Do you think aliens use radio waves to communicate with each other?

Message boards : SETI@home Science : Do you think aliens use radio waves to communicate with each other?
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

Previous · 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · Next

AuthorMessage
Profile janneseti
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 14 Oct 09
Posts: 14106
Credit: 655,366
RAC: 1
Sweden
Message 1839600 - Posted: 2 Jan 2017, 13:04:29 UTC
Last modified: 2 Jan 2017, 13:16:42 UTC

Looks like communication (sending/getting information) is limited to the speed of light after all.
Superluminal communication is believed to be impossible because, in a Lorentz-invariant theory, it could be used to transmit information into the past. This contradicts causality and leads to logical paradoxes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superluminal_communication
ID: 1839600 · Report as offensive
Profile Chris SCrowdfunding Project Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 19 Nov 00
Posts: 40031
Credit: 34,711,117
RAC: 63,150
United Kingdom
Message 1839615 - Posted: 2 Jan 2017, 14:01:34 UTC - in response to Message 1839600.  

ID: 1839615 · Report as offensive
Profile River Song
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 30 Jul 15
Posts: 265
Credit: 1,248,584
RAC: 1,883
United States
Message 1839617 - Posted: 2 Jan 2017, 14:24:24 UTC - in response to Message 1839541.  

What I witnessed in 1952 in Cleveland,


I suspect that you were quite young then. I too seem to recall that on the streets of New York the older boys playing football would kick the ball up on the roof of the 5-and 6 story hi-rises on my grandmother's block and then crawl straight up the side of the building --hand over hand --to get the football back. Though this is a vivid memory i am sure that It was just an adolescent dream.


Well, in 1952 I was 14 years old. Is that "quite young?" Do I detect a bit of friendly sarcasm in that comment? I have no reason in the world to have "phonied up" my description of the event I experienced in Cleveland, Ohio in 1952. It is true, believe it or not. :)

Oh gosh? Boys crawled up the side of buildings to get a football back? Yoiks? Surely you jest, kind Sir? I would rather play with my dolly than a football. :) A football is a funny shaped thing that can't even roll like a ball should. The latter is a current day "technical observation." :)
River Song (aka Linda Latte on planet Earth)
"Happy I-Phone girl on the GO GO GO"
ID: 1839617 · Report as offensive
Profile William Rothamel
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Oct 06
Posts: 3335
Credit: 1,322,163
RAC: 0
United States
Message 1839622 - Posted: 2 Jan 2017, 15:54:27 UTC - in response to Message 1839617.  

Can You think of any other explanation for what you perceived on that day (Night?) that might explain the event in concrete, terrestrial terms ?

Was there a heavy cloud cover when you had this sighting ?
ID: 1839622 · Report as offensive
Profile River Song
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 30 Jul 15
Posts: 265
Credit: 1,248,584
RAC: 1,883
United States
Message 1839632 - Posted: 2 Jan 2017, 17:04:14 UTC - in response to Message 1839622.  
Last modified: 2 Jan 2017, 17:05:22 UTC

Can You think of any other explanation for what you perceived on that day (Night?) that might explain the event in concrete, terrestrial terms ?

Was there a heavy cloud cover when you had this sighting ?


That day, in 1952, in Cleveland, Ohio, at White City Beach, on the shores of Lake Erie, was a bright, very warm, and very sunny day, in the summer, and just past noon. No, I was NOT imagining anything, nor were the many many others along that long pier.

Sorry, the memory of that disc shaped craft is clear and bright in my memory. I can think of no other explanation for what actually happened. There is none. Fact is fact, like it or not; believe it or not.

I am puzzled tho by the fact there was no sound that we could hear; but then, it was about 600 yards away. I'm also puzzled by the "hovering" above the bath house? Why would it do THAT? The fact there was no "breaking of the sound barrier" sound when it accelerated means nothing. It just slowed down before it got to that speed.

