but have few options how to bring it about. In essence we're in the same place we've always been, barely getting by, but with even fewer people on the job.

That doesn't mean we've made no progress, though. It became apparent that our available hardware was insufficient for running the nitpicker. What has happened is that Bruce Allen (of Einstein@home) has allowed us to use some time on a supercomputer at the Albert Einstein Institute for Gravitational Physics in Hannover to run the nitpicker, which we've renamed Nebula because it's no longer "near real time". We've done some tests on 1% of the database, and estimate that a full run of the database will take about 5 days, and we plan to do such a run at least 4 times a year. If we overstay our welcome at AEI we'll probably have to search out cloud resources for the runs.

I'll try to get some more info out about that in the near future. The port is mostly complete, apart from tuning up the RFI rejection. Fingers crossed we'll have some candidate news by the end of the summer.


That's kind of a bad news/good news scenario. First of all i'm quite happy that AEI(and Bruce of course) allowed SETI@Home to make use of use their cluster, at least that makes sure that data is beeing analysed at all.

However, i'm quite puzzled that "breakthrough listen" had such a bad impact on SETI@Home.

I'd like to know why there's a "migration" from SETI@Home towards other SETI projects, specifically if those other SETI projects are considered more promissing or if it's just for the funding via "breakthrough listen".

Join BOINC United now!
ID: 1795362 · Report as offensive
tbret
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 28 May 99
Posts: 3377
Credit: 272,791,251
RAC: 69,294
United States
Message 1795401 - Posted: 11 Jun 2016, 16:14:25 UTC - in response to Message 1795299.  

Because Yuri Milner did make SETI@home a significant part of the Breakthrough Listen announcement, I still have hope that SETI@home will eventually be funded through Breakthrough.


Eric,

Given:
Mr. Milner is a very wealthy man.
Wealthy men usually hire / appoint people to run things for them.
Wealthy men, who are philanthropists, want what they want.
Mr. Milner made a very public show of his support.
Powerful men do not like being made liars.

Someone with the correct bona fides should point-out to Mr. Milner that none of his intentions regarding SETI@Home are being honored due to a lack of resources to even lobby for the tiny amount of help this project currently needs.

They might even point-out that his initiative has had the unintended effect of stripping manpower from the only search he could use as an example.

The "needs" should be enumerated and priced. (This allows a powerful man to turn to someone and say, "Handle this," instead of "Call them and start a month-long process of discussing it and getting it approved by the Board.") They don't want to know the small details of a $10k or $30k expenditure, just "we can't function; to function we must have; we don't have...

On the other hand, I know of a non-profit that just sits and waits for news and hardware funding requests...

I know, and you know, that this project is burning a lot of fuel world-wide. The computing power and equivalent monthly donations you cited are amazing. Does anyone but a person reading this thread know that? Why isn't it BLAZONED across the homepage how much computing power "we" generate? It is time to blow your own horn since nobody will do it for you.

Let me ask you a question about Arecibo. If it were for sale and you could purchase Arecibo, would you find the search we can do with it (considering it isn't steerable, of course) worth the cost, or would there be more fruitful things you could do with the same amount of money?
ID: 1795401 · Report as offensive
Profile tullio Project Donor
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 9 Apr 04
Posts: 6815
Credit: 1,996,465
RAC: 498
Italy
Message 1795408 - Posted: 11 Jun 2016, 16:30:30 UTC

Science is not a show business, somebody should tell Yuri Milner.
Tullio
ID: 1795408 · Report as offensive
tbret
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 28 May 99
Posts: 3377
Credit: 272,791,251
RAC: 69,294
United States
Message 1795426 - Posted: 11 Jun 2016, 17:31:34 UTC - in response to Message 1795362.  



I'd like to know why there's a "migration" from SETI@Home towards other SETI projects, specifically if those other SETI projects are considered more promissing or if it's just for the funding via "breakthrough listen".


I can't answer the question, but I do have some thoughts.

You know that SETI@Home is only part of the listening that is going-on. Just as a single example, there is SERENDIP VI.

I suspect that the project leads are more interested in some of these other efforts because they are more real-time (if not real-time) and if a big signal is detectable these other projects will detect it.

I also suspect that they are more interested in the "new" methods of searching since the "old" methods of searching have been fruitless since Frank Drake first listened to static all those years ago.

