One thing we all need to understand about Co2 is things get real bad we do have a option that will reduce the Co2 in a mater of months however there bad side effects but they aren't going to effect humans just all life in the sea except microbes.

What is this last resort option Seeding the oceans with pharmaceutical grade Iron . It causes algae to grow so fast that it can reduce the Co2 very quickly.

1 square klm can remove 10,000 tons plus of Co2 every few days but don't quote me on the figures but I'm close .

We will not have a backup option with Hydrogen .

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For those who prefer a push bike.
YouTube - PodRide Demo v1,2

And you can Crowdfund at PodRide a practical and fun bicycle-car

That's cool man where can I get one , 60k range perfect . Add another 250 watt motor more battery's , best thing ever even in the rain your ok

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That's cool man where can I get one , 60k range perfect . Add another 250 watt motor more battery's , best thing ever even in the rain your ok

The crowdfunding link gives you details.

oh well not in production yet I can wait .

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When people don't know chemistry and are setting global policy ...........

And it's highschool chemistry...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_absorption_by_water#Atmospheric%20effects

Water vapor is a greenhouse gas in the Earth's atmosphere, responsible for 70% of the known absorption of incoming sunlight, particularly in the infrared region, and about 60% of the atmospheric absorption of thermal radiation by the Earth known as the greenhouse effect.

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/artificial-weather-revealed-post-9-11-flight-groundings

In the three days that followed the 9/11 attacks, when all commercial flights above the continental US were suddenly suspended, a veil was lifted on the profound, though until that point unconfirmed, effects that aviation-associated artificial clouds are having on our planetary environment.
...
First, it is important to point out that the observed post-9/11 elevation in temperature is not one-dimensional. While clouds, including aviation-associated contrails may lower temperature by reflecting solar radiation off the planet in what is known as the "albedo" effect, they may also raise temperature by blanketing trapped heat preventing its nighttime radiative dissipation.

Again, some propose the industrial scale release of water vapor, a GHG accounting for 60% of global warming, by waving their hands because it isn't CO2! This after experimental proof of water's ability to change global temperature.

Don't propose a fix that is worse than the disease!

Good links there thanks.

The easy fix for hydrogen vehicles if their water vapor exhaust might be a problem is simply to fit a condenser on their exhaust!


Easy...

Next?

All on our only one world,
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

When people don't know chemistry and are setting global policy ...........

And it's highschool chemistry...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_absorption_by_water#Atmospheric%20effects

Water vapor is a greenhouse gas in the Earth's atmosphere, responsible for 70% of the known absorption of incoming sunlight, particularly in the infrared region, and about 60% of the atmospheric absorption of thermal radiation by the Earth known as the greenhouse effect.

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/artificial-weather-revealed-post-9-11-flight-groundings

In the three days that followed the 9/11 attacks, when all commercial flights above the continental US were suddenly suspended, a veil was lifted on the profound, though until that point unconfirmed, effects that aviation-associated artificial clouds are having on our planetary environment.
...
First, it is important to point out that the observed post-9/11 elevation in temperature is not one-dimensional. While clouds, including aviation-associated contrails may lower temperature by reflecting solar radiation off the planet in what is known as the "albedo" effect, they may also raise temperature by blanketing trapped heat preventing its nighttime radiative dissipation.

Again, some propose the industrial scale release of water vapor, a GHG accounting for 60% of global warming, by waving their hands because it isn't CO2! This after experimental proof of water's ability to change global temperature.

Don't propose a fix that is worse than the disease!

Good links there thanks.
The easy fix for hydrogen vehicles if their water vapor exhaust might be a problem is simply to fit a condenser on their exhaust!
Easy...
Next?

All on our only one world,
Martin

The technology already exists.

A condensing steam locomotive differs from the usual closed cycle condensing steam engine, in that the function of the condenser is primarily either to recover water, or to avoid excessive emissions to the atmosphere.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condensing_steam_locomotive
I'm sure engineers could downsize this so it will work with cars as well.

