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Message 1773845 - Posted: 25 Mar 2016, 3:48:50 UTC - in response to Message 1773830.  
Last modified: 25 Mar 2016, 3:49:44 UTC

. . Scanning over those threads I notice you mentioned variations is clocking. This reminded me of a funny thing I observed. When running a mix of CPU and GPU tasks the timer in BOINC manager was running 33% faster for the GPU task than for the 3 MB tasks. After restarting, all four WU's kicked off together. The timers for the MBs stayed in sync but the timer the GPU task kept moving further and further ahead. After observing this I watched it for a while at any given point the elapsed time for the GPU task was 33% ahead of the MD tasks. That made wonder how that timing is performed. I presumed that it would be sampling the system clock, but now I assume it is running timer routines for itself.

Are you saying that the elapsed time for the GPU task was running faster than the CPU takes? So after 3 minutes of elapsed time for the CPU tasks the GPU task displayed 4 minutes?

The times and numbers displayed in BOINC Manager while tasks are running have been known to be a bit wonky, but I don't think I've heard of that kind of situation.
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Message 1773955 - Posted: 25 Mar 2016, 16:45:13 UTC - in response to Message 1773845.  

. . Scanning over those threads I notice you mentioned variations is clocking. This reminded me of a funny thing I observed. When running a mix of CPU and GPU tasks the timer in BOINC manager was running 33% faster for the GPU task than for the 3 MB tasks. After restarting, all four WU's kicked off together. The timers for the MBs stayed in sync but the timer the GPU task kept moving further and further ahead. After observing this I watched it for a while at any given point the elapsed time for the GPU task was 33% ahead of the MD tasks. That made wonder how that timing is performed. I presumed that it would be sampling the system clock, but now I assume it is running timer routines for itself.

Are you saying that the elapsed time for the GPU task was running faster than the CPU takes? So after 3 minutes of elapsed time for the CPU tasks the GPU task displayed 4 minutes?

The times and numbers displayed in BOINC Manager while tasks are running have been known to be a bit wonky, but I don't think I've heard of that kind of situation.



. . Yep, that is what is happening. And I have just done a synchronised start again and the results are identical ... the MB elapsed timer shows 17 mins 3 secs and the GPU shows 22mins 45 secs. It seems most strange. The MB timer seems accurate (close to system clock time elapsed) but the GPU times which match the time figures for the completed job are exagerated by about 33%. So they are not taking 1hour 35mins but actually 1 hour 12 mins. Still, a strange thing.
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Message 1773965 - Posted: 25 Mar 2016, 17:14:28 UTC - in response to Message 1773830.  

. . Scanning over those threads I notice you mentioned variations is clocking. This reminded me of a funny thing I observed. When running a mix of CPU and GPU tasks the timer in BOINC manager was running 33% faster for the GPU task than for the 3 MB tasks. After restarting, all four WU's kicked off together. The timers for the MBs stayed in sync but the timer the GPU task kept moving further and further ahead. After observing this I watched it for a while at any given point the elapsed time for the GPU task was 33% ahead of the MD tasks. That made wonder how that timing is performed. I presumed that it would be sampling the system clock, but now I assume it is running timer routines for itself.



. . Update:

. . I have to correct myself. I have just timed them with the stopwatch in my phone and it is the GPU elapsed timer that is correct, the MB(CPU) timers are running slow by 25%. Which means they are not taking 4 hours to complete but 5.3 or so. OK no more mixed CPU/GPU crunching on this machine.
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Message 1773974 - Posted: 25 Mar 2016, 17:53:31 UTC - in response to Message 1773965.  

You should try BoincTasks It is pretty good at reporting run times, and CPU usage. Much better that a stopwatch.

When I make changes I try to do it at the same time of day, say 6PM or 00 UTC for me, then it's easier to compare by just look at the times for a certain date.

http://efmer.com/b/boinctasks
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Message 1774012 - Posted: 25 Mar 2016, 21:10:27 UTC - in response to Message 1773974.  
Last modified: 25 Mar 2016, 21:34:50 UTC

You should try BoincTasks It is pretty good at reporting run times, and CPU usage. Much better that a stopwatch.

