Anyway the US & UK do have ugly trade agreements in place and the proposed Trans Pacific Trade Agreement is well...

Oops. Wrong ocean. You'd think I'd know the difference ;)

Pacific is already in place:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Pacific_Partnership

But I obviously meant Atlantic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_Trade_and_Investment_Partnership

Interestingly...

The only ones speaking against this are:

Socialist Bernie Sanders and Mega-Capitalist Donald Trump.

Well actually no, it makes perfect sense. Neither are on strict corporate payroll.

And I don't know where Farage get's his money from but he's one of the few people on this side of the Atlantic right now that actually understands the meaning of the word "undemocratic".

I agree with you Alex the TPP and TAP are bad .

Mexico and Canada I think have all ready had trouble with there's .

You Can't blame one Country even if we wish to there all in it .

ATO asks for Inquiry into Panama Papers .....ATO = Australian Taxation Office (IRS)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-13/ato-to-call-for-investigation-into-panama-papers-scandal/7321800

This will be interesting .....

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US corporations have $1.4tn hidden in tax havens, claims Oxfam report

US corporate giants such as Apple, Walmart and General Electric have stashed $1.4tn (£980bn) in tax havens, despite receiving trillions of dollars in taxpayer support, according to a report by anti-poverty charity Oxfam.
Tax havens don’t need to be reformed. They should be outlawed
Richard Brooks
The Panama Papers demonstrate that for all the fine words about transparency on tax, the world’s kleptocrats are still getting away with it

The sum, larger than the economic output of Russia, South Korea and Spain, is held in an “opaque and secretive network” of 1,608 subsidiaries based offshore, said Oxfam.

The charity’s analysis of the financial affairs of the 50 biggest US corporations comes amid intense scrutiny of tax havens following the leak of the Panama Papers.

And the charity said its report, entitled Broken at the Top was a further illustration of “massive systematic abuse” of the global tax system.

Wow. Thread exploded. Apologies for previous posts being out-of-sync again... was doing other stuff while posting.

CLYDE, I honestly can't remember. The best I can remember is:

- strong unions

Unfortunately it's a subject I know nothing about. But I do have 2 quick pieces of advice, off the top of my head:

a) create a thread about it.

b) do us all a favor, quit being a sissy, come out of your closet and just vote for Sanders 'cause that's what you really want to do :D

Hi Alex... I was getting tired of (you know who);

Yes, you are correct regarding Unions.

Unlike believing you can created a Great System, putting Great People in Power. Who will not become corrupt (good luck):

It appears that the only real 'solution' to Corrupt Centralized Political/Economic Power: Are other competing Corrupt Powers.

In the case of the Working Class, and studying the History of National Unions:

National Unions were able to increase the Standard of Living of their workers. Since every dollar spent, goes around 7 times. This also increases the Standard of Living for most.

Therefore: Corrupt International Unions. Are the best remedy, and least dangerous solution, regarding Corrupt International Capitalist's.

In short... Corrupt International Unions, competing with Corrupt International Capitalist's = A practical, and least dangerous, 'solution'.

This will take decades, and violence. As it did with national unions.

RE: Bernie

He is the only Ethical and Moral Candidate.

As I have stated, in past postings:

Would not be a bad president. IF... The Republicans Control the Congress.

As for the last sentence, if some think they've been obstructionist during Obama's presidency, just imagine how much more so they'll be to a democratic socialist.

As for unions, I think so many people have bought into the lines about unions since the 80s as the union-busting has continued, namely under Scott Walker in Wisconsin.

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

As for unions, I think so many people have bought into the lines about unions since the 80s as the union-busting has continued, namely under Scott Walker in Wisconsin.

Unions never did anything good for this country.
They only sought to do what was good for the unions.
And most of what they won was good mostly for the union higher ups, not for the workers they pretended to represent.

I happen to believe that if workers were honest and willing to do an honest day's work for an honest day's pay, the rest is moot.
I understand that perhaps back in the '40s this may not have been true.
But nowadays, the union mindset is truly just a front for money raising by the unions to further their political ambitions.

And that, initially, was not what unions were about.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

I happen to believe that if workers were honest and willing to do an honest day's work for an honest day's pay, the rest is moot.

Mark if what you say is true then how do you explain the decline in the middle class income relative to the countries GDP?

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Unions never did anything good for this country.

Six day workweek, no overtime, no workers compensation insurance and no OSHA. Where does Mark sign up?

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Unions never did anything good for this country.

