We need vaccinations and boosters throughout our lives- About Whooping Cough

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bobby
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Message 1769207 - Posted: 3 Mar 2016, 10:22:26 UTC - in response to Message 1769086.  

more misinformation

Couldn't put it better myself. Still no links to support your misinformed views? Still dismissing the evidence stacked against them? Conflating the business of bad pharma with the science of vaccination leaves you with bad science.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1769236 - Posted: 3 Mar 2016, 14:55:05 UTC - in response to Message 1769160.  

I could take your logic and apply to homelessness and people on welfare.

buddy that is why we have a civil society. The primitive tribes that did not have a social network did not survive. The ones that did survive recognized that they were all in the same boat together.

I think you have that wrong. The tribes that survived, the slave owner(s) [feudal lord] made choices [social network] to preserve their capital generating resources (slaves).

You are just being coy Gary.
Berti did say "Primitive Tribes".
I doubt that there was much -evolution- happening during the time of slavery.

And just when was "the time of slavery?"
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Message 1773170 - Posted: 22 Mar 2016, 2:13:41 UTC - in response to Message 1769207.  

more misinformation

Couldn't put it better myself. Still no links to support your misinformed views? Still dismissing the evidence stacked against them? Conflating the business of bad pharma with the science of vaccination leaves you with bad science.


Next time Bobby you may wish to Quote the whole sentence as the first part of that post says

Kong you do not need Flu shots every year only if the Flu has mutated and that happens on average every 2-5 years or longer


And it was misinformation You do not need shots every year only if said virus MUTATES ask your local Doc if you don't believe someone whom as another said I don't have any medical training at all .

Guess that means my Senior first Aid Cert means nothing and reading and studying to help my wife pass her nurse exams also means I know nothing about medicine after all reading medical books and then testing her meant I learnt nothing .

So to the big mouth why don't you tell us all what medical training or expereance you have as I've actually worked in hospitals full time and as a volunteer hold a senior first Aid cert and 9 years with a wife that I had to help study . yep I don't know jack about medicine
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Message 1773171 - Posted: 22 Mar 2016, 2:31:39 UTC

You want proof Bobby well if you can't explain why so many kids are allergic to all sorts of things even Peanut butter these days then there is the proof that to many to quick is bad .

Live in a bubble all your life and then someone lets you out what would happen Bobby do you know . here is a clue ......R.I.P
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Message 1773317 - Posted: 22 Mar 2016, 22:50:18 UTC - in response to Message 1773170.  

more misinformation

Couldn't put it better myself. Still no links to support your misinformed views? Still dismissing the evidence stacked against them? Conflating the business of bad pharma with the science of vaccination leaves you with bad science.


Next time Bobby you may wish to Quote the whole sentence as the first part of that post says

Kong you do not need Flu shots every year only if the Flu has mutated and that happens on average every 2-5 years or longer

And it was misinformation.
[snip]

Thank you for the admission, I'm glad that we agree. I previously chose to edit out the misinformation as I saw no need to repeat it.

Your knowledge of flu immunization, strains and mutation rates did not appear to be current. To understand the efficacy or otherwise of a flu shot requires a knowledge of the mutation rates of the various flu viruses, the number of strains, and the frequency of infections of the various strains in any particular year. Shots provide immunization against a number of strains, not all, and all strains are mutating, thus a shot one year may provide little to no protection the next.

Your claims of medical knowledge are great, though the former medical doctor who claimed there was a link between MMR vaccination and autism likely had more qualifications than you. He was wrong, are you sure you're not too?

FWIW, making claims to expert knowledge in a forum such as this seems to me to be futile, anybody can do it and there's little that can be done to verify the claim. That's why I prefer links to sources of information that can be independently verified. As has been noted in the past the plural of anecdote is not data, and your claims now are at best anecdotal evidence.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1773320 - Posted: 22 Mar 2016, 22:58:41 UTC - in response to Message 1773171.  

You want proof Bobby well if you can't explain why so many kids are allergic to all sorts of things even Peanut butter these days then there is the proof that to many to quick is bad .

Live in a bubble all your life and then someone lets you out what would happen Bobby do you know . here is a clue ......R.I.P

Your proof appears to amount to "It has to be something right? Why not this something?".

DO you know how many factors are changing over time? DO you know which factors are significant when it comes to allergies? Do you know whether immunization is one of the significant factors? If you do, how? Tell the CDC and other organizations, they need to know and update their recommendations to medical professionals.

Alternatively read my sig, google it, read the book and others by the same author.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1773325 - Posted: 22 Mar 2016, 23:12:00 UTC - in response to Message 1773317.  

Bobby I'm not a expert but I think I know and understand it far better than most .

The biggest problem with immunisations is misinformation like stating you need shoots every year you don't you ask your Doctor as you said you need to know infection rates and stuff well I let my Doc do that and check myself as even Doctors are not always up to date .