What we compute-on is background noise in-which no signal has been found, already. We're doing deep, deep, deep, deep, deep into the noise signal processing trying to eek-out a signal.

Here's the problem as I see it: Let's say we've already found a signal. Pretend several of us found a 3.14159 second signal from Arecibo, say. It's in the database as I type.

1) Nobody knows it is there because the database itself has not been thoroughly searched (per Eric's message, above).
2) We may not be able to "test" that signal if we can't get observation-time on Arecibo at just the right time.
3) If it were tested and confirmed, it is so far into the noise that nobody is going to believe it, even if it is found twice.
4) More would have to be done.

The other projects - well, maybe (I don't know this) are searching for something more verifiable NOW, right NOW, "Eureka!"

Also, we're looking for a purposefully sent signal (by the band we cover). Other attempts are looking for signals that may have been "leaked" (by the "channels on the radio dial" they cover). There are fewer conditions precedent for them to pick something up. The likelihood that there is "something there" probably rises by several orders of magnitude every time you remove a required condition.

But all of that is the very WORST kind of speculation. You can't dismiss the original assumptions made when this project was new - like I just seem to have.

FIRST, you have to look at the data we've already processed.

Using Eric's own numbers, that database represents an investment of how much money, time, electricity, etc. ? I'll bet it's worth more than the Hope Diamond and several cubic meters of gold put-together.

I'm very happy to see that someone in Germany thinks it is worth the cost to at least begin attempting to look at the data. There should be a LOT of it (thanks to SETI@Home staff and volunteers) to look-at. It is difficult to assess this project's value until that is done.

So... If you are a SETI scientist with a new theory (like looking for interplanetary communications in a single solar-system made to look promising from Kepler data, accidentally pointed this way occasionally), are you going to support the analysis of SETI@Home data-processing where we're looking randomly in an infinite universe for a very narrow signal deep into the noise, or are you going to point the GBT or more likely Parkes, at a known target and analyze the crap out of that signal *right now?*

From the ignorant person's perspective, this project has been going-on for 17 years without success. They don't even realize that we may have already found something, but we don't know it yet.

So, I can't give-up on it, yet. We just need some massive computing power and a little more human time spent. You may have already found an alien signal.
ID: 1795426 · Report as offensive
Profile Chris S Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 19 Nov 00
Posts: 40545
Credit: 41,374,877
RAC: 725
United Kingdom
Message 1795428 - Posted: 11 Jun 2016, 17:41:50 UTC

I would have posted earlier except for an unwarranted intervention.

I'd like to know why there's a "migration" from SETI@Home towards other SETI projects, specifically if those other SETI projects are considered more promissing or if it's just for the funding via "breakthrough listen".


I'd like to know why you are so negative about Seti@Home?

Signed,

Chris S
(remember me??)
ID: 1795428 · Report as offensive
Profile mindcont

Send message
Joined: 18 Oct 15
Posts: 1
Credit: 893,166
RAC: 0
China
Message 1795526 - Posted: 12 Jun 2016, 1:50:28 UTC - in response to Message 1794850.  

Hi Eric,

Many words of encouragement, I add one more, always remember "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

I come from china ,Rooting for you !!!
ID: 1795526 · Report as offensive
Profile betreger Project Donor
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 29 Jun 99
Posts: 7939
Credit: 18,935,651
RAC: 8,413
United States
Message 1795531 - Posted: 12 Jun 2016, 2:13:26 UTC - in response to Message 1795225.  



Without having some sort of NITPCKR running 24/7, analysing data REALTIME (o r as close as we can get), it’s a waste of out time anyways.

Would’nt you agree ?



We've been very bad at telling you what's up with the NTPCkR. Although it's not politically expedient to say so, Breakthrough has actually left SETI@home even more resource starved than it was before. People that were working primarily on SETI@home have transitioned to Breakthrough, and thus far, no funding from Breakthrough has been directed at SETI@home and we don't currently have the funding to replace them. We're hoping that will change, but have few options how to bring it about. In essence we're in the same place we've always been, barely getting by, but with even fewer people on the job.

