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Number crunching :
Decided to Bail Out on SETI for a Short While
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Author | Message |
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Cruncher-American Send message Joined: 25 Mar 02 Posts: 1513 Credit: 370,893,186 RAC: 340 |
All this crud between Credit New and vlars on Nvidia GPUs has been discouraging - not so much for the fall in credit (although...yeah), but for the apparent lack of concern of the Powers That Be, so I am going to stand down for 2 weeks or so, to see if (like cable TV) I can drop this SETI habit. We shall see. I have shut down my two crunchers, and put a hold on my 2xE5-2670 cruncher (for which I got all the parts already). |
GTP Send message Joined: 5 Jul 99 Posts: 67 Credit: 137,504,906 RAC: 0 |
I may be joining you at this point! Unsettling response (or lackthereof) from management has me question the entire projects validity. Good luck. All the best, Aaron Lephart |
Ulrich Metzner Send message Joined: 3 Jul 02 Posts: 1256 Credit: 13,565,513 RAC: 13 |
I'm off to milkyway for ~10 days and already have double RAC than had here. Go figure... Aloha, Uli |
Chris Adamek Send message Joined: 15 May 99 Posts: 251 Credit: 434,772,072 RAC: 236 |
You know if exo-planets were discovered before seti@home started, we probably would have been focused on doing targeted searches from the beginning and no one would have ever known anything but VLARs and all this whining could have been skipped. But hey, draw your pointless line in the sand and say "I quit!" with conviction so that maybe someone will care. I wouldn't hold my breath though. Chris |
OTS Send message Joined: 6 Jan 08 Posts: 369 Credit: 20,533,537 RAC: 0 |
All this crud between Credit New and vlars on Nvidia GPUs has been discouraging - not so much for the fall in credit (although...yeah), but for the apparent lack of concern of the Powers That Be, so I am going to stand down for 2 weeks or so, to see if (like cable TV) I can drop this SETI habit. I came to the same decision and stopped a week ago. It is amazing how much better you feel when you sit down at your computer when you break the habit. Before I was always checking to see if APs were available or if a new Linux app was finally out or whatever. I am not saying I will never be back but it seemed like a break was needed so I decided to take it to get a fresh perspective and see if the dust will settle a bit at SETI. As a plus I am now consuming 200 watts less an hour. :). |
Mr. Kevvy Send message Joined: 15 May 99 Posts: 3776 Credit: 1,114,826,392 RAC: 3,319 |
In case it was missed in the decreasing credit thread: I was able to contact Dr. Eric Korpela. He indicated that a solution to allow GUPPI VLAR GPU work units to be refused in the Project Prefs. is being worked on. Please pass it along... They know. I'm in the same boat... I just spent thousands to upgrade the farm to all Maxwells plus a new four-card cruncher and this happens. I try to look at the bright side. Here's the bright side: 1) The work we're doing is far more likely to find something, being targeted at known nearby planetary systems with planets as similar to ours as possible. 2) We've gone from a work shortage to too much work; there's always enough now. 3) Because this project is being scrutinized as part of Breakthrough Listen, this work is going to be used, analyzed and searched. It is not going to sit in a database collecting digital dust. I can't tell you how I know this, but I do. This work is worthwhile. 4) My GPUs don't run dry of work on short outages (ie Tuesdays) because the VLAR work units take longer. 5) This problem is due to the memory architecture of NVidia cards. It isn't the SETI@Home team's fault, so at least there's that. There's no malice or sloppy coding etc. behind it. If anything we should complain to NVidia as they are pushing CUDA as a scientific computing platform. 6) The GPUs run cooler and so will probably last longer. 7) Half the world can't even get enough food to eat, so we're pretty well off if this is all we have to worry about. Gotta mention this. :^) |
OTS Send message Joined: 6 Jan 08 Posts: 369 Credit: 20,533,537 RAC: 0 |
In case it was missed in the decreasing credit thread: They are treating the symptom, not the disease. |
Raistmer Send message Joined: 16 Jun 01 Posts: 6325 Credit: 106,370,077 RAC: 121 |
What disease? Whole huge set of data that need to be processed? SETI project is not about addictions or catching AP tasks or whatever. It's about attempt to find any signs of intellect out of Earth. But some times reading these boards I wonder if same search for intellect needed on Earth too... |
OTS Send message Joined: 6 Jan 08 Posts: 369 Credit: 20,533,537 RAC: 0 |