You can't tell me that Tetanus shoots are necessary when they are ONLY needed with c sections and certain other complications during berth but now we give all kids it ???

There are problems that need to be looked at with the policy of vaccinations and there effects like allergy's and possibly Autism .
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Message 1773388 - Posted: 23 Mar 2016, 6:48:41 UTC - in response to Message 1773325.  

Bobby I'm not a expert but I think I know and understand it far better than most .

The biggest problem with immunisations is misinformation like stating you need shoots every year you don't you ask your Doctor as you said you need to know infection rates and stuff well I let my Doc do that and check myself as even Doctors are not always up to date .

You can't tell me that Tetanus shoots are necessary when they are ONLY needed with c sections and certain other complications during berth but now we give all kids it ???

There are problems that need to be looked at with the policy of vaccinations and there effects like allergy's and possibly Autism .

Sorry but you are dead wrong about Tetanus. It lives in the soil, And in dust and manure. It enters the skin via a cut or puncture wound. Also called lockjaw, it is very rare in the US where most everyone are vaccinated. And those who do get were not vaccinated. Every ten years you should have the shot.

As for myself I get the shot every ten years. Why ask to die from a disease that can be prevented?
[/quote]

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Message 1773390 - Posted: 23 Mar 2016, 7:16:16 UTC - in response to Message 1773388.  

Bobby I'm not a expert but I think I know and understand it far better than most .

The biggest problem with immunisations is misinformation like stating you need shoots every year you don't you ask your Doctor as you said you need to know infection rates and stuff well I let my Doc do that and check myself as even Doctors are not always up to date .

You can't tell me that Tetanus shoots are necessary when they are ONLY needed with c sections and certain other complications during berth but now we give all kids it ???

There are problems that need to be looked at with the policy of vaccinations and there effects like allergy's and possibly Autism .

Sorry but you are dead wrong about Tetanus. It lives in the soil, And in dust and manure. It enters the skin via a cut or puncture wound. Also called lockjaw, it is very rare in the US where most everyone are vaccinated. And those who do get were not vaccinated. Every ten years you should have the shot.

As for myself I get the shot every ten years. Why ask to die from a disease that can be prevented?

+1

Cheers.
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Message 1773479 - Posted: 23 Mar 2016, 15:24:30 UTC - in response to Message 1773325.  

Bobby I'm not a expert but I think I know and understand it far better than most .

The biggest problem with immunisations is misinformation like stating you need shoots every year you don't you ask your Doctor as you said you need to know infection rates and stuff well I let my Doc do that and check myself as even Doctors are not always up to date .

[...]

Where did I state a person needs shots every year? I argued the misinformation was your view comment that such shots are not needed every year; and that a better understanding of the efficacy of shots was required. I certainly did not argue against consulting a Doctor (the author of the books I mentioned happens to be one). What do you check when verifying the recommendation of your Doctor to have a flu shot? In the US, Doctors will typically follow the current advice and guidance of the CDC, which says "there are a lot of reasons to get a flu vaccine each year" (source).

And once again I cut out the rest of your post as I have no desire to repeat your outlandishly wrong comment about autism.

Which is it "I'm not an expert" or "I've actually worked in hospitals full time and as a volunteer hold a senior first Aid cert and 9 years with a wife that I had to help study . yep I don't know jack about medicine"? Your comments about your experiences suggest that you have some expertise, though some other comments you make suggest otherwise. I make no claims to expertise in this area, where there are matters of fact to be established, my preference is to refer to good sources of information that are independently verifiable.

Here's some of the search results I'd hoped you'd find:

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that
Bad Science
Bad Pharma: How Drug Companies Mislead Doctors and Harm Patients
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1773493 - Posted: 23 Mar 2016, 16:10:37 UTC - in response to Message 1768799.  

However where your logic fails, where you and your family are protected presumably.

Unless you are a small infant, or immunocompromised, such as on cancer treatment. Don't those people matter?

I could take your logic and apply to homelessness and people on welfare.

For according to you someone who refuses to work will incur expenses on the rest of the population.

You see when you remove personal responsibility by socializing decision through the state you create the problems you try to solve.

The problem is if someone is sick you apply medicine to solve it. You are trying to solve the problem that someone chooses to not take the medicine by scolding free choice.

Are you sure you're from Canada?

We have laws in place to prevent transgression towards the citizen. If I had permission from the state to have you hand over your savings so I may spread it among the homeless and told you I would pay that back with future earnings of these new helped citizens.

The point of socialism to is spread the burden so one person doesn't have to hand over their savings. Most Canadians are quite happy to hand over something to help others. Have you seen how we've welcomed the Syrian refugees?

Would you want some guarantee of that repayment? What if I said you can't come after me if it did not work b/c the state created a law that prevents that.