That doesn't mean we've made no progress, though. It became apparent that our available hardware was insufficient for running the nitpicker. What has happened is that Bruce Allen (of Einstein@home) has allowed us to use some time on a supercomputer at the Albert Einstein Institute for Gravitational Physics in Hannover to run the nitpicker, which we've renamed Nebula because it's no longer "near real time". We've done some tests on 1% of the database, and estimate that a full run of the database will take about 5 days, and we plan to do such a run at least 4 times a year. If we overstay our welcome at AEI we'll probably have to search out cloud resources for the runs.

I'll try to get some more info out about that in the near future. The port is mostly complete, apart from tuning up the RFI rejection. Fingers crossed we'll have some candidate news by the end of the summer.

How many toasters did you have to give Dr Allen to swing that?
ID: 1795531 · Report as offensive
Profile SUPER PRIVILEGED & I'm **in' RACIST; I'm **in' BIGOTED; I'm **in' PREJUDICED; I'm **in' JUDGEMENTAL; I **In' Have ALL dA CONSCIOUS & UNCONSCIOUS BIAS & ALL Other NASTIEs a HuWoMan Can **in' Have. ALL AGENDAs ALL dA **in' Time Kind of Gender. MORONIC&DULL
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 16 Jun 02
Posts: 3944
Credit: 5,800,832
RAC: 890
Russia
Message 1795539 - Posted: 12 Jun 2016, 3:44:50 UTC

From the ignorant person's perspective, this project has been going-on for 17 years without success. They don't even realize that we may have already found something, but we don't know it yet.


Since Very NOT IGNORANT Multi-Billionaires, NOT IGNORANT Multi-Millionaires, Very Well Versed In Science HAVE NOT Given One Cent to S@H and Fore SeeAble Future Deems a Continued Attitude Towards Such, More Likely another 17 years, is Not Gunna Happen.

ET Yaps and No One Hears.


ID: 1795539 · Report as offensive
Profile Chris S Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 19 Nov 00
Posts: 40545
Credit: 41,374,877
RAC: 725
United Kingdom
Message 1795580 - Posted: 12 Jun 2016, 9:37:56 UTC

NSF also intends to initiate consultation under Section 106 of the National Historic Preservation Act to evaluate potential effects to the Arecibo Observatory, which is a historic property listed in the National Register of Historic Places.

Is that the equivalent of the UK Listed buildings? i.e. even if decommissioned it wont be dismantled?
ID: 1795580 · Report as offensive
Profile tullio Project Donor
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 9 Apr 04
Posts: 6815
Credit: 1,996,465
RAC: 498
Italy
Message 1795581 - Posted: 12 Jun 2016, 9:41:41 UTC

Arecibo is what in Carso (Karst) highland is called a dolina. It cannot be dismantled. Also the China FAST is in a dolina.
Tullio
ID: 1795581 · Report as offensive
Grant (SSSF)
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 19 Aug 99
Posts: 10088
Credit: 133,206,281
RAC: 83,425
Australia
Message 1795586 - Posted: 12 Jun 2016, 10:38:43 UTC - in response to Message 1795581.  

Arecibo is what in Carso (Karst) highland is called a dolina. It cannot be dismantled. Also the China FAST is in a dolina.
Tullio

The landform it's in can't be dismantled (at least not without lots of explosives), however all of the structures & equipment can be removed. Arecibo the place will still be there, but not the observatory.
Grant
Darwin NT
ID: 1795586 · Report as offensive
Profile zubr2009
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 3 Mar 13
Posts: 24
Credit: 147,854
RAC: 0
Belarus
Message 1795587 - Posted: 12 Jun 2016, 10:43:18 UTC

It's all the machinations of the reptilians in the government of the United States. They will not give you anything to find. You say he's talking complete nonsense, maybe stupid :), maybe :D. But maybe not. We'll all cross our fingers and pray for you that this project lived. Good luck Eric came in the struggle for Finance. We will pray for you and for the project. :)
(this is machine translation, sorry).
Горы, нет ничего лучше гор. :)
Mountains, there is nothing better than mountains. :)
Life is good when you live without haste! ))
ID: 1795587 · Report as offensive
Profile zubr2009
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 3 Mar 13
Posts: 24
Credit: 147,854
RAC: 0
Belarus
Message 1795588 - Posted: 12 Jun 2016, 10:58:11 UTC - in response to Message 1795362.  
Last modified: 12 Jun 2016, 11:03:22 UTC

Hooray, we have a humanoid! I see this is a project that interested them too. You ask who is he? Yes, that's it http://clip2net.com/s/3z78uot they are already here! Why do they look for in space? )