The easy fix for hydrogen vehicles if their water vapor exhaust might be a problem is simply to fit a condenser on their exhaust!


Easy...

Next?

And drop that water on the hot pavement where it evaporates and causes the same problem. Oh also dragging all that extra weight around lowers the fuel mileage and increases the CO2 from the coal fired electric plant used to make the hydrogen.

Don't propose a fix that is worse than the disease!

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The easy fix for hydrogen vehicles if their water vapor exhaust might be a problem is simply to fit a condenser on their exhaust!


Easy...

Next?

And drop that water on the hot pavement where it evaporates and causes the same problem. Oh also dragging all that extra weight around lowers the fuel mileage and increases the CO2 from the coal fired electric plant used to make the hydrogen.

Don't propose a fix that is worse than the disease!

Drop that water on the hot pavement?
Why should you?
Better is to store the water when driving and then dispose it when you come to a refill station.

Coal fired electric plants to make the hydrogen is a very bad idea.
You loose about 30% of the energy content when making hydrogen that way.
So hydrogen has to be made with non GHG producing plants.
Here we have plenty of those:)
But very few electrical cars which I find odd.

How many of you really keep your car 100% road worthy 100% of the time ??

People are lazy when it comes to there cars.

The leaks from hydrogen tanks would be much higher than what methane is now and it brakes down after approx. 12 years to Co2

Hydrogen is dangerous even with fuel cells . battery Storage will all so help with some things some people have brought here , I mean Home Battery Storage .

People are what make it Dangerous not the Hydrogen itself and use . Time is the thing over time the cars break down , leaks , accidents . On a Industrial scale Hydrogen is not a good idea .

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Glenn IMO hydrogen is no more inherently dangerous than natural gas.

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Glenn IMO hydrogen is no more inherently dangerous than natural gas

Did you read the article in the link I put up.

Natural gas tight is or Air tight is not Hydrogen tight . You can smell natural gas you can't Hydrogen for fuel cells
Natural gas beaks down

Hydrogen does not

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Natural gas tight is or Air tight is not Hydrogen tight .
Yes the molecule is bigger, me thinks the size difference is trivial it the real world applications.
You can smell natural gas you can't.
Yes methane stinks.
Natural gas beaks down Hydrogen does not.
Of course not, it's an element not a compound. As an aside it is one of the major components of natural gas.

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Glenn IMO hydrogen is no more inherently dangerous than natural gas

Did you read the article in the link I put up.

Natural gas tight is or Air tight is not Hydrogen tight . You can smell natural gas you can't Hydrogen for fuel cells
Natural gas beaks down

Hydrogen does not

I don't think that car drivers really care about safety.
Especially when it comes to fuel.
If it's hydrogen or fossile fuel doesn't matter.
There are still MANY people dying on the roads every year.
Changing to hydrogen will not decrease or increase that fact.
I don't buy the argument that hydrogen should be more dangerous then other means to drive a car.
https://translate.google.se/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fteknikensvarld.se%2Flanderna-dar-flest-omkommer-i-trafiken-167259%2F&edit-text=

You can smell natural gas you can't.
Yes methane stinks.

Natural gas has a odour added to it and so does methane . Canary in a coal mine because you can't smell methane till your dead but the bird dies before it's deadly to humans .

Dad was a underground coal miner and around these parts they can have high methane pockets , dangerous ......

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People are what make it Dangerous not the Hydrogen itself and use . Time is the thing over time the cars break down , leaks , accidents . On a Industrial scale Hydrogen is not a good idea .

Unless you put a hydrogen tank in a building with a hydrogen tight roof a leak is safer with hydrogen than methane or petrol, hydrogen dispurses upwards into the atmosphere fast, both methane and petrol will pool at ground level and await a spark.