When I make changes I try to do it at the same time of day, say 6PM or 00 UTC for me, then it's easier to compare by just look at the times for a certain date.

http://efmer.com/b/boinctasks



. . Thanks for that, I believe someone else mentioned that in an earlier message but when I tried to find it, so I could download it, I could not find the message again. That link is very helpful thank you.

. . On the point of making changes, I tend to do them when the opportunity presents, then I have to remember what time that was in UTC (11 hours ahead here at the moment). I will be d/l'ing that right away.
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Message 1774265 - Posted: 26 Mar 2016, 22:15:09 UTC - in response to Message 1773845.  
Last modified: 26 Mar 2016, 22:15:49 UTC

. . Just for the record I ran a test with a cpu/gpu mix again, this time with SSE3 and the results were even worse than with an AVX mix. The CPU tasks blew out to almost 4 hours each compared to the 3:30 or so that I was getting running stock with the GPU (pre-Lunatics).

. . I am absolutely convinced now, everything people said about using the integrated GPU has been borne out. If you want to cripple the performance of your machine as a number cruncher than run crunching tasks on the GPU. If on the other hand you want efficiency and higher outputs, run only CPU tasks with AVX.

. . I am getting through over 70 WU's a day now compared to about 30 or so with the cpu/gpu mix.

. . I should have read these message boards when I first began to crunch tasks on this machine. :(
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Message 1774416 - Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 11:28:01 UTC

I just reinstalled Lunatics on this laptop and the v0.44 installer still doesn't give me the option for SSE2 or SSE3 MB.



CPU-Z shows that this CPU does support both:



If there even is an MB executable that will support this CPU, is there a link to it anywhere? I don't see anything for it at the Lunatics download page nor could I register there to ask. Thanks.
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Message 1774423 - Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 12:24:33 UTC - in response to Message 1774416.  
Last modified: 27 Mar 2016, 12:42:49 UTC

That's very odd - also odd that it's enabled SSE2 for AP, but not SSE3. That looks like a bug in my code: hang on while I check it out, and if that doesn't work, I'll dig out the SSE3 apps for manual installation.

Any tecchies know of any peculiarities with the Yonah core?

Edit - ah, you're using the 64-bit installer (see title bar) on a 32-bit OS/CPU. I wonder if that might make a difference?
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Message 1774425 - Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 12:41:32 UTC
Last modified: 27 Mar 2016, 12:42:03 UTC

I`m not very familiar with Intel CPU`s but SSE3 and AVX version can be downloaded from my website for manual installation.


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Message 1774426 - Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 12:47:51 UTC - in response to Message 1774423.  
Last modified: 27 Mar 2016, 12:56:40 UTC

That's very odd - also odd that it's enabled SSE2 for AP, but not SSE3. That looks like a bug in my code: hang on while I check it out, and if that doesn't work, I'll dig out the SSE3 apps for manual installation.


Thanks for the fast reply... it's been like this for at least two, possibly three or four revisions of the Lunatics installer on this machine. Just finally decided to do something about it. :^)

I`m not very familiar with Intel CPU`s but SSE3 and AVX version can be downloaded from my website for manual installation.


Ah right, forgot about Mike's World... thanks. I'll mute my audio and then go there... lol.
Edit: I see only SSE for x86... SSE2 and 3 are both x64 only. Are there 32- bit versions?
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Message 1774427 - Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 12:51:27 UTC - in response to Message 1774426.  

See my edit to the last post - please try the 32-bit installer first.
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Message 1774430 - Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 13:11:00 UTC - in response to Message 1774427.  
Last modified: 27 Mar 2016, 13:12:51 UTC

See my edit to the last post - please try the 32-bit installer first.


Apologies... I really have to avoid writing these things up in the wee hours before I've been sufficiently caffeinated... lol.

I uploaded the correct screenshot replacing the existing one. The problem (which as noted has been ongoing for a few Lunatics versions) is that that it allows only SSE for both MB and AP though both SSE2 and SSE3 are available.

Recap:


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Message 1774431 - Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 13:14:28 UTC
Last modified: 27 Mar 2016, 13:21:34 UTC

OK, I think I may have found the answer in the source code of the x264 project that the plug-in I'm using is based on.