This is a joke! )))
ID: 1795588 · Report as offensive
KB Whitmire

Send message
Joined: 4 Apr 14
Posts: 1
Credit: 1,503,999
RAC: 1,410
United States
Message 1795693 - Posted: 12 Jun 2016, 17:45:45 UTC - in response to Message 1795138.  
Last modified: 12 Jun 2016, 17:50:05 UTC

RE: Message 1795138

Figures this response would come from a religionist.
ID: 1795693 · Report as offensive
OzzFan Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 Apr 02
Posts: 15659
Credit: 65,355,636
RAC: 14,950
United States
Message 1795700 - Posted: 12 Jun 2016, 17:59:41 UTC - in response to Message 1795693.  

The poster of message 1795138 self-identifies as Atheist. He does, however, enjoy saying things in an as antangonistic way as possible.
ID: 1795700 · Report as offensive
Profile Crunch3r
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 15 Apr 99
Posts: 1546
Credit: 3,438,544
RAC: 0
Germany
Message 1795712 - Posted: 12 Jun 2016, 18:32:57 UTC - in response to Message 1795428.  
Last modified: 12 Jun 2016, 18:35:41 UTC

I would have posted earlier except for an unwarranted intervention.

I'd like to know why there's a "migration" from SETI@Home towards other SETI projects, specifically if those other SETI projects are considered more promissing or if it's just for the funding via "breakthrough listen".


I'd like to know why you are so negative about Seti@Home?

Signed,

Chris S
(remember me??)


What are you talking about ? Didn't i post that i'm quite happy that AEIs cluster gets used for finally analysing SETI@Home data ???

Regarding my question, without it you'd never have known about the AEI cluster being used in the first place.

I'd guess you'd like to be left in the dark about the data that got preprocessed by "us" and just ignore the fact that it wasn't analysed for years.

Besides all that, no i don't remember you and i don't care about what you got to say.

P.S. Stop spamming my inbox, posting personal threats.

Join BOINC United now!
ID: 1795712 · Report as offensive
Profile Crunch3r
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 15 Apr 99
Posts: 1546
Credit: 3,438,544
RAC: 0
Germany
Message 1795715 - Posted: 12 Jun 2016, 18:51:02 UTC - in response to Message 1795588.  
Last modified: 12 Jun 2016, 18:52:30 UTC

Hooray, we have a humanoid! I see this is a project that interested them too. You ask who is he? Yes, that's it http://clip2net.com/s/3z78uot they are already here! Why do they look for in space? )







This is a joke! )))


Damn it , you figured it out! I've been hiding on earth for a bunch of years,without getting noticed.

I guess i've got to find a new hiding place :(



Join BOINC United now!
ID: 1795715 · Report as offensive
Sirius B Project Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 26 Dec 00
Posts: 18966
Credit: 2,647,110
RAC: 2,104
Ireland
Message 1795718 - Posted: 12 Jun 2016, 19:02:01 UTC

Just finished watching an excellent documentary Journey to Space (trailer only)

The Orion project looks interesting.

From the days of Sputnik through Mercury, Gemini, Apollo, Apollo/Soyuz, Shuttle & then ISS, the world was fascinated, one only needs to remember Apollo 13 to see how much interest there was.

As Carl Sagan said, the future is in the stars.

With the amount being spent on defence, surely science can be funded much more than the paltry 2.5% to date?

As stated in the documentary, fortune favours the brave & the space pioneers to date deserves our thanks.

What a better tribute to those pioneers if the US regains it's lead in Space.
ID: 1795718 · Report as offensive
Mark Stevenson Special Project $75 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 8 Sep 11
Posts: 1633
Credit: 154,192,752
RAC: 38,139
United Kingdom
Message 1795723 - Posted: 12 Jun 2016, 19:07:32 UTC - in response to Message 1795718.  

The Orion project looks interesting


Looks like a larger Apollo module but shame about "re-using" the name when i hear " Orion " i think of this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion)
Life is what you make of it :-)

When i'm good i'm very good , but when i'm bad i'm shi#eloads better ;-) In't I " buttercups " p.m.s.l at authoritie !!;-)
ID: 1795723 · Report as offensive
Previous · 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · Next

Message boards : News : Arecibo still threatened with closure.


 
©2018 University of California
 
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.