Believe what you want, what happened was REAL.
River Song (aka Linda Latte on planet Earth)
"Happy I-Phone girl on the GO GO GO"
ID: 1839632 · Report as offensive
Profile Chris SCrowdfunding Project Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 19 Nov 00
Posts: 40031
Credit: 34,711,117
RAC: 63,150
United Kingdom
Message 1839633 - Posted: 2 Jan 2017, 17:15:29 UTC - in response to Message 1839632.  

Believe what you want, what happened was REAL.

In other words it was REAL to YOU, it may not have been so real to other people. Nobody doubts what you say you saw, but without corroborative statements from a reasonable number of other witnesses it simply cannot stand up to scrutiny.

All governments have files about this sort of thing. They are stamped "Unexplained - not known at this time" and filed away. In other words yes there are occurrences, confirmed by credible witnesses, that simply cannot be explained by the current laws of physics as we know them. That does not mean that they were extra-terrestrial in origin, although the temptation is to think so.
ID: 1839633 · Report as offensive
Profile Sparrow45
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 30 Nov 16
Posts: 47
Credit: 502,373
RAC: 1,777
United States
Message 1839645 - Posted: 2 Jan 2017, 17:56:12 UTC

Let's assume that some significant portion of sightings are, indeed, alien spacecraft. What are they doing? They don't care if we see them, obviously. But just as obviously, they don't want to talk to us. And if we include alien abductions and cattle mutations in this class of the "real thing", then we can't assume they're entirely benign or friendly. If they wanted to simply observe us, they could do that much more covertly. So again....What are they doing? They act like they're driving through a slum with the windows rolled up and the doors locked, taking a tour of the bad part of town. It really doesn't make much sense. But of course, the thing about aliens is that they're alien. So who knows?
“Upon opening the box, Schroedinger's raccoon will be observed in one of three possible states; alive, dead, or really, really pissed off.”
ID: 1839645 · Report as offensive
Michael Watson

Send message
Joined: 7 Feb 08
Posts: 937
Credit: 1,106,747
RAC: 1,409
Message 1839651 - Posted: 2 Jan 2017, 18:24:07 UTC - in response to Message 1839633.  
Last modified: 2 Jan 2017, 18:48:33 UTC

Reply to Chris S:

The notion of stones falling from the sky (Meteories) was once disbelieved, and even ridiculed, by science. This, despite many eyewitness accounts of this occurring. It was held that such things were impossible, according to the laws of physics. Maybe we should learn something from history.
ID: 1839651 · Report as offensive
Michael Watson

Send message
Joined: 7 Feb 08
Posts: 937
Credit: 1,106,747
RAC: 1,409
Message 1839666 - Posted: 2 Jan 2017, 18:44:39 UTC - in response to Message 1839645.  
Last modified: 2 Jan 2017, 18:49:17 UTC

Reply to Sparrow45:

The elusive demonstration of their presence could be part of a very prudent plan, on the part of advanced extraterrestrials. Swooping in and revealing themselves all at once could prove very disruptive, and demoralizing to human beings.

A gradual revealing of their existence would allow time for us to grow used to the idea that we are not the only, or the most technically advanced form of intelligent life on the scene.

It seems quite obvious to me that there are many humans who still reflexively fear others, even of their own species. How much more, then, would they fear the sudden advent of beings greatly different from themselves in appearance, and possessing superior technical powers?
ID: 1839666 · Report as offensive
Profile River Song
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 30 Jul 15
Posts: 265
Credit: 1,248,584
RAC: 1,883
United States
Message 1839667 - Posted: 2 Jan 2017, 18:48:01 UTC - in response to Message 1839645.  

Let's assume that some significant portion of sightings are, indeed, alien spacecraft. What are they doing? They don't care if we see them, obviously. But just as obviously, they don't want to talk to us. And if we include alien abductions and cattle mutations in this class of the "real thing", then we can't assume they're entirely benign or friendly. If they wanted to simply observe us, they could do that much more covertly. So again....What are they doing? They act like they're driving through a slum with the windows rolled up and the doors locked, taking a tour of the bad part of town. It really doesn't make much sense. But of course, the thing about aliens is that they're alien. So who knows?