247 /* 6/9 (pentium-m "banias"), 6/13 (pentium-m "dothan"), and 6/14 (core1 "yonah")
248 * theoretically support sse2, but it's significantly slower than mmx for
249 * almost all of x264's functions, so let's just pretend they don't. */

- so the detection doesn't work on Yonah (or banias/dothan)

Before I think up a way of kludging that, would you mind doing a speed test on the Yonah, comparing both SSE2 and SSE3 with the stock app (both exist for 32-bit - I'll make up packs for you, suitable for the Main project (the ones I got for the installer were configured for Beta testing).

Edit - do you have experience of using the Lunatics 'knabench' - I can perhaps make up a barebones copy for this specific test?
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Message 1774433 - Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 13:14:45 UTC
Last modified: 27 Mar 2016, 13:16:34 UTC

SSE2

SSE3


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Message 1774435 - Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 13:28:19 UTC - in response to Message 1774433.  

SSE2

SSE3

Both of those have

<version_num> 802

in the AIstub, and additionally the SSE3 pack has a duplicated

<platform> windows_intelx86

app_version, which BOINC objects to.

Those are the sort of misconfigurations I was referring to when I said the ones I got were configured for Beta testing.
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Message 1774436 - Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 13:34:19 UTC - in response to Message 1774431.  

Before I think up a way of kludging that, would you mind doing a speed test on the Yonah, comparing both SSE2 and SSE3 with the stock app (both exist for 32-bit - I'll make up packs for you, suitable for the Main project (the ones I got for the installer were configured for Beta testing).

Edit - do you have experience of using the Lunatics 'knabench' - I can perhaps make up a barebones copy for this specific test?


Sure... would be happy to test. I've used that for testing (for raistmer) but it was scripted so I didn't need to do much but copypaste. I'll PM you with contact info so you can send files.
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Message 1774438 - Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 13:37:43 UTC - in response to Message 1774436.  

Sure... would be happy to test. I've used that for testing (for raistmer) but it was scripted so I didn't need to do much but copypaste. I'll PM you with contact info so you can send files.

I was thinking of using Raistmer's model for the standalone test pack, and I'll also send you copies of Mike's packages re-configured for the main project. But I'll need to top up my own caffeine levels again first...
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Message 1774809 - Posted: 28 Mar 2016, 20:53:53 UTC - in response to Message 1774431.  

OK, I think I may have found the answer in the source code of the x264 project that the plug-in I'm using is based on.

247 /* 6/9 (pentium-m "banias"), 6/13 (pentium-m "dothan"), and 6/14 (core1 "yonah")
248 * theoretically support sse2, but it's significantly slower than mmx for
249 * almost all of x264's functions, so let's just pretend they don't. */

- so the detection doesn't work on Yonah (or banias/dothan)

Before I think up a way of kludging that, ...

You may just let user to override the detection by any of:
- checkbox in installer
- cmdline switch e.g. -test or -override_CPU or -NoCPUdetect or ...
- the same switch in some .ini file
 


- ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)
 
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Message 1774821 - Posted: 28 Mar 2016, 21:21:37 UTC - in response to Message 1774809.  

You may just let user to override the detection by any of:
- checkbox in installer
- cmdline switch e.g. -test or -override_CPU or -NoCPUdetect or ...
- the same switch in some .ini file

I already use an .ini file for setting a test mode, to verify that the correct files are deployed in response to user selections without modifying a working installation. That would have the benefit of being persistent between runs, and even releases.

But I'm waiting to hear back from Mr. Kevvy - the benchtest pack has been on his FTP server since earlier this afternoon, but I've advised him to let it run overnight so that each of the various app/AR cases run under comparable conditions. Let's see what that reveals about the capability of his Yonah.

At this stage, I don't think I can get the CPU codename directly. I could use

CPUDesc to get ARCH=dd LEVEL=dd
HwInfo to GetCpuNameAndSpeed

- they might do. Or I could try re-compiling the existing CPUFeatures from source minus that pesky 'pretend'.
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Message 1774868 - Posted: 29 Mar 2016, 1:57:33 UTC - in response to Message 1773974.  
Last modified: 29 Mar 2016, 2:10:59 UTC

. . Thanks for the suggestion to use BOINC Tasks but, unless you want to control multiple computers from one, all if offers over BOINC Manager is the history function, which is nice, but only shows the same time information as BOINC manager.

. . I don't think I will be running it permanently.
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