What disease? The symptom is abandoning work because of the of the flawed credit system. The cure is not to treat the symptom alone by preventing the abandonment of tasks, but to treat the disease that the symptom indicates, the flawed credit system. |
Mr. Kevvy Send message Joined: 15 May 99 Posts: 3776 Credit: 1,114,826,392 RAC: 3,319 |
The symptom is abandoning work because of the of the flawed credit system. As noted too often (including in point #5 below) the people who are doing this inevitably have NVidia cards, which are processing the GUPPI VLAR work slowly due to a design flaw in the memory architecture. Unfortunately, the credit system won't fix that. The only way of doing that would be to have a special multiplier to arbitrarily grant 2.5x the credit for a GUPPI VLAR work unit if it's done on an NVidia card. If that is done, then why shouldn't every other sub-optimally slow platform get its multiplier? |
Chris Adamek Send message Joined: 15 May 99 Posts: 251 Credit: 434,772,072 RAC: 236 |
Why do people keep saying there is a design flaw. AMD and Nvidia just have different approaches and tasks they are optimized for. THERE IS NO DESIGN FLAW. I don't know how many times that has to be said. AMD users don't bitch and moan about design flaws when higher range work units run faster on Nvidia cards. The reason VLARs run slower on nvidia cards is similar to why Astropule wu's run slower on them compared to AMD cards. There are innate differences in the architectures and long serialized computations just take longer on nvidia cards than on AMD cards. The flip side is you can parallelize the hell out of Maxwell and beyond using streams and such and make them absolutely fly on shorties and midrange wu's. Problem is, the really interesting stuff to look at is probably hanging around planets. Not just out in random swathes of space that we can happen to look at from the northern hemisphere. The problem is credit new and the problem is a lot of people are feeling a little screwed because they've invested a lot in one architecture that was really good at solving one type of problem. The problem being solved has now changed, likely largely for good. All you folks with 4, 6, 8 card setups are still kicking everyone's ass on RAC. But I get it, it sucks, I've lost 10's of thousands of RAC. Just try to remember it has nothing to do with the a design FLAW but rather our data changed as we as found more interesting things to look at... I mean whatever, if farming bitcoins or finding gravity waves is more interesting than finding extraterrestrial signals from actual planetary systems then great. Just remember, at lot of those project run better on AMD cards too and it's not because of a design flaw either... Anyway I'm ranting so I'll stop.:) Chris |
Wembley Send message Joined: 16 Sep 09 Posts: 429 Credit: 1,844,293 RAC: 0 |
Crunching on your GPU is still faster than crunching on your CPU. People have lost sight of why we are here. It's not all about the credits. If that is the only reason you are here, then good riddance, we won't miss you. |
OTS Send message Joined: 6 Jan 08 Posts: 369 Credit: 20,533,537 RAC: 0 |
Crunching on your GPU is still faster than crunching on your CPU. I would not say it is the "only reason" for any cruncher, particularly those who crunch for SETI, but I am sure it is on the minds of many people whether they profess so or not. Just look at the number of signature blocks which indicate how many credits have been earned. |
Siran d'Vel'nahr Send message Joined: 23 May 99 Posts: 7379 Credit: 44,181,323 RAC: 238 |
Greetings, I'm sorry to have to admit to this, but... For quite some time I have seriously been thinking of backing away from SETI@Home. It is the only project my PC crunches for. But, because of the rash of BSoD (Blue Screen of Death) events I have been having, I started thinking of ending the crunching and shut down my PC every night. This would tend to give it a longer lifespan, I think. ;) As someone else mentioned, I too spend too much time coming here to see if there are any AP WUs to be had. But, any more, the AP WUs no longer help my RAC which in turn helps my overall bragging rights credits (not that I have that much to brag about). ;) I am 4 days shy of my 17th anniversary with SETI@Home. That's a long time to put toward any endeavor. Perhaps I should just run my cache dry and take a break for a while... :) Keep on BOINCing...! :) CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\// Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker "Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath |
Mark Stevenson Send message Joined: 8 Sep 11 Posts: 1736 Credit: 174,899,165 RAC: 91 |