"They act like they're driving through a slum with the windows rolled up and the doors locked, taking a tour of the bad part of town." Oh my gosh! What a good way to put it! You are SO right. :) I never thought of it like that. The "alien abductions" and "cattle mutilations" don't seem out of line. They are just trying to find out more about us.

Looking back now, to the time period between 1945 and the 1950's, when testing of atomic and hydrogen bombs was rampant by the USA and Russia, I really think THIS is what attracted them to visit us in numbers? Maybe aliens regard the ability to create nuclear weapons to be "the birth of intelligence," for better or for worse, and had to learn more about us?

However, there have been numerous reports of alien visitation thru-out history, just not a continuous "stream" that occurred between 1945 and the 1950's. Some of these visitations appear to have influenced some religions as the aliens were thought of as "gods" riding "chariots" in the sky.

Thank you for your thoughts on this! :)
River Song (aka Linda Latte on planet Earth)
"Happy I-Phone girl on the GO GO GO"
ID: 1839667 · Report as offensive
Profile Chris SCrowdfunding Project Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 19 Nov 00
Posts: 40031
Credit: 34,711,117
RAC: 63,150
United Kingdom
Message 1839683 - Posted: 2 Jan 2017, 20:14:25 UTC - in response to Message 1839651.  

It was held that such things were impossible, according to the laws of physics. Maybe we should learn something from history.

What we can learn from history is that at any one particular time happenings are judged by the level of science at the time. Einstein developed his theories of Relativity and Special Relativity 100 years ago. I would suggest that he would review those theories if he were still alive today, in the wake of the knowledge of modern science. I still think that things can travel faster than light, we just haven't discovered how to do that yet.

UFO's are exactly that unidentified flying objects. 99.99% likely to be a secret Airforce project. The 0.01% is filed away for later knowledge. The surge between 1945 and 1950 was simply due to the Nazi scientists taking their rocket knowledge to the USA after WWII. Roswell in 1947 was a crashed spy balloon but it suited the USA to promote the Alien rumours to thwart the Russians as to their real endeavours.
ID: 1839683 · Report as offensive
Profile River Song
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 30 Jul 15
Posts: 265
Credit: 1,248,584
RAC: 1,883
United States
Message 1839707 - Posted: 2 Jan 2017, 22:34:28 UTC - in response to Message 1839689.  

Is it possible you could "sum up" your thought in a short paragraph? I got a bit confused half way down. Thank you for the interesting links! :)
River Song (aka Linda Latte on planet Earth)
"Happy I-Phone girl on the GO GO GO"
ID: 1839707 · Report as offensive
Profile Sparrow45
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 30 Nov 16
Posts: 47
Credit: 502,373
RAC: 1,777
United States
Message 1839724 - Posted: 3 Jan 2017, 1:35:59 UTC - in response to Message 1839666.  

Reply to Sparrow45:

The elusive demonstration of their presence could be part of a very prudent plan, on the part of advanced extraterrestrials. Swooping in and revealing themselves all at once could prove very disruptive, and demoralizing to human beings.

A gradual revealing of their existence would allow time for us to grow used to the idea that we are not the only, or the most technically advanced form of intelligent life on the scene.

It seems quite obvious to me that there are many humans who still reflexively fear others, even of their own species. How much more, then, would they fear the sudden advent of beings greatly different from themselves in appearance, and possessing superior technical powers?


Perhaps this could be the case. We certainly know how awful the consequences of contact between disparate cultures can be just within our own species. Our attitudes about ET have changed over the last century or so. Some of us are actively looking for contact. The notion of alien life has become pandemic in popular culture. I doubt there's one person in 100, in the developed world at least, who would outright disregard the possibility of extraterrestrial life. If ET is doing a "gradual reveal" then my advice would be to pick up the pace a little. Overt contact and providing some information isn't the same as opening the flood gates to galactic culture. They could at least explain themselves. In fact, I'd say respect demands that much. Just driving through the neighborhood and staring out the car windows is pretty demeaning.
“Upon opening the box, Schroedinger's raccoon will be observed in one of three possible states; alive, dead, or really, really pissed off.”
ID: 1839724 · Report as offensive
Profile Sparrow45
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 30 Nov 16
Posts: 47
Credit: 502,373
RAC: 1,777
United States
Message 1839730 - Posted: 3 Jan 2017, 2:00:24 UTC