Six day workweek, no overtime, no workers compensation insurance and no OSHA. Where does Mark sign up?

Where did?

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

I happen to believe that if workers were honest and willing to do an honest day's work for an honest day's pay, the rest is moot.

Mark if what you say is true then how do you explain the decline in the middle class income relative to the countries GDP?

betreger,

that is easy to explain. Increasing Globalism in the economy. LOTS of manufacturing jobs has been... exported out of the USA, primarily because the unions got too greedy with their demands and because of excessive Government regulations increased the cost of making the stuff here to the point that it is cheaper to make the stuff elsewhere and then ship it back here.

It has been said that 'The rich are getting richer, and the poor are getting poorer'. This turns out not to be the case.

Yes, the rich are getting richer... but the poor are getting richer too... just not the poor over here. Elsewhere, where the jobs got exported to, the poor can earn a heck of a lot more money working in the factories than they could doing subsistence-level agriculture... Just like what happened here when we industrialized.

You all are just looking in the wrong place for the poor that are getting richer.

Don't like it? Well, there is one way to reverse it... Ending Globalism.

that is easy to explain. Increasing Globalism in the economy. LOTS of manufacturing jobs has been... exported out of the USA, primarily because the unions got too greedy with their demands and because of excessive Government regulations increased the cost of making the stuff here to the point that it is cheaper to make the stuff elsewhere and then ship it back here.

Kong you are wrong . The jobs went to China because they don't have any unions and they don't get paid very much .

Even without Unions your companies can't compete with $5 a week wages or even $100 per week .

Globalisation yes Unions no they had nothing to do with it .

In fact if Governments had listened to unions they would not have let it happen as Unions where the first to warn about what Free trade and Globalisation would do when all the player don't have the same rules to follow .

You B/S is just that more Republican Union basing just like Universal health care is only a Communist thing

Total B/S

Come down under and you'll see how Unions work and they have done plenty for our way of life and considering we have a better quality of life than you lot do it shows what happens when you only listen to greedy people that don't have the country as there first concern

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A example of hypocrisy of the Republicans .

Here in Australia the government has now agreed to extend the government scheme to protect worker entitlement should a company go broke or into receivership .

The liberals come out say we are looking after workers rights and the local member even sheds some crocodile tears over it saying it's a very bad day for Townsville and the 750 workers of the Qld Nickel and Cobalt Smelter .

Not more than 1 hour after the announcement happened on the news a senior Labour front bencher comes out and says

while the lib's announce this good news they forget to mention it was the LABOUR PARTY that over 4 months ago was calling for the Lib's to include this factory in the scheme to give the worker confidence they won't become homeless for not paying there mortgages.

They also forget to mention that in the senate is a bill to restrict the scheme to only 16 weeks witch would mean many of the workers that have been there for a long time and would be payed up to a full 12 months with a redundancy would not get there full entitlements of there agreed pay rates otherwise called there award

So the crocodile tears where just that he needs to tell the people and explain why this bill is in the senate and what would have happened to the workers if it had been passed .

You Americans wonder why your country is so F-ed up wake up without Unions you would all still be working for nothing in a contract that is basically make you all slaves

Guess who owns this Smelter !!

Now you know why he is now a Senator (but not for much longer)

What Party was he in before quitting it and forming his own ??

His name is Clive Palmer look him up

who brought the government scheme in , Labour and why ??

Not Unions but they did ask foe something like it but still, why is what you to ask .

I'll give you a clue Capitalist don't care about your country and hell they don't even think off them self's and shoot them self's in the foot .

Kong please cut out the Union Ball please you would not have any of the things you do now if it was not for Unions .

PS. This has only just happened like in the last 48hours .

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Unions were once very necessary to the well being of the workers they represented. My father was a member of the Railroad Carmens Union (AFL-CIO?), and it was needed in the 30's and late 40's (it wasn't active during WWII due to the War Emergency).

However in the 50's the Unions became more about the well being of the corrupt bosses(Hoffa is a prime but not the only example), and various 'benevolent groups' within the Unions, not the workers. It became an Oligarchy (as do all human organizations eventually). As Kong has stated the greed of those corrupt bosses drove the good paying manufacturing jobs(sometimes overly so for the value received) to foreign countries. This was abetted by the increasing taxation alleged to support those displaced by the economy but actually ending up in the hands of the corrupt politicians or diverted to other 'more urgent' needs.

Unions have the exact same problem that Washington does, too many hands out, too many been there for too long.