Everyone knows credit screw is crap , people leaving the project coz they can get more credit elsewhere says a lot about them people . I don't give a shi#e if you want to have a go at me bring it on , just saying what I think if you don't like it that's your problem not mine !!! Edit : Fairly sure I ain't the only person thinking what I just posted Life is what you make of it :-) When i'm good i'm very good , but when i'm bad i'm shi#eloads better ;-) In't I " buttercups " p.m.s.l at authoritie !!;-) |
kittyman Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 51468 Credit: 1,018,363,574 RAC: 1,004 |
Well folks..... The kitties are not giving up. Even though my RAC is in decline, and the new Guppi work is crunching rather poorly on my GPUs for now, I am not giving up. Not me. I'll be here doing what I can do until the last Seti WU is sent out or we find what we are looking for. I'm not here to diss anybody that thinks they need a break, or wish to go to other projects for RAC hunting. Boinc has a lot of other project choices, many of which are also very worthy. That is you personal decision. But this cat is stayin' here at Seti. Meow! "Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster |
Raistmer Send message Joined: 16 Jun 01 Posts: 6325 Credit: 106,370,077 RAC: 121 |
I started thinking of ending the crunching and shut down my PC every night. This would tend to give it a longer lifespan, I think. ;) In the view of technical correctness you think wrong. Such behavior definitely will reduce PC lifespan for quite obvious reasons. To illustrate them consider policy that brings human in coma every night to prolong his "lifespan". For electronic device initial current establishing and temperature gradients that always accompany power cycle nothing else as bring to and from coma for biologic being. My own many-years PC experience confirms this strongly. I never saw PC that broke while working. But all those PC refused to start after last quite usual power off... [No need to say that I met much less PCs deaths than my friends who switch PC off through the night :) ] |
Siran d'Vel'nahr Send message Joined: 23 May 99 Posts: 7379 Credit: 44,181,323 RAC: 238 |
Everyone knows credit screw is crap , people leaving the project coz they can get more credit elsewhere says a lot about them people . I don't give a shi#e if you want to have a go at me bring it on , just saying what I think if you don't like it that's your problem not mine !!! Greetings, I'm fairly sure I mentioned my reason for think about at least taking a break and I'm fairly sure it had nothing to do with my RAC or credits. If I was here merely for the credits, I believe my credits would be up there with the kitty man Mark. They're not, so there. :P I'm not thinking of taking a break or even leaving SETI@Home just because of a low RAC and credits. Have a great day! :) Keep on BOINCing...! :) CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\// Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker "Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath |
Cruncher-American Send message Joined: 25 Mar 02 Posts: 1513 Credit: 370,893,186 RAC: 340 |
Why do people keep saying there is a design flaw. Maybe I wasn't clear in my original statement - I meant there was a design flaw in the CODE, not the hardware. If you know hardware has certain characteristics, you should code with that in mind, not just implement an algorithm that (maybe) doesn't take hardware quirks into account. In the case at hand, if the AR affects how the code executes time-wise (as it does), than that should be compensated for (as much as possible) in the implementation actually coded. Just as the Lunatics code is written to work differently on different implementations of hardware in the CPUs. THAT is what I meant... and that's why I called it a design flaw. Anybody remember the old Pentium FDIV bug? It could be coded around, once it was known. Anyway, it really bothers me that my nice 980s are basically producing much less results for the current they are drawing (about 1/4 of previous), so I am experimenting with a 32-thread machine to replace at least one of my crunchers, When that is up and running, I will likely return, after maybe selling my GPUs. Yes, they still produce more work than CPU cores, but not enough, it would seem, to justify the electricity expense - the 980 draws around 150 watts while running 3 WUs at a time, and an 8c/16t CPU around 115. So no longer is the 980 justifiable, at least until the code is fixed. |
tullio Send message Joined: 9 Apr 04 Posts: 8797 Credit: 2,930,782 RAC: 1 |
I have 3 PCs working 24/7, one from January 2008, one from June 2012 and one from August 2014. I shut them down only when going on vacation, but this is becoming less frequent now because of health problems. I only changed some disks with bigger ones, but my experience with SSDs was negative, and I reverted to hard disks, one of them hybrid. Tullio |
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