On the topic of UFO behavior, there's a short story titled "Those Eyes" by David Brin. The whole thing can be read here: http://www.davidbrin.com/fiction/thoseeyes.html

The central idea is that UFOs are actually manifestations of the fey....faeries. They've been driven from earth by our (human's) lack of belief and technology, and now reside on the moon. The UFO activity is just their way of carrying on with doing what they've always done. Do I actually believe this? Of course not. But it's at least a coherent explanation for UFO behavior.
“Upon opening the box, Schroedinger's raccoon will be observed in one of three possible states; alive, dead, or really, really pissed off.”
ID: 1839730 · Report as offensive
Profile Bob DeWoody
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 May 10
Posts: 2848
Credit: 1,215,344
RAC: 206
United States
Message 1839758 - Posted: 3 Jan 2017, 5:36:04 UTC

Perhaps the concept of "subspace" is a way that spacefaring aliens communicate with each other. Assuming that in subspace communication over vast distances is virtually instantaneous all you need is a portal between normal space and subspace. It worked in Babylon 5 that way,
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
ID: 1839758 · Report as offensive
Profile Chris SCrowdfunding Project Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 19 Nov 00
Posts: 40031
Credit: 34,711,117
RAC: 63,150
United Kingdom
Message 1839772 - Posted: 3 Jan 2017, 11:38:22 UTC - in response to Message 1839758.  

I already suggested that Bob! Message 1839568

I have to say that I am very sceptical about flying saucers. If they were as prolific as people suggest some time in the last 100 years one would have crashed somewhere (not Roswell!!) and been reverse engineered making mankind a lot further advanced than we are now.

For instance, look at what it takes to put a man on the moon, and bring him back. Look what it takes to make a trip to the ISS and back. We are many years away from something like the Enterprise orbiting Earth and their shuttle craft popping up and down. For this exercise I'll discount their transporter system.

My thinking behind this is that if a UFO is real, then it by default doesn't come from earth. Therefore Is it based in our Solar system even on a planet we haven't found yet? Or is it based in another star system somewhere, the nearest one being 4 LY away. Either way whoever or whatever controls them must have technology that we can only dream of, and are surprisingly a bit haphazard to say the least in exposing themselves then zapping off to avoid getting caught. Their technology would know that earthbound radars and satellites could track their performance as indeed they do.

I think that if UFO's exist they are likely to be remote controlled drones of some kind, I doubt their makers are inside them. A drone is expendable, a "person" isn't. In which case where is the mother ship?

I have no real answer to anal probes and cattle mutilations, other than to say that if they have interplanetary travel nailed down and even interstellar travel, then they would not need to be so crude to find out more about us. They would use whole body MRI scanners or more likely Bones diagnostic couches in Enterprise sick bay, maybe even what the Doctor used as a handheld in USS Voyager.

At the end of the day there is no conclusive evidence for any ET really is there, just a lot of anomalies and occurrences that we simply cannot explain. Plus of course the pseudo sci fi press that encourage it all to make a living. The possibilities are

There is no-one there
We are looking in the wrong place
We are using the wrong search tools
They don't want to be found.

Given the vastness of interstellar space it is likely that there are others out there somewhere, but so far away that neither of us will ever know that the other exists. Earth is 4.5 Billion years old, at best guess we believe the observable universe that we can detect is about 13.8 billion years old. WE are the teenagers on the block. It would be like putting a fish in the Atlantic at England and one at New York, and hoping that one day they might meet up!!
ID: 1839772 · Report as offensive
Michael Watson

Send message
Joined: 7 Feb 08
Posts: 937
Credit: 1,106,747
RAC: 1,409
Message 1839813 - Posted: 3 Jan 2017, 15:11:36 UTC - in response to Message 1839730.  