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Kevin

People are what make it Dangerous not the Hydrogen itself and use . Time is the thing over time the cars break down , leaks , accidents . On a Industrial scale Hydrogen is not a good idea .


Unless you put a hydrogen tank in a building with a hydrogen tight roof a leak is safer with hydrogen than methane or petrol, hydrogen dispurses upwards into the atmosphere fast, both methane and petrol will pool at ground level and await a spark.

Yep exactly

That's not the problem a explosion so much but the fact the Hydrogen is released into the atmosphere .

Shore will be right for 100 years but how many people will there be then and how much Hydrogen will we use and how much will be released .

You telling me it goes nowhere ? If it flots away it space then how quickly does it do that otherwise Hydrogen will continue to build up .

As you said the molicules are smaller and therefore Air tight is not Hydrogen tight .

Valves are made of what , especially high pressure ones .

You do need high quality components and lets face it that's not going to happen 100% of the time company's aren't above doing the wrong thing to save money

and then the fail rate 3500 psi canisters is F-ing dangerous man

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That's not the problem a explosion so much but the fact the Hydrogen is released into the atmosphere .

Shore will be right for 100 years but how many people will there be then and how much Hydrogen will we use and how much will be released .

You telling me it goes nowhere ? If it flots away it space then how quickly does it do that otherwise Hydrogen will continue to build up .

As you said the molicules are smaller and therefore Air tight is not Hydrogen tight .

Valves are made of what , especially high pressure ones .

You do need high quality components and lets face it that's not going to happen 100% of the time company's aren't above doing the wrong thing to save money

and then the fail rate 3500 psi canisters is F-ing dangerous man

Hydrogen in the atmosphere, there is probably a lot more hydrogen in the upper atmosphere than you would think, as it is the most common element in space our gravity must attract it all of the time.

3,500 psi, thats a bit low, the standard for car tanks is now 10,000 psi.

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Kevin

Hydrogen in the atmosphere, there is probably a lot more hydrogen in the upper atmosphere than you would think, as it is the most common element in space our gravity must attract it all of the time.

3,500 psi, thats a bit low, the standard for car tanks is now 10,000 psi.

Hydrogen, and Helium get stripped from Earth's Atmosphere continuously.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_escape
I imagine that quite a bit of the free Hydrogen in the Atmosphere get's recombined
with Oxygen, into water vapour, via conventional lightening, and TLEs.

Also a great deal of research into containment of hydrogen in composite materials,
limiting rate of release of hydrogen in a catastrophic event tank rupture.

What few people realize ...
1 gallon of gasoline produces ~1 gallon of liquid water in combustion at STP.
By Mass, Hydrogen contains 3 times the energy that most common fuels contain, and 5 times the energy of ethanol.
1 gallon gasoline = 5.7 lbs. 1 gallon water = 8.3 lbs.
1 lb of Hydrogen when com-busted with O2 produces 9 lbs of water.
1.9 lbs of Hydrogen equals the energy in 1 gallon of gasoline, and when com-busted would generate 17.1 lbs of water/vapour.
So a Hydrogen economy would increase H2O vapour output by a factor (17.1/8.3)=2.06
We already have a Hydrogen/Carbon economy based on fossil-fuels.
The Carbon in coal, or any hydrocarbon, would not burn but for the Hydrogen bound to the Carbon.
With the rate of scientific/engineering change the next stop is Energy from Fusion.
Batteries, Hydrogen fuel, probably every energy store will be visited before Google invents the Micro-Fusion generator.

full disclosure: i have no shares in Google, or Hydrogen

Burning Hydrogen form a solid form is burning it .

Once again that's not the problem it's when it's in a gas that you get a problem , freezing it is even more energy needed to freeze

Yes it much more efficient but dangerous when used like we use petrol

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Solid hydrogen, that's below 14 degree's K.

And isn't it like other things, such as paraffin wax the solid, that go through two phase changes before they burn, as in a candle. It's the paraffin gas that burns and produces the light and heat.