"Pro-Brexit ex-cabinet minister Iain Duncan Smith said the documents showed Prime Minister David Cameron was involved with the European Commission in "an appalling deceit" to keep the prospect secret until after the EU referendum vote on 23 June.

He said: "They say nothing is happening about Turkey, but this shows they are already making official plans to allow visa free access for Turkish citizens.

"The attempt to hide this, and to delay key decisions until after the referendum, is cynical in the extreme.""

Turkey

Getting down & dirty...

"The prime minister said Brexit could cause a "black hole" in the public finances and threaten the "triple lock" guaranteeing state pension increases.

He told Andrew Marr "our economy would be smaller" if the UK left the single market leading to "difficult choices"."

Well the £50 billion we wouldn't have to pay Brussels would go a long way to alleviate that :-)

Leaving the EU will turn out just like it did when we left the ERM...the best decision we ever made.

Leaving the EU will mean risking that many jobs disappear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVoPioMxU2E

Really? How do you arrive at that?

IKEA invested in the UK in 1987, 8 years before Sweden joined the EU. It didn't make a difference then & it won't make a difference if we leave.

Really? How do you arrive at that?
IKEA invested in the UK in 1987, 8 years before Sweden joined the EU. It didn't make a difference then & it won't make a difference if we leave.

It was EFTA back then, the European Free Trade organization founded in 1960 by Denmark, Norway, Portugal, Switzerland, the UK, Sweden and Austria.
If the UK leaves the EU, what trade agreement will the UK have with Sweden?

Really? How do you arrive at that?
IKEA invested in the UK in 1987, 8 years before Sweden joined the EU. It didn't make a difference then & it won't make a difference if we leave.

It was EFTA back then, the European Free Trade organization founded in 1960 by Denmark, Norway, Portugal, Switzerland, the UK, Sweden and Austria.
If the UK leaves the EU, what trade agreement will the UK have with Sweden?

Will have a good trade deal eventually since public support for the EU in Sweden is falling off. To this end perhaps the Swedes will leave too just like us.

Really? How do you arrive at that?
IKEA invested in the UK in 1987, 8 years before Sweden joined the EU. It didn't make a difference then & it won't make a difference if we leave.

It was EFTA back then, the European Free Trade organization founded in 1960 by Denmark, Norway, Portugal, Switzerland, the UK, Sweden and Austria.
If the UK leaves the EU, what trade agreement will the UK have with Sweden?

Will have a good trade deal eventually since public support for the EU in Sweden is falling off. To this end perhaps the Swedes will leave too just like us.

Not only Sweden. The other Nordic countries as well.
And as you know it will be much harder for us to negoiate with countries like Germany and France when we would have much fewer votes.
They don't even speak english in the EU parliament!

sidenote.
Marmite:) Is that approved by the EU?

sidenote.
Marmite:) Is that approved by the EU?

I don't know about its approval status... BUT....

A friend of mine from Bristol gave me a jar of it back around 1981....

ICK! (just my opinion, of course... *some* people must like the stuff...)


I may be incorrect, but didn't Denmark ban it back in... uhh... 2011, at least briefly?

I may be incorrect, but didn't Denmark ban it back in... uhh... 2011, at least briefly?

Hehehe:)
There is no Marmite ban in Denmark.
I don't think in any EU country.
Funny story though.

http://www.nutraingredients.com/Regulation-Policy/Denmark-There-is-no-Marmite-ban[img][/img]

However "Snus" is banned.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snus


The US:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSTZmf5nlSE

Why is the EU anthem song in German?
"An die Freude"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo_-KoBiBG0

https://vimeo.com/90521454

Sorry. There is a british version by Robert Bennington.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWGZdYNpaSo

But perhaps we in the Nordic countries should get used to this very beautiful anthem.
Actually already I am:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BulFwGSi8bc

Really? How do you arrive at that?
IKEA invested in the UK in 1987, 8 years before Sweden joined the EU. It didn't make a difference then & it won't make a difference if we leave.

It was EFTA back then, the European Free Trade organization founded in 1960 by Denmark, Norway, Portugal, Switzerland, the UK, Sweden and Austria.
If the UK leaves the EU, what trade agreement will the UK have with Sweden?

Will have a good trade deal eventually since public support for the EU in Sweden is falling off. To this end perhaps the Swedes will leave too just like us.

Not only Sweden. The other Nordic countries as well.
And as you know it will be much harder for us to negoiate with countries like Germany and France when we would have much fewer votes.
They don't even speak english in the EU parliament!

sidenote.
Marmite:) Is that approved by the EU?

Yes, Marmite is still an approved product since it does not challenge anything similar that Germany produces. Er' Dyson Group Plc comes to mind here, good old Corporate Europe Observatory working to protect the interests of the Germany manufacturing industry. Marmite contains a lot of salt so eating too much of it can be considered a health hazard.

4½ years ago, the first of these series of threads appeared. I still think the same now as I did then. The European Union was a fantastic concept.