Samuel Clemons said "Politicians(or leaders) are like diapers; they need to be changed often and for the same reason." The parenthesis are mine.

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"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

Yes, the rich are getting richer... but the poor are getting richer too... just not the poor over here

Major that is a true statement, however the issue goes deeper than that. The next question is how to equitably distribute this newly created wealth.
I recommend you read a bit Nick Hannauer's work. The man is justifiably concerned about pitchforks and the like. It seems to me the Donald and the Bern are symptoms of great dissatisfaction.
Possibly pitch forks are next?

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JaundicedEye and Kong I do take exception to Union basing , yes there are some bad people that become high up in the Union they are not above corruption but the difference is they always get busted not so much a corrupt polly or Capitalist and even when a Capitalist is charged for a white collar crime they get a slap on the rist not the Unionist he will go to jail and proberly for a longer time than a normal person whom is not a Unionist .

AS my last post about what has happened here in the last 48 hrs proves you don NOT elect rich people as they always have a conflict of interest .

Your country would have bounced back much faster if the Capitalist had not tried to and in many cases Screw there workers by dropping pay rates during the GFC and you had a minimum wage.

Yes I am aware that some places did pay way to much to there workers like a tire factory I know about in your country but who is to blame for that the Union or the company for being to generous . Your Unions don't have the protections like ours do so I can only think the company and not the Union was to blame for overpaying them and once again it comes back to voting for your Union organiser .

Learn what your VOTE means in government and any other situation that you are asked to vote and don't treat it as a inconvenience it's to important to be brushed aside .

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You all are just looking in the wrong place for the poor that are getting richer.

Major as an aside do you really believe that most of this newly created wealth should go to fewer and fewer hands? That is what the numbers show what is happening.

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How the U.S. became one of the world’s biggest tax havens

The single-story brick building at 1209 North Orange St. in downtown Wilmington, Del., looks bland and innocuous. But the building, home to the Corporation Trust Company, has an intriguing claim to fame. In the last few years, it has served as the registered address for more than 250,000 businesses, giving companies around the world access to Delaware’s business-friendly laws.

During his 2008 presidential campaign, Barack Obama criticized Caribbean tax havens. He mentioned one building in the Cayman Islands that is the registered home of more than 12,000 U.S.-based corporations, saying, “That’s either the biggest building in the world or the biggest tax scam on record.” But as the example of 1209 North Orange St. demonstrates, the same activity is going on in President Obama’s backyard.

The next question is how to equitably distribute this newly created wealth.

Again I quote Thomas Sowell “Since this is an era when many people are concerned about ‘fairness’ and ‘social justice,’ what is your ‘fair share’ of what someone else has worked for?”
http://rightwingnews.com/quotes/the-25-best-quotes-from-thomas-sowell/

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"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

The next question is how to equitably distribute this newly created wealth.
Again I quote Thomas Sowell “Since this is an era when many people are concerned about ‘fairness’ and ‘social justice,’ what is your ‘fair share’ of what someone else has worked for?”

This is the sort of thing that gets people rilled up and confused AKA: wedge politics

No body wants other peoples money they worked hard for only that they pay there fair amount of tax and as the Panama papers show there trying to dodge paying there fair share of tax.

No need to redistribute someone else's money just pay the tax your are required and the rest will take care of it's self .

Or in other words the market will fix it ,right !

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The next question is how to equitably distribute this newly created wealth.

Again I quote Thomas Sowell “Since this is an era when many people are concerned about ‘fairness’ and ‘social justice,’ what is your ‘fair share’ of what someone else has worked for?”
http://rightwingnews.com/quotes/the-25-best-quotes-from-thomas-sowell/

Wrong question.

Right question: How much are you permitted to take from your government?

Your government that locks up criminals so you can keep stuff, builds roads so you can have commerce, makes easements so you can have running water and all the hundreds of other functions that you use to accumulate your wealth. How much of their work is your fair share?

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The next question is how to equitably distribute this newly created wealth.

Again I quote Thomas Sowell “Since this is an era when many people are concerned about ‘fairness’ and ‘social justice,’ what is your ‘fair share’ of what someone else has worked for?”
http://rightwingnews.com/quotes/the-25-best-quotes-from-thomas-sowell/

When jobs are traded for cheap overseas manufacturing what is equitable compensation for the displaced workers? This is not about fairness but the survival of society. If this is not addressed properly the "pitchforks" will a follow and it will require a very strong police state to control.
It is true that many from the bottom can climb the ladder of sucess but the ladder needs to be wider.

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