On the topic of UFO behavior, there's a short story titled "Those Eyes" by David Brin. The whole thing can be read here: http://www.davidbrin.com/fiction/thoseeyes.html

The central idea is that UFOs are actually manifestations of the fey....faeries. They've been driven from earth by our (human's) lack of belief and technology, and now reside on the moon. The UFO activity is just their way of carrying on with doing what they've always done. Do I actually believe this? Of course not. But it's at least a coherent explanation for UFO behavior.


Could be the other way around. An extraterrestrial presence distorted and re-interpreted by humans into faery folk, and the like. Some of the alleged behaviors of both are quite similar.
ID: 1839813 · Report as offensive
Michael Watson

Send message
Joined: 7 Feb 08
Posts: 937
Credit: 1,106,747
RAC: 1,409
Message 1839819 - Posted: 3 Jan 2017, 15:27:22 UTC - in response to Message 1839724.  

Reply to Sparrow45:

The elusive demonstration of their presence could be part of a very prudent plan, on the part of advanced extraterrestrials. Swooping in and revealing themselves all at once could prove very disruptive, and demoralizing to human beings.

A gradual revealing of their existence would allow time for us to grow used to the idea that we are not the only, or the most technically advanced form of intelligent life on the scene.

It seems quite obvious to me that there are many humans who still reflexively fear others, even of their own species. How much more, then, would they fear the sudden advent of beings greatly different from themselves in appearance, and possessing superior technical powers?


Perhaps this could be the case. We certainly know how awful the consequences of contact between disparate cultures can be just within our own species. Our attitudes about ET have changed over the last century or so. Some of us are actively looking for contact. The notion of alien life has become pandemic in popular culture. I doubt there's one person in 100, in the developed world at least, who would outright disregard the possibility of extraterrestrial life. If ET is doing a "gradual reveal" then my advice would be to pick up the pace a little. Overt contact and providing some information isn't the same as opening the flood gates to galactic culture. They could at least explain themselves. In fact, I'd say respect demands that much. Just driving through the neighborhood and staring out the car windows is pretty demeaning.


Visiting extraterrestrials will presumably have accumulated experience in contacting other species. I strongly suspect they would have a sounder idea of when they should openly present themselves to us, than would naive humans.

Perhaps the delay in open contact has more to do with our resurgent nativism at the moment; fear and loathing of the 'other', than with a supposed unwillingingness to show us due respect.
ID: 1839819 · Report as offensive
Profile River Song
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 30 Jul 15
Posts: 265
Credit: 1,248,584
RAC: 1,883
United States
Message 1839823 - Posted: 3 Jan 2017, 15:40:40 UTC