What destroyed it was the unswerving belief that "one size fits all" idea.

Well as history has proven, "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" failed at an immense cost to Europe.

It has taken 4½ years for more powerful people than us to wake up & realise it.

Personally, it shows that we "oinks in the street" are not as dumb as we are taken for.

European President wants to bury "The European Dream"

Just one paragraph from that report, states it all about the EU as it currently stands: -

"In a remarkable series of speeches, a newly emboldened Tusk has taken aim at what he portrayed as a European reflex for “confronting reality with all kinds of utopias.” His rhetorical assault on the idea of European integration as a cure-all — arguably the governing religion of the EU for several decades — reached a crescendo in an address in Brussels earlier this month, when Tusk blamed “lyrical and in fact naïve Euro-enthusiastic visions of total integration” for “the strengthening of Euroskeptic moods” across the continent."

I'm off to put my feet up & enjoy several Rum & Blacks - stuff Doctors Orders :-)

4½ years ago, the first of these series of threads appeared. I still think the same now as I did then. The European Union was a fantastic concept.

What destroyed it was the unswerving belief that "one size fits all" idea.

Well as history has proven, "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" failed at an immense cost to Europe.

It has taken 4½ years for more powerful people than us to wake up & realise it.

Personally, it shows that we "oinks in the street" are not as dumb as we are taken for.

European President wants to bury "The European Dream"

Just one paragraph from that report, states it all about the EU as it currently stands: -

"In a remarkable series of speeches, a newly emboldened Tusk has taken aim at what he portrayed as a European reflex for “confronting reality with all kinds of utopias.” His rhetorical assault on the idea of European integration as a cure-all — arguably the governing religion of the EU for several decades — reached a crescendo in an address in Brussels earlier this month, when Tusk blamed “lyrical and in fact naïve Euro-enthusiastic visions of total integration” for “the strengthening of Euroskeptic moods” across the continent."

I'm off to put my feet up & enjoy several Rum & Blacks - stuff Doctors Orders :-)

Very interesting article, Sirius.

I realize that I, as a US citizen, really have no voice in this situation, but... I do have an opinion.

It seems to me (yes, my OPINION) that Europe might be better off under the old EEC than under the EU.

Keep the political power back in the national capitals, revert to the old national currencies, and just agree on free trade between the nations of Europe by treaty between the various nations of Europe.

It seems to me that this might be a better solution in light of the somewhat significant differences in the economic situation between the various European nations. Plus, it would somewhat get rid of what apparently is one European nation (Germany) dictating to the rest of the Continent.

Of course, this is just my opinion. The decision is up to, of course, the People in the various European nations what their nation finally does.

But then, I do admit to some level of bias in this. I also support the breakup of the USA (peacefully, at the ballot box) into a number of smaller, less powerful Nations as well. In my opinion, there is such a thing as one Nation becoming (for want of a better term) 'too big'.

I'm off to put my feet up & enjoy several Rum & Blacks - stuff Doctors Orders :-)

Don't forget to have a slice of toast with some Marmite on.... Sirius.

It seems to me that this might be a better solution in light of the somewhat significant differences in the economic situation between the various European nations. Plus, it would somewhat get rid of what apparently is one European nation (Germany) dictating to the rest of the Continent

They tried it with two wars now they are doing it another way !!!

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Life is what you make of it :-)

When i'm good i'm very good , but when i'm bad i'm shi#eloads better ;-) In't I " buttercups " p.m.s.l at authoritie !!;-)

Well as history has proven, "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" failed at an immense cost to Europe.

"Eine Sprache" as well!
I worked with the German company Siemens for a couple of years.
They said that the company offical language was english.
No. It was all German.
In one seminar about computers and IT I attended the excuse was that the topic have so many german terms:)
Yes several. Rechner, Daten ubertragen AKA DÜ that is the ENTER button and Tastature:)

But then, I do admit to some level of bias in this. I also support the breakup of the USA (peacefully, at the ballot box) into a number of smaller, less powerful Nations as well. In my opinion, there is such a thing as one Nation becoming (for want of a better term) 'too big'.

I agree with you here regarding the EU 'KW' as will all the BREXIT brigade too. I've read in the past about some US States wanting independence, is it possible, can it be made to work. Perhaps some time down the line we will be debating this issue here...going to be an interesting one.

But then, I do admit to some level of bias in this. I also support the breakup of the USA (peacefully, at the ballot box) into a number of smaller, less powerful Nations as well. In my opinion, there is such a thing as one Nation becoming (for want of a better term) 'too big'.

I agree with you here regarding the EU 'KW' as will all the BREXIT brigade too. I've read in the past about some US States wanting independence, is it possible, can it be made to work. Perhaps some time down the line we will be debating this issue here...going to be an interesting one.

Actually Texas, the Lone Star state, has a separist movement:)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_separatist_movements_in_North_America

I can't think that you folks need a Donald Trump
but it looks like he may do very well in Europe...

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