You see the problem here? Everyone has a choice and when you start taking that choice from others it has a tenancy of biting you back.

Small children and sick people don't have a choice, so it seems only right to protect them from those that think their choice is more important.

/dropMike/

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Message 1773783 - Posted: 24 Mar 2016, 21:54:32 UTC - in response to Message 1773388.  

Bobby I'm not a expert but I think I know and understand it far better than most .

The biggest problem with immunisations is misinformation like stating you need shoots every year you don't you ask your Doctor as you said you need to know infection rates and stuff well I let my Doc do that and check myself as even Doctors are not always up to date .

You can't tell me that Tetanus shoots are necessary when they are ONLY needed with c sections and certain other complications during berth but now we give all kids it ???

There are problems that need to be looked at with the policy of vaccinations and there effects like allergy's and possibly Autism .

Sorry but you are dead wrong about Tetanus. It lives in the soil, And in dust and manure. It enters the skin via a cut or puncture wound. Also called lockjaw, it is very rare in the US where most everyone are vaccinated. And those who do get were not vaccinated. Every ten years you should have the shot.

As for myself I get the shot every ten years. Why ask to die from a disease that can be prevented?


I am not wrong . I know this to be fact from watching a story about it Tetanus is not needed , and has been introduced only in the last 10 years or so before that it was given to baby's if they had been born by C-section and as a precaution to any nicks from the procedure .

Most people are given it when you cut yourself . But to say you always need it is scare tactics I haven't had one for years.

A hospital is spose to be sterile where a woman has her child and so are the instruments so the chance of getting a infection from Tetanus is very low anyway and I quote from a doctor during the show saying "Tetanus is not needed "

also this "the policy of vaccinations is being hijacked by drug company's"

Remember Tetanus is a bacteria and antibiotics are becoming less effective because we have over used them so I have to question is it good to now do the same with Tetanus shoots and use them when there is no or such a low risk of infection it's dangerous to then start handing it out to everyone regardless of weather they actually need it .

Most get staph infections not lockjaw anyway
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Message 1773798 - Posted: 24 Mar 2016, 23:10:17 UTC - in response to Message 1773783.  

I am not wrong . I know this to be fact from watching a story about it Tetanus is not needed , and has been introduced only in the last 10 years or so before that it was given to baby's if they had been born by C-section and as a precaution to any nicks from the procedure .

Most people are given it when you cut yourself . But to say you always need it is scare tactics I haven't had one for years.

A hospital is spose to be sterile where a woman has her child and so are the instruments so the chance of getting a infection from Tetanus is very low anyway and I quote from a doctor during the show saying "Tetanus is not needed "

also this "the policy of vaccinations is being hijacked by drug company's"

Remember Tetanus is a bacteria and antibiotics are becoming less effective because we have over used them so I have to question is it good to now do the same with Tetanus shoots and use them when there is no or such a low risk of infection it's dangerous to then start handing it out to everyone regardless of weather they actually need it .

Most get staph infections not lockjaw anyway

Here's some data on tetanus, where's yours? Some story you watched? Got any more details?

Here's some more data:
Without treatment, tetanus can be fatal. Vaccination is the best way to protect against tetanus.

(source)

Time to take your own advice and consult a doctor. You are clearly in error about tetanus, there's been a vaccine for it since 1930, and the last significant change was in 1990s, well before your "10 years" (source).
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1773807 - Posted: 24 Mar 2016, 23:54:39 UTC - in response to Message 1773798.  
Last modified: 24 Mar 2016, 23:56:10 UTC

Bobby i'll use your source to explain what I mean about misinformation and scare tactics .

if you read the last source you put up it says this .

Neonatal tetanus (NT) is a form of generalized tetanus
that occurs in newborn infants. Neonatal tetanus occurs in
infants born without protective passive immunity, because the mother is not immune. It usually occurs through
infection of the unhealed umbilical stump, particularly when
the stump is cut with an unsterile instrument. Neonatal
tetanus is common in some developing countries but very
rare in the United StatesWorld Health Organization


The facts

The scare gossip tactic

(WHO) estimates that in 2010, 58,000 newborns died from
NT, a 93% reduction from the situation in the late 1980s.


3rd world Country's

So I ask why are we still giving it to all newborns .

link for when it was added to vaccines about 1/2 way down you'll see

ops edit forgot the link

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_schedule
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Message 1773811 - Posted: 25 Mar 2016, 0:26:39 UTC

And I still say the increase in occurrence of allergy's may be what is causing the Autism so looking at the vaccine to se a link wont show up look at he ones that have a reaction and see ,even if it's rare .The reaction may cause it but the vaccines also have a part or cause and then a effect so not entirely guilt free to me

The question is weather it's the amount of vaccine's given are causing the initial problem undeveloped immune systems AKA the boy in the bubble effect

get a vaccine if your need to and your risk is high but not otherwise

Kids don't get a choice and it seems even parents don't . (Yes I know there's a lot who wont )

I don't say don't I say be informed and know the risk to you and your kids .