MEAT - A conversation overheard on sub-space radio, Channel 2845A

"They're made out of meat."
"Meat?"
"Meat. They're made out of meat."
"Meat?"
"There's no doubt about it. We picked several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, probed them all the way through. They're completely meat."
"That's impossible. What about the radio signals? The messages to the stars."
"They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don't come from them. The signals come from machines."
"So who made the machines? That's who we want to contact."
"They made the machines. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Meat made the machines."
"That's ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You're asking me to believe in sentient meat."
"I'm not asking you, I'm telling you. These creatures are the only sentient race in the sector and they're made out of meat."
"Maybe they're like the Orfolei. You know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage."
"Nope. They're born meat and they die meat. We studied them for several of their life spans, which didn't take too long. Do you have any idea the life span of meat?"
"Spare me. Okay, maybe they're only part meat. You know, like the Weddilei. A meat head with an electron plasma brain inside."
"Nope. We thought of that, since they do have meat heads like the Weddilei. But I told you, we probed them. They're meat all the way through."
"No brain?"
"Oh, there is a brain all right. It's just that the brain is made out of meat!"
"So... what does the thinking?"
"You're not understanding, are you? The brain does the thinking. The meat."
"Thinking meat! You're asking me to believe in thinking meat!"
"Yes, thinking meat! Conscious meat! Living meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal! Are you getting the picture?"
"Omigod. You're serious then. They're made out of meat."
"Finally, Yes. They are indeed made out meat. And they've been trying to get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years."
"So what does the meat have in mind?"
"First it wants to talk to us. Then I imagine it wants to explore the universe, contact other sentients, swap ideas and information. The usual."
"We're supposed to talk to meat?"
"That's the idea. That's the message they're sending out by radio. 'Hello. Anyone out there? Anyone home?' That sort of thing."
"They actually do talk, then. They use words, ideas, concepts?"
"Oh, yes. Except they do it with meat."
"I thought you just told me they used radio."
"They do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how when you slap or flap meat it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat."
"Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much. So what do you advise?"
"Officially or unofficially?"
"Both."
"Officially, we are required to contact, welcome, and log in any and all sentient races or multi-beings in the quadrant, without prejudice, fear, or favor. Unofficially, I advise that we erase the records and forget the whole thing."
"I was hoping you would say that."
"It seems harsh, but there is a limit. Do we really want to make contact with meat?"
"I agree one hundred percent. What's there to say?" `Hello, meat. How's it going?' But will this work? How many planets are we dealing with here?"
"Just one. They can travel to other planets in special meat containers, but they can't live on them. And being meat, they only travel through C space. Which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their ever making contact pretty slim. Infinitesimal, in fact."
"So we just pretend there's no one home in the universe."
"That's it."
"Cruel. But you said it yourself, who wants to meet meat? And the ones who have been aboard our vessels, the ones you have probed? You're sure they won't remember?"
"They'll be considered crackpots if they do. We went into their heads and smoothed out their meat so that we're just a dream to them."
"A dream to meat! How strangely appropriate, that we should be meat's dream."
"And we can mark this sector unoccupied."
"Good. Agreed, officially and unofficially. Case closed. Any others? Anyone interesting on that side of the galaxy?"
"Yes, a rather shy but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a class nine star in G445 zone. Was in contact two galactic rotations ago, wants to be friendly again."
"They always come around."
"And why not? Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the universe would be if one were all alone."


Stay here on Earth. It's the only planet with DARK CHOCOLATE !!
River Song (aka Linda Latte on planet Earth)
"Happy I-Phone girl on the GO GO GO"
ID: 1839823 · Report as offensive
Profile Sparrow45
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 30 Nov 16
Posts: 47
Credit: 502,373
RAC: 1,777
United States
Message 1839824 - Posted: 3 Jan 2017, 15:44:25 UTC - in response to Message 1839772.  

... I have to say that I am very sceptical about flying saucers. If they were as prolific as people suggest some time in the last 100 years one would have crashed somewhere (not Roswell!!) and been reverse engineered making mankind a lot further advanced than we are now.

... I think that if UFO's exist they are likely to be remote controlled drones of some kind, ...I have no real answer to anal probes and cattle mutilations, other than to say that if they have interplanetary travel nailed down and even interstellar travel, then they would not need to be so crude to find out more about us. They would use whole body MRI scanners or more likely Bones diagnostic couches in Enterprise sick bay, maybe even what the Doctor used as a handheld in USS Voyager. ...


I'm trying to imagine how far engineers and physicists from 1900 would get if they tried to reverse-engineer an iPhone or a laptop computer. Not very far, I think. To paraphrase Robert Heinlein, you can't build a railroad until it's time to railroad. You need the materials science and manufacturing infrastructure, not just knowledge of the tech. (And FWIW, no, I don't think the Roswell incident was a UFO crash, but it's fun to believe that!) And I agree that probes and crude dissections in the field aren't the way to study any sort of biology. Never mind the possibility of earning a lot of ill will from your subjects.
“Upon opening the box, Schroedinger's raccoon will be observed in one of three possible states; alive, dead, or really, really pissed off.”
ID: 1839824 · Report as offensive
Previous · 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · Next

Message boards : SETI@home Science : Do you think aliens use radio waves to communicate with each other?


 
©2017 University of California
 
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.