And always check with a second Doctor and do your own research

DOCTORS are not always informed or good there humans and have there own problems so can and often do have BAD day's .
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Message 1773812 - Posted: 25 Mar 2016, 0:26:40 UTC - in response to Message 1773807.  

Bobby i'll use your source to explain what I mean about misinformation and scare tactics .

if you read the last source you put up it says this .

Neonatal tetanus (NT) is a form of generalized tetanus
that occurs in newborn infants. Neonatal tetanus occurs in
infants born without protective passive immunity, because the mother is not immune. It usually occurs through
infection of the unhealed umbilical stump, particularly when
the stump is cut with an unsterile instrument. Neonatal
tetanus is common in some developing countries but very
rare in the United StatesWorld Health Organization


The facts

The scare gossip tactic

(WHO) estimates that in 2010, 58,000 newborns died from
NT, a 93% reduction from the situation in the late 1980s.


3rd world Country's

So I ask why are we still giving it to all newborns .

link for when it was added to vaccines about 1/2 way down you'll see

ops edit forgot the link

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_schedule

Why would the mother have passed on passive immunity to tetanus infections, it wouldn't be because she'd been vaccinated would it? How long does passive immunity last in an infant? You should be asking these and many other questions before reaching a conclusion that vaccinations are unnecessary.

Don't ask me why infants are given the vaccination, ask your doctor. My research, and those of others here, strongly suggests you are wrong, not only in your beliefs about vaccinations, but also in your interpretation of the available data. You should talk it over with a medical expert whose opinion you value.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1773815 - Posted: 25 Mar 2016, 0:49:43 UTC - in response to Message 1773812.  

How long does passive immunity last in an infant?
You should be asking these and many other questions


I is !, I is !

It usually occurs through
infection of the unhealed umbilical stump, particularly when
the stump is cut with an unsterile instrument
you can also add c section as cause of infection

why would a woman need passive immunity to pass on when a hospital is sterile and so are all the instruments ...


Overkill and drug company's getting there mula from all them extra scrypts
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Message 1773874 - Posted: 25 Mar 2016, 7:46:59 UTC - in response to Message 1773815.  

How long does passive immunity last in an infant?
You should be asking these and many other questions


I is !, I is !

It usually occurs through
infection of the unhealed umbilical stump, particularly when
the stump is cut with an unsterile instrument
you can also add c section as cause of infection

why would a woman need passive immunity to pass on when a hospital is sterile and so are all the instruments ...


Overkill and drug company's getting there mula from all them extra scrypts

A hospital is sterile? Is that why mersa is so prevalent in them. I had an Aunt die from that being in a hospital.
[/quote]

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Message 1773909 - Posted: 25 Mar 2016, 13:49:01 UTC - in response to Message 1773874.  

A hospital is sterile?
Says how much he knows very succinctly.
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Message 1773954 - Posted: 25 Mar 2016, 16:42:01 UTC - in response to Message 1773812.  
Last modified: 25 Mar 2016, 16:44:54 UTC

Bobby i'll use your source to explain what I mean about misinformation and scare tactics .

if you read the last source you put up it says this .

Neonatal tetanus (NT) is a form of generalized tetanus
that occurs in newborn infants. Neonatal tetanus occurs in
infants born without protective passive immunity, because the mother is not immune. It usually occurs through
infection of the unhealed umbilical stump, particularly when
the stump is cut with an unsterile instrument. Neonatal
tetanus is common in some developing countries but very
rare in the United StatesWorld Health Organization


The facts

The scare gossip tactic

(WHO) estimates that in 2010, 58,000 newborns died from
NT, a 93% reduction from the situation in the late 1980s.


3rd world Country's

So I ask why are we still giving it to all newborns .

link for when it was added to vaccines about 1/2 way down you'll see

ops edit forgot the link

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_schedule

Why would the mother have passed on passive immunity to tetanus infections, it wouldn't be because she'd been vaccinated would it? How long does passive immunity last in an infant? You should be asking these and many other questions before reaching a conclusion that vaccinations are unnecessary.

Don't ask me why infants are given the vaccination, ask your doctor. My research, and those of others here, strongly suggests you are wrong, not only in your beliefs about vaccinations, but also in your interpretation of the available data. You should talk it over with a medical expert whose opinion you value.

Are they actually giving Tetanus injections to new born babies? They never gave it to any of mine. If they are it might be a US thing or a new thing. I've never heard of it.

As to hospitals being sterile, they certainly are not. I nearly died from an infection caught in hospital when I was giving birth to my first born.

EDIT: I see by your link that they don't give it to newborns. They give it 2 months. That should mean they are protected by the time they are crawling which makes sense.
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